nCoV 2019

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by pxpx

I couldnt care less about going to a bar or a restaurant or a gig. I just want to be able to work a full week and my kids to go to school.

I want to buy plants and eat spicy fried chicken with my friends.

[blynk]

The 10am announcement was great. It actually gave a road map of what is happening.
(Yes, this could have been given weeks ago and we probably would have already been at 90%)

Making people use vaccination status (in the short term at least) will help incentivise people to go and vaccinate.

Although being stuck here for at least 6 weeks (I can't see AKL getting to 90% 1st vax in the next 3 weeks + 3 weeks for 2nd after that), is frustrating.
Mostly for the kids.
I'm fine. I can WFH. So my life is less hit.

[fixed_truth]

I wonder if those prostitutes brought covid to Blenheim?

[Cyberbob]

I don't care about gigs, restaurants, or working from home. I'd like my kids to see their friends for the first time in 10 weeks, and I'd like to see my extended family for xmas, who live in a different city to me.

Bonus points if my kids can go to school and actually learn something this year instead of just being tested on what they already know. Schools are so unequipped for remote learning. I feel especially sorry for those with college exams or first year uni classes this year.


I don't realistically see any of that changing before new years.

[crocos]

Conspiracy beliefs prospectively predict health behavior and well-being during a pandemic - a paper.

TL:DR -
Individuals who believe in COVID conspiracy theories are more likely to test positive for Covid and violate public health regulations, as well as experience job loss, reduced income, social rejection, and decreased overall well-being

[xor]

If the govt really wants to apply pressure on the remaining population to get vaccinated then they should stop people's dole for those who aren't vaccinated.

[Ab]

Jacinda causes earthquake by vax-raping the Earth, it all makes sense now

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former...USZ7KRL2L5LM4/

[The Edge]

God must have been angry with John Key about something back in 2010 as well then

[DrTiTus]

Jacinda's Facebook post with a huge pile-on against vax certificates

Obviously Facebook is Facebook, but it doesn't look like there is much support for where she's trying to take the country.

[crocos]

Wow, the raving lunatics on that page make me want to vote Labour.

[Ab]

VAX-RAPING THE EARTH.

[Lightspeed]

Sounds like a Dethklok track.

[fixed_truth]

Lol Facebook. All those muppets saying they're going to vote Labour out when all the other parties support vax certificates.

[fixed_truth]

To those who object that the state is arming itself with a sledgehammer to crush a handful of nuts, the Prime Minister and her colleagues need only cite their duty, as the people’s representatives, to do the greatest good by the greatest number. They have a whole raft of concerns over and above the paranoid fantasies of anti-vaxxers to consider. There are people whose mental fragility is fast becoming critical. Small business owners, in particular, who cannot be expected to see their life’s work ruined because their government pays more heed to the relentless selfishness of a handful of solipsists and anomic lumpenproletarians than it does to those who have done everything the state has asked of them.

To those who complain that the Prime Minister is unnecessarily and unethically stigmatising the vaccine hesitant and resistant, there is only one genuinely ethical retort: They have stigmatised themselves. Chris Trotter

[MadMax]

The argument back to that (and don’t shoot me for it) is how despite mentioning mental health, there’s a large number of people suffering for the lockdown. Many people can’t take the isolation. Many parents are divorcing or quitting their jobs (see ”the great resignation”).

[xor]

The end justifies the means eh?

[crocos]

Originally Posted by MadMax

The argument back to that (and don’t shoot me for it) is how despite mentioning mental health, there’s a large number of people suffering for the lockdown. Many people can’t take the isolation. Many parents are divorcing or quitting their jobs (see ”the great resignation”).

Melbourne has just come out of the longest series of lockdowns in the world - most of the last 18 months has been roughly equivalent to NZ's level 3. And yes while there are some that are not coping with the isolation, the observation here is the quitting the jobs bit is because the job market is buoyant and people are quitting jobs where the employer has been treating them like shit.

