Labour proposes fascinating new sex-based selection policy

[Lightspeed]

I wonder what aspects of politics involve so much time and effort? Is there no room for improvement? If we control for motherhood, are there other barriers in place that are more easily addressed?

I don't think that because absolute equality is unachievable it's a bad idea to aim for better equality.

[Ab]

Networking, networking, networking. Takes time. Doesn't have creche facilities.

[Lightspeed]

That's funny, cause I've seen creches that are hubs of networking activity. Of course, it's mostly mothers networking with other mothers, and we all know mothers don't have anything important to talk about, amirite?

[StN]

Even though we have progressed significantly in he last 100 years, the occasions during networking sessions where breasts may be exposed are poles apart when considering creché groups and a boozy night on the marketing Visa.

[aR Que]

babies fuck ya brain, straight up.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

That's funny, cause I've seen creches that are hubs of networking activity. Of course, it's mostly mothers networking with other mothers, and we all know mothers don't have anything important to talk about, amirite?

Parents don't hang out at creches. Creches are where parents leave their kids while they do stuff that they can't do with kids.

Being a parent means a lot of your calendar is booked out. You can't go to the strategy meetings after work, you can't stick around for drinks on Friday, you can't be there on the golf course at 8am Sunday, you can't be at the breakfast meetings weekdays. If you're not at those things someone who wants your job will be, and that person will get it because you're never there.

When you say "sorry I have to pick my kid up from daycare" or "can't stay, promised I'd read to my kid at bedtime" or "can't be there on Saturday, I have to be at swimming lessons" every ambitious childless competitor nearby smells blood, because whatever you said it translates as "I'm not a team player".

[Lightspeed]

You're talking about the contemporary political environment as if it's always been this way and always will be. Or childcare practices for that matter.

But say a parent is fully consumed with their parenting, intensive parenting isn't life long. Is it really necessary to commit everything to politics to have a chance of getting votes in an election? And if so this isn't something that can be changed?

[Ab]

Say two people are vying for preselection, committee membership, list placing, whatever.

One of those people eats sleeps and breathes that shit. Knocking on doors, working the phones, the before-work meetings and the after-work meetings, making sure his/her name is on the VIP list for that function, making sure that influential person knows that he/she has tickets to the big game and would just love to take a guest.

The other person is a parent, and.... doesn't have time for that shit.

One of those people is going to get tapped on the shoulder, and that person is going to join a lot of other people who have been tapped on the shoulder because they also eat sleep and breathe that shit, i.e. don't have children.

Not having children is a massive logistical advantage. You have more hours in your day, better sleep, more money, and fewer distractions.

[Lightspeed]

So whitey is out of luck. What about parents with large family support networks, who can bear a large portion of the parenting load?

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

So whitey is out of luck. What about parents with large family support networks, who can bear a large portion of the parenting load?

Doesn't change the fact that a childless person has a massive advantage.

[Lightspeed]

Advantages and disadvantages no doubt. And I think you mean childless woman. JK is getting by fine with a family and a country to run. Maybe it's cause he's rich.

It seems like you're convinced that there's nothing that can be done and we should just let nature run its course? Or perhaps that there's just nothing worth doing?

[Pimp-X]

Or perhaps you've got no frame of reference, or perhaps you're simply full of shit and/or a communist?

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

JK is getting by fine with a family and a country to run.

That's a good point.

Gender roles do seem to be a factor. I'm sure we all know (or are) Dads that successfully manage a high level job with the Mum at home with the kids (or working school hours). These roles are slowly changing and there's no fixed reason why men can't be the primary caregiver.

[pxpx]

I want to know wtf LS is doing observing creches for such long periods of time.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I've seen creches that are hubs of networking activity.

Mine eye is drawn inexorably back to this quote because it's a great example of the situation.

Lightspeed I'm guessing that you haven't actually seen creches that are hubs of parental networking activity, because creches are by definition places that parents don't hang out at. A creche is something you don't use unless you have no choice and if you are placed in a position of having to use one you want to spend no time there whatsoever. Because spending time there means you're not doing the thing that requires you to have your kid in a creche.

