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13th October 2022, 21:16 | #3081 |
I have detailed files
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As I mentioned before - the baseline sample size for that graph is far too small because of the paradigm shift in the environment from February 2020 onwards. Pull it back 10-20 years and lets have a look. But even then, the orchards are different.
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13th October 2022, 22:13 | #3082 |
Raptus regaliter
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If I got vaccinated, boosted, and a mild dose of Covid (true story) and in the subsequent years I develop myocarditis, was it the vaccine or covid that caused it?
This is largely a rhetorical question btw. |
13th October 2022, 22:38 | #3083 |
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I've no doubt said this before, but it's worth restating. A fundamental part health science is finding robust ways of making decisions where we know we can't know. Where not acting is still an action.
This is important because when we look at our practices over time, we can see certain behaviours are more effective than others. We can develop processes and practices that are most likely to be effective and least likely to cause more harm. While still living in a world of uncertainty.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
14th October 2022, 01:00 | #3084 | |
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StN, fair enough. Environment did change, and definitely agree it's hard to get a good measure. Still, we calibrated public health to avoid COVID at all costs, and the end result is more sickness from all causes, and more COVID. So we didn't even achieve that.
More Britons than ever are out of work due to long-term sickness https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/10...term-sickness/ the long tail. sidbo, if you're older than 40 your chances of myocarditis from disease is slim to none. If you're younger than 40 (male) the background rate of myocarditis is ~10:100,000, and if you inject mRNA you add 3:15,000 to that. Multisystemic Cellular Tropism of SARS-CoV-2 in Autopsies of COVID-19 Patients https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394956/ Quote:
but that study isn't fair for myocarditis risk because all patients were older than 55, and half of them were obese. So it's fair to say their immune system packed it in long ago. LS, What you describe sounds ideal. Like, too good to be true kind of ideal. I have no doubt policies were intended to cause least harm, and many people met in boardrooms coming up with great sounding plans. But my god who cares what the intention was when it produced such woeful outcomes. I wish not acting was an option made freely available to me. And that if I chose to do nothing I wouldn't have to weigh up losing friends, family over some stupid scandal about who does or doesn't transmit disease. I'm good now, out for blood etc etc, but it hasn't been easy. Discrimination is a bitch.
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14th October 2022, 08:27 | #3085 |
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High rates of Long COVID-19 around the world are negatively affecting healthcare systems and economies.
Current research shows that vaccination seemed to reduce the likelihood of long COVID in people who had been infected by 15 to 50 percent.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. Last edited by fixed_truth : 14th October 2022 at 08:30. |
14th October 2022, 08:30 | #3086 | |
Raptus regaliter
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I'm out. |
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14th October 2022, 09:20 | #3087 |
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I know I'm guilty of it at times too, but this appears to be pages and pages of confirmation bias.
Minds are already made up, and the pool of objective facts are going to be plucked for post content when one is found that confirms existing beliefs.
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ |
14th October 2022, 11:10 | #3088 | |||
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Show me the research. I will read it. More than half of Britons suffering from long Covid might not actually have it https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...actually-have/ Quote:
Mental health of Adolescents in the Pandemic: Long-COVID19 or Long-Pandemic Syndrome? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...1257037v1.full Quote:
self-diagnosing with Long-COVID is like wearing a mood bracelet and thinking the colour means something.
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14th October 2022, 11:12 | #3089 | |
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14th October 2022, 12:44 | #3090 |
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The impact of stress on physical health is well measured and tested.
How have you controlled for long term mass-stress impact on population health in all of your graphs. Stress not only shuts down digestive function reducing nutrition, it weakens the immune system significantly and depletes the body of minerals. It is a VERY real factor in health - and god knows not just the stress of the virus, but the stress of the jabs, all the wanking on about rights being usurped, the lockdowns, the economic impacts. There is plenty of reasons for chronic stress. |
14th October 2022, 13:49 | #3091 |
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I agree with everything you're saying. It wouldn't be a control, but rather a contributing factor. In "peace-time" there was plenty of rhetoric about how important mental health is. Public health threw that all out the window. No comity, just tribe 1 vs tribe 2.
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but what would I know? |
14th October 2022, 14:20 | #3092 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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The health impact I'm most interested in is psychological. What happens to the minds of children who, for two critical years, didn't get to see human faces?
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14th October 2022, 14:53 | #3093 |
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The first couple of hurdles to that kind of research would be identifying how much children actually missed out on seeing faces, and then whether there would be more appropriate research that could be done.
After all, Mum and Dad aren't wearing a mask to kiss their kids goodnight. And it's those primary attachment figures that matter most in the earliest years. Given the state of change in society right now, there's a great volume of impacts on children we could be studying. So why would we study that in particular with our finite resources? It absolutely might be the best thing to study, but there's a good deal of work getting to the point where you can demonstrate this. I guess we're really only concerned how rich kids were impacted. After all we know a great deal about the devastating consequences of childhood deprivation, but we're largely indifferent to the volume of it in our communities.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
14th October 2022, 17:54 | #3094 | |
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So you can't use those graphs as any kind of evidence. You can't even go for likelihood given lack of alternative explanations - because there are. It's just correlation rather than causation. |
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15th October 2022, 08:42 | #3095 |
Raptus regaliter
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https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...22.951314/full
"This is the first systematic review and meta-analysis and the largest study to date of acute myocarditis after SARS-CoV-2 vaccination or infection that estimate the risk ratio of myocarditis due to SARS-CoV-2 infection vs. COVID-19 vaccination. We found that the risk of myocarditis increased by a factor of 2 and 15 after vaccination and infection, respectively. This translates into more than a 7-fold higher risk in the infection group compared to the vaccination group. Among the persons with myocarditis in the vaccinated group, 61% (IQR: 39–87%) were men. Younger populations demonstrated an increased risk of myocarditis after receiving the COVID-19 vaccination. Nevertheless, the risk of hospitalization and death was low. This review is important as there is much hesitancy in the general population of receiving the COVID-19 vaccine given its serious adverse effects." |
15th October 2022, 09:51 | #3096 |
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So it's the prisoner's dilemma.