Those with good employers are generally staying in their roles.

[MadMax]

I don’t think it’s being widely reported on I mean how do you criticise a lockdown without sounding like an anti-vaxer.

There are definitely people that simply can’t cope with their workload and various sources of (lockdown generated) stress at the same time.

[Nich]

Anti-vax is a convenient label to stop any helpful (and unhelpful) discource. Discource that may help people make sense in this shitstorm of propaganda. No, first order of business is to establish where the battle lines are drawn.

Also, you know who you are. If you believe you are pro vax, then that is truly all that matters.

I stopped work in March, but my observation was that no one was doing their best work during the pandemic. Estimators were forgetting costly items, managers were not checking work…. and I was stopping to weed my rows of corn and snow peas. No, best not work at all if it’s nothing any of us are proud of.

[Lightspeed]

There are always a great deal of people struggling to cope with circumstances at any time.

What's different now is there is a volume of people who are used to that being other people. People with access to platforms they typically use to speak over those who are struggling, to insist everything is fine.

Now some of those are using their platforms to have their pain heard.

However, there's nothing to be done. We can't wish away the consequences of a pandemic. And so the rest of us along with our own burdens have to endure the wailing and mewling of the privileged.

[crocos]

Recent rant I wrote:
Those that CAN'T get vaccinated for access or health reasons (and waiting for a non-mRNA vaccine does not count), or it's extremely challenging to get access? Those I have sympathy for. They're going to get buggered by the vaccine passport stuff.

There's significant sections of the country and significant ethnic groups that are going to be vulnerable because they are distrustful (often for good reason), have been bypassed/overlooked by the government, are ignorant of the actual risks, or don't have access: Those I have sympathy for.

They are going to feel the brunt of both any restrictions as well as covid infections. That is heart-rending.

Certain roles where the person is dealing with large amounts of the public face-to-face like medical and education and emergency services, it's irresponsible to have unvaccinated facing potentially unvaccinated.
So those that refuse vaccination, I have little sympathy for, even while I agree they have the right to not be vaccinated, they don't have the right to endanger others, and being in public facing roles while unvaccinated is doing exactly that.

Teachers of under 12YOs? Police dealing with random members of public? Not saying fire them, but don't let them have a public facing role if not vaccinated. Unfortunately with some things like education there may not BE another role available. But then it's a choice - continue in your role and support public health, or do neither - find something else to do as they obviously don't care about the people they're dealing with. But that's no reason to be cruel - where possible work with the person to find alternate roles or modify the existing role, etc.

Those that won't vaccinate but have the opportunity to both be educated about it and receive it? That's a choice - and they're choosing their own beliefs. That's fine - and as long as you're not dealing with the vulnerable general public, I have no issue - live their life, that's fine, even though it'd be better for society if they were vaccinated.

Just don't be in the position to deal with the general public.

[DrTiTus]

Great emotional argument, terrible science and logic - vaccinated can still be infected and spread the virus.

Testing for the presence of the virus is the science-based approach, not merely vax and forget. You are making the same mistake that many are making, which is equating vaccination status with infection status. They are independent.

The vaccine certificates rely on the same faulty logic.

Police officers regularly deal with bodily fluids and wear gloves - they are wearing masks these days for airborne shit. Surely if these people are willing to risk their lives to protect society, it's not really fair to consider them selfish for making an individual choice how they manage their own health, and sacking them. Test them! Vaccinated or not.

I think everyone needs to stop and take off the mask - get a deep breath of fresh air - and start to actually think about it. Everyone is valuable, and no one is intentionally getting coronavirus. We're all taking responsibility for our health as we see fit, but dividing and punishing people is only making society worse, not better.

A peanut is protein for one person, and anaphylaxis for another. We don't just force everyone to eat peanut butter sandwiches because we signed a contract with Sanitarium and it's better than starving. Do we say it's OK that some may suffer an allergic reaction because at least no one died of hunger? No, we take into account the individual.