Maybe you meant something else, like "mothers' group" or something. But it looks more like you just went "creche, yeah that word has something to do with kids, so it must involve parents, yeah I'll use that in my example". Your comment stands out in mile-high flaming letters as probably having been written by someone who doesn't have kids and who has never been put in a position of having to use a creche.

Which is the issue of politics at hand. Decisions are made and policies formulated and laws passed which affect parents, but those decisions and policies and laws all originate with people who simultaneously have no empirical knowledge of parents' issues but think that they do. If those people had young children they would never have made it into a political position where they had the authority to make those decisions.

[pxpx]

I just imagine LS roaming around various places documenting everything he sees just in case he can use it in an internet argument.

[Lightspeed]

I've seen a variety of creches, partly because I have siblings young enough to be my own children, partly because I worked with a community organisation that had a creche attached and partly because I have spent time in creches observing children for study.

In all instances I noted parents talked to other parents and did some organising at the point of dropping off and picking up kids, although mostly it is like you describe Ab. In one instance I noted that there was space and resources available for parents to get together and well, network. Plan kids parties and events, offer support, engage in discussion, all that business.

Maybe it was all a dream. Maybe the idea that woman and parents can actually offer something to NZ's leadership is a dream.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Pimp-X

Or perhaps you've got no frame of reference, or perhaps you're simply full of shit and/or a communist?

You still buying into 50s era anti-communist hysteria I see. You must be old, dude.

[Rince]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

... because I have spent time in creches observing children for study....

that's just going to get you arrested.

[Lightspeed]

That's a shame, children are quite delightful to watch.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Lightspeed I'm guessing that you haven't actually seen creches that are hubs of parental networking activity, because creches are by definition places that parents don't hang out at.

Actually, I know this is bullshit cause I've sat in the fucking car waiting while my Mum pissed about with the other parents when picking up my little brother.

I still don't see what's so infeasible about a parent entering politics anyway. A politically minded, childbound parent would find many, many opportunities to connect with their community, demonstrate their values, community commitment, organisational skills and all that. Shit, local school politics could be just the place for a budding politician to cut their teeth.

[Pimp-X]

I think you're seeing things how you want to see them. No crèche, carer, kindergarten or school I've visited with my son for purposes of drop off or pick up has been the site of anything other than polite conversation during delays.

[Lightspeed]

How grim for you.

I know as well as I know anything that there are all kinds of experiences of early childhood services out there. I mean, there's some real hippy stuff out there, as well as plenty closer to center but not as ghastly as you make out.

[Pimp-X]

It was grim / ghastly?

As usual, you're telling the story I suppose.

[Lightspeed]

Having studied child development, the idea of treating the place where your child develops like McDonalds is fucking grim.

[Pimp-X]

Did you fail?

PS: The reason I ask is - they don't provide playcenter services at McDonalds.

PPS: Please feel free to criticize me as a parent, whenever you're ready. I know you're dying to since you've got me all figured out!

[Lightspeed]

The guy claiming to be all figured out has me all figured out!

[GM]

We've finally reached the butt hole of this thread - sentences with:

"having studied..."

and...

"as a parent"

Are being thrown about - watch out now shit is getting real.

[Lightspeed]

Yeah, from experience this doesn't end until I pull out the peer reviewed published thesis that I must have written on the subject, or I admit that everything CCS has ever said about me is true. Any kind of middle ground is clearly impossible.

[Pimp-X]

Dogma is a bitch, huh.

[aR Que]

Originally Posted by GM

"as a parent".

translated: 'I'm a fuck wit with viable sperm.'

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Pimp-X

Dogma is a bitch, huh.

Mumble mumble projection mumble mumble.

[Pimp-X]

Really? You misunderstood that? Ok, I'm out.. everyone else do carry on!

[Lightspeed]

Pimp-X ladies and gentlemen. A round of applause for his marvelous contribution to this discussion.