Volunteer to get 2x, or risk getting either nothing or 15x.
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ |
15th October 2022, 10:35 | #3097 |
Raptus regaliter
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Well, volunteer to get nothing or 2 x, or do nothing to get nothing or 15 x
But there's still a question for me WRT these and similar studies is what I alluded to above, where do you put the people that got vaccinated and covid and develop myocarditis? How do you even track that? |
16th October 2022, 14:58 | #3098 | |
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Thank you.
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Infection (vaccinated or not) the RR is 15 (vs uninfected). I'm not seeing unvaccinated infection myocarditis rates vs vaccinated infection myocarditis rates in this study. Vaccination the RR is 2 (vs unvaccinated). (which corresponds with the Florida findings (84% increase)
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16th October 2022, 16:05 | #3099 |
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also, it's not 0 or 2x.
You have a baseline chance of myocarditis and the RELATIVE risk ratio is 2:1 (getting vaccinated) or 15:1 (getting infected). in ABSOLUTE numbers baseline might be 0.001% and getting vaccinated kicks that up to 0.002 You can play the same game with vaccine effectiveness. Say it is RELATIVE 90% effective at stopping you getting symptoms / going to hospital. in ABSOLUTE numbers your initial risk may have been 0.002%, vaccine bumped that to 0.001%. Of course, I've played enough Diablo to know a 0.001 PROC isn't to be sneezed at.
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but what would I know? Last edited by Nich : 16th October 2022 at 16:09. |
17th October 2022, 14:34 | #3100 | |
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https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...10.13.512134v1
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Translation: -Omicron is wayyy more contagious than Wuhan strain, we know Omicron Spike protein is a major factor -We used gain-of-function to splice Omicron S gene into Wuhan strain. -Our newly invented virus completely bypasses any vaccine immunity -Out newly invented virus increases mortality rate by 80% -Turns out it's not just virus Spike that determines deadliness of virus Yay science! What fascinating findings. Here's hoping this one doesn't escape the lab too.
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17th October 2022, 15:02 | #3101 | |
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17th October 2022, 19:46 | #3102 |
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Hey Nich, DrTitus
Get in line boys! Vaccines to Treat Cancer Possible by 2030, Say BioNTech Founders |
17th October 2022, 23:32 | #3103 |
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hah! I'll wait until they test it on 8 mice. That is if drug testing and clinical trials are actually still required. Maybe there'll be a cancer "emergency" and everyone simply MUST get it.
Related, Moderna are getting in on it all too with their post-heart attack mRNA drug. It's a bit on the nose really. When I first learned of mRNA (From Peter Diamandis, Ray Kurtzweil, et al) these were the first applications dreamed up by the people researching it. It all sounded so good back then. But now, I see it's less research and more just inject and see what happens. Count me out. I'm sure one day an mRNA drug will pass Phase III clinical trials, but we're not there yet.
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but what would I know? |
17th October 2022, 23:51 | #3104 |
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Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel Announces New mRNA Shot to Treat Heart Muscle After a Heart Attack
https://rumble.com/v1nd8dg-moderna-c...muscle-af.html
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but what would I know? |
18th October 2022, 12:25 | #3105 | |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
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18th October 2022, 14:01 | #3106 |
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Lol, so triggered.
(and yes I can see the jest) |
19th October 2022, 15:56 | #3107 | ||
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Gain of function never stopped or even slowed down, EcoHealth Alliance still gets funding. The next pandemic is literally a lab leak away.
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20th October 2022, 00:53 | #3108 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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20th October 2022, 01:10 | #3109 | |
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I stand corrected. It's worse than what I said.
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20th October 2022, 01:13 | #3110 |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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Gentlemen, start your vindaloo
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
20th October 2022, 01:19 | #3111 | ||
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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20th October 2022, 01:41 | #3112 |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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It's not peer reviewed, so by the standards set forth by this community we can learn absolutely zero from this and consider it worthless.
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
20th October 2022, 01:50 | #3113 |
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hah. Regardless of the soundness of their findings, we can learn one crucial thing: These psychopaths are continuing to do gain of function. When they gaslit us for years that they WEREN'T doing it.
That they've invented something they say is slightly less infectious than Omicron, and slightly less deadly than Wuhan strain should be terrifying. One other thing to take away is: Vaccinating against S-protein alone never was robust protection from full virus payload.
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but what would I know? Last edited by Nich : 20th October 2022 at 01:53. |
20th October 2022, 11:40 | #3114 |
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20th October 2022, 11:49 | #3115 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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The Guardian:
Australia’s Covid lockdown rules found to have lacked fairness and compassion Review led by Peter Shergold finds some lockdowns and border closures were not necessary and schools should have remained open https://www.theguardian.com/australi...cessary-report |
20th October 2022, 11:56 | #3116 | |
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20th October 2022, 13:02 | #3117 |
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I wouldn't want people to think I'm a conspiracy theorist.
...but I think we'd need a whole new section in the Forums for that.
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20th October 2022, 13:38 | #3118 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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I'LL DO IT JUST WATCH ME
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20th October 2022, 15:25 | #3119 |
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It'd be just me and DrT going deeper and deeper trying to scare eachother.
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20th October 2022, 15:45 | #3120 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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That's what you want us to think.
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