We've taken a very myopic view in our approach - everything is strictly COVID cases and deaths, and we're not being honest about the cost to society of our collective fear, or the relative risk compared to many other things people do without a second thought.

We aren't really giving people a free choice, and we're sacrificing our values based on things which don't make sense. "Better for society" is to let people have control over their own lives again, and support those who are unfortunate enough to need it. Collective punishments, heartless policies, and unequal treatment is not what I'd call "good for society".

[GRiM ReeFer]

This is more important than my hurt feeling, and fragile ego, so one last try,

I don't ask you to trust my judgement or listen to experts you don't respect, but I would like you to allow yourself to have authority over your own opinion.

Below is the raw data submitted to the FDA from Pfizer, use a calculator to reach whatever conclusion you like,
https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download


Below are some issues I have with it, obviously based on my own biased world view, maybe tainted with confirmation bias, so don't read below until you have had a decent review of the untainted data, cheers.


Note the below is based on the submission and not the "Revised trial data" which noted 29 deaths, 15 vaccinated, 14 placebo(still impossible), which raises serious question regarding all cause mortaly rates in the different groups.


Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting
December 10, 2020

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

Submission for emergency use of Pfizer
-------------------------------------------
Serious Adverse Events
Deaths
A total of six (2 vaccine, 4 placebo) of 43,448 enrolled participants (0.01%) died during the
reporting period from April 29, 2020 (first participant, first visit) to November 14, 2020 (cutoff
date). Both vaccine recipients were >55 years of age; one experienced a cardiac arrest 62 days
after vaccination #2 and died 3 days later, and the other died from arteriosclerosis 3 days after
vaccination #1. The placebo recipients died from myocardial infarction (n=1), hemorrhagic
stroke (n=1) or unknown causes (n=2); three of the four deaths occurred in the older group (>55
years of age). All deaths represent events that occur in the general population of the age groups
where they occurred, at a similar rate.
-------------------------------------------
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/images/data...db355_fig2.png
Reconcile 6 deaths per 43,448 when background mortality rate is .72% or 7.2 per 1,000(per year) cut this in half for 6 month period of trial,
3.6 x 43.448(note decimal point, not comma)= 156.4 expected base deaths, determine probability of 150 deaths accuring in the exculded from trial group of 3375(total excluded)page 18.

Did 96% of deaths occur in the 7.8% that were excluded? or was death a reason for exclusion,

When the only difference between groups is "2 deaths due to unknow causes" WTF, is this any kind of proof of anything?

Does the Placebo cure Bells Palsy? or would manipulation of data account for vaccinated group results falling within background population rates, and thereby supressing Bells Palsy numbers in the placebo group?


From the horses mouth regarding the 20 + years of research and development, this is an experimental therapeutic rushed through approvals
BioNTech SE
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...d939702df1.htm

No mRNA immunotherapy has been approved, and none may ever be approved. mRNA drug development has substantial clinical development and regulatory risks due to the novel and unprecedented nature of this new category of therapeutics.
-------

Even if regulatory approval is received for a BNT162 vaccine candidate, the later discovery of previously unknown problems associated with BNT162 may result in restrictions, including withdrawal of the product from the market, and lead to significant liabilities and reputational damage.

Because the path to marketing approval of any vaccine against COVID-19 is unclear, we may have a widely used vaccine in circulation in the United States or another country prior to our receipt of marketing approval. Unexpected safety issues, including any that we have not yet observed in our Phase 1/2 clinical trials for BNT162, could lead to significant reputational damage for BioNTech and our technology platforms going

forward and other issues, including delays in our other programs, the need for re-design of our clinical trials and the need for significant additional financial resources.

