marriage equality for godless sodomites

[Ab]

I see it's passed second reading; third set for April 17th. What say you, savages?

[DrTiTus]

Marriage is for fags

[A Corpse]

This will not affect me directly in any way that I can anticipate, but it will enrage self-righteous religious nuts no end. I see it as a win.

[fixed_truth]

those "protect marriage" religious fucks actually rustle my jimmies

[leadinjector]

but this will lead to people marrying their dogs! and horses!

[CCS]

Gays, eh? I think my feelings can be summed up thusly:

[cEvin]

ban marriage, pointless exercise

[Ab]

I WONDER WHAT JEREMY IRONS THINKS BECAUSE ACTORS ARE IMPORTANT

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tax-dodge.html

[chubby]

lol.
old and crazy.

[ZoSo]

Originally Posted by cEvin

ban marriage, pointless exercise

[Cyberbob]

If you don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married.

[aR Que]

i don't really get the objection, 'it undermines marriage!'. pretty sure defacto relationships fucked all real meaning (obligation?) of marriage long ago. in keeping with that, do gay people now get to suffer under that legislation?

[Lightspeed]

Hahah, that's a good question.

[Cyberbob]

I have my 200 philistine foreskins. Hand over your daughters.

Don't tell me you've undermined marriage..

[Lightspeed]

I think it's up to the law to justify any special conditions on two people legally bonding themselves to each other. I don't see how the couple's gender/race/religion could be justified as conditions.

Marriage is a spiritual concern. If people want to call their union a marriage, it's up to them and theirs, it's not something for the law.

[crocos]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I think it's up to the law to justify any special conditions on two people legally bonding themselves to each other. I don't see how the couple's gender/race/religion could be justified as conditions.

Marriage is a spiritual concern. If people want to call their union a marriage, it's up to them and theirs, it's not something for the law.

I agreed with you right up to the shark jump: "Marriage is a spiritual concern."

Unless you're meaning something completely different in your usual Lightspeed fashion, no, not at all. Basically marriage IS the bond between the two people. Doesn't matter if it's legally recognised or not, spiritually or religiously recognised or not. Frankly it doesn't matter if it's even culturally accepted or recognised.

[Ab]

Personally my feelings on the matter are: no, the government should not extend legal marriage status to homosexuals. Rather I think government-sanctioned relationship status should be removed from heterosexuals.

Look I get the anthropological history of marriage being a property transaction between father and son-and-law. But the libertarian in me thinks that Government with a capital G has no place in giving legal status to the relationships between certain consenting moral agents and not others. That's not to say it should get involved in all; rather it should be involved in NONE.

[Lightspeed]

We're more than just moral agents though, we're economic agents as well. Sharing and specialising in tasks enables us to do much more than if we each individually had to meet all our individual needs. Bonding oneself to another appears to be an effective way of committing ourselves to share domestic tasks, something which people seem to have been doing since people.

[Lightspeed]

Also, for the record, crocos is a slave to his idiocy.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

We're more than just moral agents though, we're economic agents as well. Sharing and specialising in tasks enables us to do much more than if we each individually had to meet all our individual needs. Bonding oneself to another appears to be an effective way of committing ourselves to share domestic tasks, something which people seem to have been doing since people.

I notice you didn't mention government anywhere.

[Lightspeed]

You should check my previous post on the subject. I guess I assume "law/legal" implies government.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by crocos

"Marriage is a spiritual concern."

It is for religious fanatics. For many other types of people it's something entirely different.

[Lightspeed]

I married some bales of hay once. At least, that's what it was called, forcing the last two hay bales in a row together by putting them in at an angle together and pushing them down. That wasn't a spiritual marriage.

When it comes to humans though, once you extract political and economic reasons for marriage, what are you left with?

[verve_rat]

Cultural? And, oh I don't know, emotional?

[Lightspeed]

These things are spiritual, are they not? The things of song and poetry, the essence of human life. The bits of life that are there not because they have to be there or we need them to be there but because we want them to be there.

[fixed_truth]

So this should go through tonight all going well.

Will be interesting to see how the final vote is split.

How the parties are split (based on bill's second reading):

FOR

* National: 44 per cent of MPs
* Maori: 100 per cent
* United Future: 100 per cent
* Act: 100 per cent
* Labour: 91 per cent
* Green: 100 per cent
* Mana: 100 per cent.

AGAINST

* National: 56 per cent of MPs
* Labour: 9 per cent
* New Zealand First: 100 per cent
* Independent (Brendan Horan): 100 per cent.

[Ab]

AGAINST

* Labour: 9 per cent

You cheeky darkies!

[cEvin]

Originally Posted by Ab

Personally my feelings on the matter are: no, the government should not extend legal marriage status to homosexuals. Rather I think government-sanctioned relationship status should be removed from heterosexuals.

Look I get the anthropological history of marriage being a property transaction between father and son-and-law. But the libertarian in me thinks that Government with a capital G has no place in giving legal status to the relationships between certain consenting moral agents and not others. That's not to say it should get involved in all; rather it should be involved in NONE.

perfect summary.
but since that's not going to happen (yet), equality ftw.

[Farmer Joe]

Originally Posted by cEvin

...but since that's not going to happen (yet), equality ftw.

[chubby]

.....and fairmindedness wins.

[fixed_truth]

Maurice Williamson, New Zealand MP, Delivers Incredible Gay Marriage Speech


Niiiice

[BadNova]

This bill is a good thing for sure. The whole equality thing is great, but where it really shines is in the hours of entertainment watching the religious nutters squirm on facebook and try to present their ridiculous dogmatic homophobia as sound rational reasoning.

[Cyberbob]

So what happens now when people realize they don't want to get married, they just want to have a life-long relationship that doesn't have the official rubber stamp on a government paper, but also wants equal legal rights to those that do?

Tell them "Too bad, get married." ?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Maurice Williamson, New Zealand MP, Delivers Incredible Gay Marriage Speech


Niiiice

Great speech

[Deadmeat]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

So what happens now when people realize they don't want to get married, they just want to have a life-long relationship that doesn't have the official rubber stamp on a government paper, but also wants equal legal rights to those that do?

Tell them "Too bad, get married." ?

Move to Australia?

[Deadmeat]

Law passes, song breaks out in parliment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=DW4DXOAXF8U
Either watch from the start or skip to about 1:10

[Saladin]

Lots of promises to never vote national again in places like stuff and kiwiblog comments; guess we'll see an upswing in conservative and NZF votes next year?

[cEvin]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

but also wants equal legal rights to those that do?

which rights are those?

[xor]

e.g. if you're gf of 20years is lying in a coma and you don't have the permission to turn off life support because you're not her husband

[A Corpse]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

So what happens now when people realize they don't want to get married, they just want to have a life-long relationship that doesn't have the official rubber stamp on a government paper, but also wants equal legal rights to those that do?

Tell them "Too bad, get married." ?

I'm not seeing the niche you're describing here to be honest.