South Canterbury Finance metathread

[MrTTTT]

fucken farmers. they moan all the time. shit give me a piece of land 1/10th the size of yours and i'll be happy.

[CCS]

Jail that Hubbard cunt and his wife, tbh.

[Ab]

Newsflash farmers, your 10 million dollar farm ain't worth 10 million dollars.

[Deadmeat]

The Government's $1.78 billion payout to South Canterbury investors is more than it spends each year on police or the ACC.
...
Tuesday's payment equals $405 for every man, woman and child in New Zealand. Spending on police is $361 a person and on the ACC $285.

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Preference shareholders who put in $100 million would get nothing and Southbury Corporation - Allan Hubbard's investment vehicle - is also likely to miss out. But the Crown's $1.6 billion payout to 35,000 depositors will include a $350 million payment to NZX-listed bondholders.

Mint Asset Management's Shane Solly said it was outrageous that some investors had been able to buy the bonds at a discount last week only to have them paid out yesterday.

"Those bonds were trading at quite deep discounts. Those people that paid 70c are [now getting a] dollar-something return."

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So we can afford to let these people realise a nearly 50% yeild in a matter of weeks, yet we can't give teachers flu shots?

[Lightspeed]

Yeah, wtf? Labour better fucking use this bullshit come election year.

[Juju]

The government should get a decent chunk of this money back once it sells the assets? yes/no?

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by Deadmeat

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.

So we can afford to let these people realise a nearly 50% yeild in a matter of weeks, yet we can't give teachers flu shots?

Or even offer them a cost of living increase.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Juju

The government should get a decent chunk of this money back once it sells the assets? yes/no?

It looks like about half to 2/3's of it back. Which means it's only costing $150-200 per person.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Yeah, wtf? Labour better fucking use this bullshit come election year.

Labour wouldn't have any credibility left. This so called party of the average mums and dads managed, over 3 terms in government, to do absolutely nothing but encourage speculative property "investment" and ignored about every single fucking recommendation on tightening up securities laws and the finance company sector.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by cyc

Labour wouldn't have any credibility left. This so called party of the average mums and dads managed, over 3 terms in government, to do absolutely nothing but encourage speculative property "investment" and ignored about every single fucking recommendation on tightening up securities laws and the finance company sector.

It's true, I worked in the Companies Office during their reign and spent a lot of time thinking "wtf why aren't they regulating shit?" during that time.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Cynos

It's true, I worked in the Companies Office during their reign and spent a lot of time thinking "wtf why aren't they regulating shit?" during that time.

Well, when Lianne Dalziel is the Commerce Minister, you know you're in trouble.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by cyc

Labour wouldn't have any credibility left. This so called party of the average mums and dads managed, over 3 terms in government, to do absolutely nothing but encourage speculative property "investment" and ignored about every single fucking recommendation on tightening up securities laws and the finance company sector.

I doubt you're wrong, but I still think Labour should use this to whip up some indignant rage amongst us proles to get elected next term.

[Saladin]

Labour is just as tainted by this.

Basically it boils down to a choice between Kang and Kodos.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by cyc

Well, when Lianne Dalziel is the Commerce Minister, you know you're in trouble.

Which was fucking terrible, as her electorate office covered Aranui, which was infested with third tier finance providers charging some predatory frigging rates and charges and they refused to regulate the bottom feeders at all.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Cynos

Which was fucking terrible, as her electorate office covered Aranui, which was infested with third tier finance providers charging some predatory frigging rates and charges and they refused to regulate the bottom feeders at all.

NZ is one of the few civilised countries on earth that do not have prohibitions against predatory interest rates. I remember walking on Willis St in Wellington one time I was down there a couple of years ago and on a side street there was a billboard for one of those payday lenders. It had something like "Low interest rate! 7% only*" Below there was a VERY small fine print saying "7% per week"! At that point I had no doubt whatsoever that NZ is 50 years behind the rest of the world in financial regulation and consumer protection.

[Lightspeed]

But it's such a valuable service to PIs and Westies! They need to be able to borrow that money to support the custom mags and marijuanna industries!

[Juju]

I'm not so up to the game with financial regulation, but is National doing any better this term in implementing some sort of regulation regime or roadmap?

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I doubt you're wrong, but I still think Labour should use this to whip up some indignant rage amongst us proles to get elected next term.

Yeah good luck with that.

Mr Goff said the company's fate was "sealed by the Government's failure to get a proper economic recovery".

Boy that Phil Goff sure has a way with words, don't he? I can feel the rage ragening through my raging rage. YEAH MOTHERFUCKER! IF THE GOVERNMENT HADN'T FAILED TO GET a proper economic rec.. zzzzzzzz

[Lightspeed]

Is it a fair assessment to say neither party is in a position to make much progress on this?

My reasoning is National is in the pockets of the people who make money of these schemes and Labour is under the thumb of those who use/are exploited by these schemes.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Juju

I'm not so up to the game with financial regulation, but is National doing any better this term in implementing some sort of regulation regime or roadmap?

They are. SLIGHTLY. Both parties are in truth pretty pathetic.

[Ab]

As Golden Teapot once put it,

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

NZ has a hands-off head-in-the-sand approach to regulation of financial institutions. Spin a globe and point at a random country - that country has a more robust regime than here.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

But it's such a valuable service to PIs and Westies! They need to be able to borrow that money to support the custom mags and marijuanna industries!

