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Old 18th January 2022, 20:03     #2401
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Assumption or fact?
Victoria has shat itself and declared Code Brown due to Omicron and shitty prevention measures - too many ppl not even bothering with masking or checking-in for tracing. Fucks me off.
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Old 18th January 2022, 20:20     #2402
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Covid 19 Australia: Why half of people in NSW intensive care are vaccinated
Quote:
People who are vaccinated can still get Covid but tend to get a milder disease with reduced rates of hospitalisations and death.
Reduced rates of death. Not "no death". Also the current vaccines are not actually targeted at Omicron - they have some T and B-cell effectiveness, but it's not conveying immunity.

It takes time to develop - think about it, The original strain and Alpha through Delta are not nearly as infectious, nor as transmissible, as Omicron. It took over a year to develop, test, produce and establish distribution chains.

Omicron only emerged a couple months ago - it's going to take time for any Omicron-specific vaccine to be developed.

(PS: Not aimed at you FT)
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Old 18th January 2022, 21:24     #2403
fixed_truth
 
Of course not "no death". But the data so far does show that you're at much greater risk of serious illness & death if you're not vaccinated
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Old 18th January 2022, 23:02     #2404
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
But the data so far does show that you're at much greater risk of serious illness & death if you're old and have co-morbidities
Fixed fixed_truth's truth.

Can we stop pretending that 1 human = 1 human? We are not fungible, equivalent beings. One person's outcome does not imply the same outcome in another person. An 80 year old with emphysema is not the same as a 5 year old. Or a 25 year old. Or a 45 year old. Delivering all these "general statistics" is misleading, because people are extrapolating the elderly deaths across the entire population and that's obviously not how it works.

The Edge: What shall we do? Deliver people honest information, allow them to make up their own minds, talk to their doctor and assess their own risk, and be responsible for their own health. Allow treatments using whatever drugs show promise, and again, let people consult with their doctor and decide. Stop treating unvaccinated as equivalent to "positive cases" and stop pretending vaccinated are "negative cases". Allow rapid tests to be distributed where required, and let people feel empowered to take the measures they feel necessary. Stop punishing small businesses while allowing the big companies to continue to operate, and stop insisting that everyone MUST take a fucking experimental vaccine that we do know harms some people, don't know what it does long term, and is not as effective as we hoped. Operate "stay home recommendations" where there are massive outbreaks, but don't punish people if they do decide to leave home. Promote healthier lifestyles, and encourage exercise and good nutrition. That is the basis of health - not punishments and job losses and endless vaccination schedules while we sit at home and practice baking and visiting the supermarket as a means to get out of the house.

Basically, use common sense, and tell people the truth without threats and coercion and division. Is it really that hard?
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Old Yesterday, 14:50     #2405
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Can we stop pretending that 1 human = 1 human? We are not fungible, equivalent beings.
That's not what we're pretending. You're stupid if you think that's what's going on.

We know people aren't equivalent. We also know that there are no coherent metrics to measure our differences in any complete fashion. We understand there's no acceptable way to weigh one human life against another, we've seen it play out enough times now, the horrors that result.

Yes, it's hard for stupid people to grasp this when on the surface it looks like this is something we could do.

Quote:
Delivering all these "general statistics" is misleading
Only if you're stupid. Most understand the limited purpose of such statistics.

A friend of mine has covid. The first person I've personally known to catch the virus, Southern US. They'll probably be fine, but I still don't want to go through the days of misery they're suffering. The anxiety that maybe they won't be fine isn't great either. Nor do I want that suffering left to run rampant. The potential psychological and emotional impact on billions, along with the hundreds of billions of work hours lost to people recuperating.

Even if you don't care about people dying, even if it's only the worthless frail dying, there is still this huge volume of suffering and other impacts to consider.

If we don't have anyone to trust to make this consideration, if freedom means everything must be done on a case-by-case basis, we're buggered anyway.
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Old Yesterday, 16:17     #2406
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Fixed fixed_truth's truth.

Can we stop pretending that 1 human = 1 human? We are not fungible, equivalent beings. One person's outcome does not imply the same outcome in another person. An 80 year old with emphysema is not the same as a 5 year old. Or a 25 year old. Or a 45 year old. Delivering all these "general statistics" is misleading, because people are extrapolating the elderly deaths across the entire population and that's obviously not how it works.
It's delivered as a general statistic because it's true for every demographic. No matter who you are you're at more of a risk of needing specialised care if you're not vaccinated & catch covid then if you are vaccinated. And the risk or receiving a vaccination injury requiring specialised care is less than the risk of not getting vaccinated.