We also may be restricted or prohibited from marketing or manufacturing a BNT162 vaccine, even after obtaining product approval, if previously unknown problems with the product or its manufacture are subsequently discovered. We cannot provide assurance that newly discovered or developed safety issues will not arise following regulatory approval. With the use of any vaccine by a wide patient population, serious adverse events may occur from time to time that did not arise in the clinical trials of the product or that initially appeared to be unrelated to the vaccine itself and only with the collection of subsequent information were found to be causally related to the product. Any such safety issues could cause us to suspend or cease marketing of our approved products, possibly subject us to substantial liabilities, and adversely affect our ability to generate revenue and our financial condition.

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

A peanut is protein for one person, and anaphylaxis for another.

I get the point you're making, and i'm sure you're aware of the holes in it (i.e. you're not going to 'catch' anaphylaxis).
It's important to understand the individual, but it's SO much bigger than the individual.

I'm not worried about catching covid. I'm young/healthy enough to likely recover perfectly fine. I'm worried about spreading it to those that can't recover as well, or never recover at all.

Are you totally fine with being the reason someone catches and dies from it? I'm sure as shit not. But it's not black and white, I get it. There's also a sliding scale of what I'd be comfortable doing or not doing to protect those around me or otherwise vulnerable. Getting a shot once a year? Fine. Getting a shot once a day, not so fine, but that's a slippery slope fallacy I'm not falling into.

How do you stay a united country while dividing into us vs them. It's a minefield.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer

This is more important than my hurt feeling, and fragile ego, so one last try,

I don't ask you to trust my judgement or listen to experts you don't respect, but I would like you to allow yourself to have authority over your own opinion.

I have authority over my opinion by being careful about having too many opinions. Cause opinions are easy and gratifying, knowledge takes a bit more work.

Are you willing to say anything about how you develop your knowledge? What kind of academic exercise are you engaging in to assure yourself of what you know?

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

I'm worried about spreading it to those that can't recover as well, or never recover at all.

Are you totally fine with being the reason someone catches and dies from it? I'm sure as shit not.

Unfortunately, the current vaccine does not prevent transmission. If it did, we would be having a very different discussion.

Given this, and assuming the vaccine reduces symptoms, it could even be argued that a vaccinated person who has the virus but is not overtly symptomatic will not take as many precautions as someone who gets the virus and cops the full brunt of it and stays home.

Which is not to say I'm suggesting or advising people to remain unvaccinated - it's very much a personal choice - but the proposed frameworks only make sense for a mythical "perfect" vaccine which prevents infection and transmission. The vaccine we have in reality is not such a vaccine.

A recent Twitter post was from a fully immunized [Auckland] family where one member tested positive. Thankfully they followed contact tracing rules, and so they are now all in self isolation. But had they not (there's no certificate of rule following), under the proposed certificate framework they would be allowed to go to a festival purely on their vax status. They are isolating because, despite vaccination, they know they could still spread it.

Testing is the obvious solution, and I think this should be the focus of any rational system. It would prevent division and allow people to act responsibly and still keep their jobs.

I would be completely happy to provide a recent negative test where required, and I don't think it's discriminatory to say "if you are contagious you can't come in here/be in contact with the community/go to work". I haven't seen anyone argue that this is a breach of rights - it's just common sense. Check for the thing you want to prevent, not some other thing which does not prevent it.

[GRiM ReeFer]

Lightspeed, ignore that sentence if it triggers you, sorry that I implied you may be placing faith in "leaders and experts" to guide your opinion.

Obviously you're an astute individual capable of critical thinking and as such I would like your valued input regarding Pfizer's trial data.

I would be interested and probably entertained by your analysis, could you please share your thoughts how robust a trial is where 33% of deaths are listed as unknown causes.

[Ab]

So much to unpack here, but fuck, white people:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...GOHSWDGKTURIM/

"Incredibly disappointed" police have blasted the behaviour of anti-lockdown hīkoi members who blocked a state highway, risking public safety.

A strong police contingent is continuing to monitor a hīkoi involving members of the Sovereign Hīkoi of Truth (SHOT) movement at the Southern Auckland checkpoint border after a police line had to be used to move the protesters off the highway in the early hours of this morning.