Don't forget the 'overpriced rust box Holden Commodore' mark-up. I had clients with 50% personal loans for cars.

[chiquelet]

Hold on, where does it mention that investors will be getting paid the interest as well as their initial deposit? If that's true then that's fucking nuts. I was just happy to receive my deposit back. And my interest rate was at 10.25%. Noice.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Labour is just as tainted by this.

I would argue that National is a lot more tainted as they're the ones who made the decision to extend SCF's public guarantee knowing it was buggered. Plus they're the ones signing the $1.7 billion cheque.

Originally Posted by Ab

As Golden Teapot once put it,

Iirc GT was also adamant that JK would be his knight in shining armour here.

[Deadmeat]

^ Got to agree there, Labour definitely played their part in establishing the fund, but it appears that National specifically extended the fund on fears about SCF and ignored anything that would prevent them going through with it.

Cactus Kate as Ab said does a good job of explaining it:

Bad loans were the main reason for its downfall, and Mr Maier revealed the high-risk tactic in an interview on TV3's Campbell Live programme.

Asked whether it had been cynically exploiting the government guarantee, Mr Maier replied: "It might have been cynical, it might have been merely incompetent ... it probably violated a lot of prudent lending criteria."
And there is a clause 6.3 in the original DoG and every one amended (with conditions strengthened, not weakened) since that states:
"During the guarantee period, the principal debtor shall ensure its business and operations (and the business and operations of its subsidiaries) are conducted in a proper, businesslike, efficient and prudent manner".

@chiquelet

nzherald

While debenture investors in South Canterbury Finance will be breathing a sigh of relief with both their principal and interest guaranteed the shareholders of the failed company are likely to lose everything.

stuff

Key confirmed yesterday that taxpayers were also liable for interest on deposits guaranteed under the scheme, which in SCF's case is as high as 8.5 per cent.

[Deadmeat]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I doubt you're wrong, but I still think Labour should use this to whip up some indignant rage amongst us proles to get elected next term.

While they _should_ you soon realise that it's Phil Goff at the helm.

[chiquelet]

Deadmeat - thanks, I did look through a bunch of articles but didn't see the interest bit mentioned. That's insane if you ask me, and that's coming from somebody with bonds in SCF. I only hoped that I'd get the principal back. National huh *snort*

[Cynos]

I'm really hoping this $1.6 billion doesn't end up in residential property. I can nearly afford a house.

[cyc]

It was absolutely stupid to establish a fucking deposit guarantee that also guaranteed people's fucking interest returns. Investments are meant to have SOME risks. Completely risk free "investments" effectively include a free money element. GG, Labour and National.

[doppelgänger of someone]

wow, ironclad 10%pa return? Why did I bother with the stock market?

[cyc]

IT'S THE RICH PRICKS' FAULT!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/pers...-for-SCFs-fall

Stupidly extended and poorly drafted deposit guarantees causing market distortions? Oh who would have thought....

[fixed_truth]

HEY MR KEY, TELL ME WHY I HAVE TO PAY

This was a big question in April when the Government bent over backwards to ensure the company was allowed into the extended guarantee scheme. A lot was already wrong with South Canterbury when it had its public guarantee extended.
For a start it was effectively in breach of its trust deed and had failed to file audited accounts. Having a look at the numbers is usually considered important when assessing a business decision.
The Treasury - which officially makes the call on who gets in to the scheme - could have waited months before accepting the finance company. But it didn't. It rushed South Canterbury in to safety because the Government knew it was a goner without the guarantee - although in the end it was a goner anyway.
When those accounts finally arrived a few days later, the auditors highlighted serious concerns about the company's viability. Six weeks later, ratings agency S&P downgraded South Canterbury Finance to a level that would have made it ineligible for the scheme.

GG National.

[Cynos]

Good news everyone! Apparently only 500 million of that investor money is from Canterbury. The rest is youse North Islanders.

[Ab]

[crocos]

Naah, doesn't have the mean goatee, enough hair, big enough snoz, or the hardcore horn-rimmed glasses.

[Spoon1]

Originally Posted by crocos

Naah, doesn't have the mean goatee, enough hair, big enough snoz, or the hardcore horn-rimmed glasses.

Or 11 secret herbs and spices...

[cyc]

The stupidity of the Hubbard and SCF defenders never ceases to amaze:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10670781

The comment of one brainless fuckwit sums it up:

maybe [Hubbard] lent money to farmers without interest as he was thinking with his heart rather than his brain or wallet.

Dear Brainless Fuckwit, please understand the concept of a separate legal personality of a company. A company director who also happens to be a super-majority shareholder is STILL required to act in the best interest of the company and not treat it as his personal toy. And when a company accepts other people's money for investment, it better damn well make sure that the money goes where the investor was led to believe it would go.

The legal and financial illiteracy of some -- if anyone needed confirmation that NZ is a third world country, this should provide the final proof.

[Ab]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10749145

Suicide by Hilux? "Seniors moment" behind the wheel? Unfortunate accident?

A comment from me on Aug 29 last year:

LOL, the dude is what – 82? We don’t trust old people to remember how to DRIVE at that age, let alone keep track of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Comment by SHG

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Suicide by Hilux?

My first thought...

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Ab

Suicide by Hilux?

Is there any other way?