The group claim to be heading to Waitangi - but have been told they are not welcome there by local Māori leaders.

Tai Tokerau Border Control founder Hone Harawira has described the hīkoi as "a scam" organised by Pākehā anti-vaxxers.

"There is no invitation from Waitangi Marae, no invitation from the Waitangi Treaty Grounds, no invitation from Ngāti Kawa or Ngāti Rahiri, and no invitation from Ngāpuhi," the former Tai Tokerau MP said.

[fixed_truth]

United States Food and Drug Administration advisers recommend Pfizer vaccine for children
Sweet, we should be protecting this group soon. The more people vaccinated the better.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer

Lightspeed, ignore that sentence if it triggers you, sorry that I implied you may be placing faith in "leaders and experts" to guide your opinion.

Obviously you're an astute individual capable of critical thinking and as such I would like your valued input regarding Pfizer's trial data.

I would be interested and probably entertained by your analysis, could you please share your thoughts how robust a trial is where 33% of deaths are listed as unknown causes.

So that's a no? You're not willing or able to talk about how you know what you know? You posted a comment with links and a lot of information. You can't say anything about where you come by this information? You can't say how you're assured you've got the full picture?

I'm astute enough to know I'm not astute enough. I've studied enough health science to know it takes a considerable volume of work, years and years of study, to become proficient at analysing the merit of primary source material as it applies to any particular healthcare approach.

I don't put my faith in my leaders. I evaluate their effectiveness.

The things I notice are our bridges remain up, our buildings stand, power stays on, water is safe to drink. None of these things are guaranteed, all are prone to collapse and failure. There are many more examples of things that don't just work cause we want them to that continue to work. Things that require competence and discipline to maintain.

This assures me that our leaders and the society that chooses them can be trusted, at least to some extent.

[GRiM ReeFer]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

.

I'm trying to be nice here, I provide source data, uncontaminated from my own personal bias to allow you to to use what ever skills you possess to draw your own conclusions.

Did you even look or did you instinctively default to doubting your ability to make a decision, deferring to authoritative figures, cloaking it in "I'm smarter than you because I know I lack the knowledge to correctly interpret blah blah" is an easy out and a disguised insult, you are not clever, you are scared.

Stop lying to yourself man, Medsafe are advising pregnant women to get vaccinated, Pfizer says fuck no, well the bridges are still standing so I guess we should trust the experts...

[GRiM ReeFer]

Here is a simple one that does not require extensive years of expertise in the field.... for some a calculator may be needed simple math.

Cases, not important, catch covid develop natural immunity, lasts at least 5 yrs
or die.

so Deaths and emergency care ref tables 3 and 4b, cross ref with percentage of population vaccinated charts and use real death number, use the lower number and calculate as a percentage of the total, the last 2 columns are based on something illogical like RRR vs ARR, then check the mortality rates in table 4/4b this is per 100,000...... is it a pandemic? of the unvacced/young, how does it compare to last 3 months... tending...

https://assets.publishing.service.go...rt-week-42.pdf

4 week period, you can check the previous ones to see trends.

People Like LightSpeed, don't look, you might develop Schizophrenia and your head explode, just listen to the experts... Boosters required in 3,2,1

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer

I'm trying to be nice here, I provide source data, uncontaminated from my own personal bias to allow you to to use what ever skills you possess to draw your own conclusions.

Did you even look or did you instinctively default to doubting your ability to make a decision, deferring to authoritative figures, cloaking it in "I'm smarter than you because I know I lack the knowledge to correctly interpret blah blah" is an easy out and a disguised insult, you are not clever, you are scared.

Stop lying to yourself man, Medsafe are advising pregnant women to get vaccinated, Pfizer says fuck no, well the bridges are still standing so I guess we should trust the experts...

I'm asking for a discussion about how you've come to understand what you know, and this is your response. You specifically AVOID talking about where what you know is coming from.

You fail that simple test.

So of course I'm not going to put any energy into understanding what you've come up with.

[GRiM ReeFer]

https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/21_0123.htm

Underlying Medical Conditions and Severe Illness Among 540,667 Adults Hospitalized With COVID-19, March 2020–March 2021

Table 1

64.2% of deaths include 6 or more underlying health issues....


https://data.cdc.gov/widgets/9bhg-hcku
general interest.

[Lightspeed]

How are you finding your information? Or are you completely unwilling to go there? You wanna keep things focused on how you're doing your own research, keep us abreast of the interesting facts you've found?

Because... we're afraid and you're here to comfort us? Or... to tell us we're not afraid enough?

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

Unfortunately, the current vaccine does not prevent transmission. If it did, we would be having a very different discussion.

Given this, and assuming the vaccine reduces symptoms, it could even be argued that a vaccinated person who has the virus but is not overtly symptomatic will not take as many precautions as someone who gets the virus and cops the full brunt of it and stays home.

Which is not to say I'm suggesting or advising people to remain unvaccinated - it's very much a personal choice - but the proposed frameworks only make sense for a mythical "perfect" vaccine which prevents infection and transmission. The vaccine we have in reality is not such a vaccine.

A recent Twitter post was from a fully immunized [Auckland] family where one member tested positive. Thankfully they followed contact tracing rules, and so they are now all in self isolation. But had they not (there's no certificate of rule following), under the proposed certificate framework they would be allowed to go to a festival purely on their vax status. They are isolating because, despite vaccination, they know they could still spread it.

Testing is the obvious solution, and I think this should be the focus of any rational system. It would prevent division and allow people to act responsibly and still keep their jobs.

I would be completely happy to provide a recent negative test where required, and I don't think it's discriminatory to say "if you are contagious you can't come in here/be in contact with the community/go to work". I haven't seen anyone argue that this is a breach of rights - it's just common sense. Check for the thing you want to prevent, not some other thing which does not prevent it.

I apprieciate that the vaccine isn't a 100% 'never gonna catch it, never gonna spread it' magic bullet, and the concept & thought experiments of a 'what if the vaccinated did more harm than the unvaccinated by unknowningly spreading it more' has a delicious poetic irony worthy of a Hollywood screenplay, but it definitely feels like it's clutching at edge cases in discussing it.

I'm not seeing it from the data I'm shown, but I'm keen to see more.

I'd prefer the strategic approach involve more rapid & frequent tests. If I could wake up and lick a magical stamp that told me whether or not I could be infectious, that'd be fantastic. Far more effective and efficient than relying on an invisible vaccine to keep me and my close contacts safe.

[GRiM ReeFer]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

How are you finding your information? Or are you completely unwilling to go there? You wanna keep things focused on how you're doing your own research, keep us abreast of the interesting facts you've found?

Because... we're afraid and you're here to comfort us? Or... to tell us we're not afraid enough?

Last thing I want is for anyone to be distressed, stress raises cortisol levels which in turn has a negative effect on the immune system.

Is covid scary? no, no worse that the seasonal flu, is the vaccine scary? no one knows so stay happy and boost that immune system, is the reaction to a bad flu being exploited for political and ideological reasons, fuck yes.
How did the Spanish flu end? not with a vaccine or masks, people just said fuck this and returned to normal.


Where do I find my info?
example
When medsafe started pushing pregnant women to get the vacs, I though to myself that don't sound right, so I checked their linked supporting studies which they have since changed, but at the time they had four, 2 of which reference back to the same study, and the other 2 were not regarding safety. The bottom line was that if you got covid while pregnant it could be bad, because previously if you got a virus while pregnant it is bad, ignoring the establish guidelines that giving vaccines to pregnant women is a bad idea. The recommendation from Pfizer is if you are planning on getting pregnant before conception get vaccinated, not and never during pregnancy.

The safety study included 35,000 pregnant women, cool, mostly medical staff as they where the first to get vaccinated,

Ah I though, this could effect the results since surely medical professionals would have less chance of miscarriages, but I was wrong, turns out doctors and nurse are little better than crack whores, I exaggerate for comedic relief, but due to unhealthy work culture/fear of lost wages and promotions they place baby second to career, so I was wrong, but back to the study 35,000 bellies, 800 results used in trial from a pool of 35,000 about 3% 800ish with only 112 miscarriages (roughly going off memory here) so falls within background norms, hmmm this was a study of preggos who will now all have given birth, where is the updated data on the other 97%
surely that is important or do we just go with 3% ..... then I though hey nurses whats with the placing career ahead of your baby's life? found this little gem CARING CORRUPTED - The Killing Nurses of The Third Reich, and you know it's kosher

So this in turn lead me down a bit of a rabbit hole, who are BioNTech the developers of the Pfizer vaccine, Germany company...

Dr. Ugur Sahin and Dr. Özlem Türeci, the couple who founded BioNTech, who are they?

Ugur Sahin and Ozlem Tureci are the unforgettable, loyal children of the Turkish nation, whom we will forever remember with pride. We expect the support of all parties in parliament for this important move,"
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turk...-nobel/2275849

Devout Muslims, is this why the head of Pfizer is using Israel as the laboratory to test the vaccine?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer...ovid-vaccines/

Crikey is Germany up to their old tricks and with the aid of Turkey(a patsy?), no nothing like that would ever happen....again

Ah yes the germans and Nazi Germany, how about that dude Goebels, was he all bad? I mean he did adopt Harald Quandt why is this interesting well Günther Quandt, Harald's old man ran factories in Nazi Germany with Jewish slave labor and keep this fortune after the war and trials, this fortune is now invested in the UK pass card, old quote about "if the SS had the technology we have now" spring to mind. Tasty.

Interesting facts, do they align to form anything, probably not, but with the rise of the new world order/great reset "world economic forum" and green energy, climate emergency stuff going on, oil resource depletion openly accepted now, the US reliance on the petrol dollar about to falter, we are all on the edge, and they have us all locked down, who knows, but I find it interesting.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer

Last thing I want is for anyone to be distressed, stress raises cortisol levels which in turn has a negative effect on the immune system.

Is covid scary? no, no worse that the seasonal flu

Citation needed.

Or not? How about how for every hospitalised flu victim there will be 17 with covid that require a ventilator. Or how about for every mortality of flu there'd be 6 killed by covid. Those stats go on and on

Per population infected.

[Nich]

Dr Rhonda Patrick & Dr Roger Seheult (Medcram) addressing myths, rumours, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp-nPZETLTo

COVID 19 is almost 20x more deadly than the flu for younger people (and that's pre-Delta variant). But we are talking about the difference between 0.01% and 0.2%. Still even getting to 1% of population dying of something that could be avoided is a significant tragedy.

You can do things to lessen your chances of being in that 1%:
- get vaccinated (every 3-4 months), and make sure the nurse knows how to avoid injecting into your bloodstream (aspirate the syringe).
- supplement with Vit D, Vit C, zinc, quercetin, N-acetyl cysteine

Is there an optimal daily dose of vitamin D for immune function? | Roger Seheult
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3-yEgyGYUA

Low vitamin D and increased mortality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwNgKJ-7YWQ

NAC--(N-Acetylcysteine) Potent Antioxidant and Anti-Inflammatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uwIMjIVfI4
NAC is also good if you spent all night on the booze and want to avoid a hangover.

[GRiM ReeFer]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Citation needed.

Or not? How about how for every hospitalised flu victim there will be 17 with covid that require a ventilator. Or how about for every mortality of flu there'd be 6 killed by covid. Those stats go on and on

Per population infected.

you ask for something you fail to provide?

no worries,

Total covid deaths in NZ 28. about 18 months?
https://www.stats.govt.nz/experiment...19-data-portal

total influenza deaths NZ 670 2018.......... 12 month period
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ality-web-tool