Yes the older you get the greater the risk but for other age groups it's not insignificant.

Even if we pretend it's entirely elderly people being hospitalized & dying that's actually another reason why we should be getting vaccinated.
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Old Yesterday, 17:08     #2407
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Yes the older you get the greater the risk but for other age groups it's not insignificant.
Do you actually read the articles you share?

Quote:
“Most of the COVID+ kids in the hospital are actually not here for COVID-19 disease,” McGuire said in an email. “They are here for other issues but happen to have tested positive.”
This is exactly what I mean by delivering honest information. We shouldn't have to dig through details to figure out that we're being told lies/exaggerations.

It's coming across like a massive scare campaign, and many people are terrified for their lives, when they don't really need to be. The others who realize that the information is incredibly biased have now lost trust in authority, and that's why people are rightfully upset. Most people I talk to (in real life) couldn't give a shit about COVID, and have more problems with lockdowns and passports etc than the actual risk to health.

If we were honest, we would accept that getting a vaccine that doesn't prevent transmission is not going to prevent us passing it on to an old person. It's purely peace of mind for those who might want it. As crocos stated, it's old virus definitions anyway, so it doesn't work with Omicron. But it might help people not freak out while their body does what it was always going to do, and takes care of the virus.

I'm hearing a lot of personal tales of what appears to be vaccine injury, or side effects, but of course, we're not honest, so these are definitely not vaccine related. The usual: strokes, shingles, heart problems, brain bleeds. Just coincidences that they occurred after vaccination. Since this data is not recorded, any comparison between injury vs actual COVID risk are effectively worthless.

"Get vaccinated" ... brought to you by Pfizer
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Old Yesterday, 17:12     #2408
Lightspeed
 
Yeah, cause there's no problem with kids in hospital for other things catching covid.

This is what I mean by only being able to consider a small subset of information.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : Yesterday at 17:13.
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Old Yesterday, 17:57     #2409
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Tell me what's wrong with kids testing positive for COVID, knowing that we're all going to come across this virus and test positive at some point in our lives. Can you accept that this is case? That we can't hide from COVID forever?

As Dear Leader says, "it's when, not if".

I actually don't see a problem with kids that happen to be in hospital for unrelated conditions testing positive through routine testing in hospitals.

Don't forget, this is in the context of fixed_truth's claim that "kids are at risk too", and I'd like to ask: at risk of WHAT? testing positive, or suffering and ending up in ICU?

Because everyone's at risk of getting the virus, but relatively few are at risk of ending up in ICU, especially children. Those that are, again, the usual suspects: immune system issues, or cancer kids. [Underlying conditions]

My brain only needs to hold a few pertinent facts:

- 99.9% recovery rate
- Underlying conditions are the biggest determination of outcome
- Age is the next biggest factor
- Vaccines are ineffective against Omicron and don't stop transmission
- Some people suffer from vaccination

It's actually very simple and not at all scary. But 2 years of fear porn has left you all with vaccine hard-ons and a fear fetish.
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Old Yesterday, 18:22     #2410
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
200 years of nonstop victories in the war against disease has left you all with vaccine hard-ons
true
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Old Yesterday, 18:56     #2411
Lightspeed
 
Medical interventions FTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Don't forget, this is in the context of fixed_truth's claim that "kids are at risk too", and I'd like to ask: at risk of WHAT? testing positive, or suffering and ending up in ICU?
I figure everyone understands the risks of comorbidity of illnesses. If you don't realise this, it makes sense that you wouldn't appreciate the significance of an increase in the number of children showing up with covid.

But you got your list-o'-facts I guess.
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Old Yesterday, 19:43     #2412
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
I actually don't see a problem with kids that happen to be in hospital for unrelated conditions testing positive through routine testing in hospitals.
Yes, the huge jump in kids being in hospital is totally unrelated to covid, just an unfortunate coincidence
Quote:
Omicron is sending thousands of children to US hospitals. COVID hospitalisations for children jumped 58 percent across the US in the past week, CDC data shows. The surging Omicron variant in the United States is fuelling thousands of new COVID-19 hospitalisations among children, raising new concerns about how unvaccinated Americans under the age of 18 will fare in the new surge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
My brain only needs to hold a few pertinent facts:

- 99.9% recovery rate
- Underlying conditions are the biggest determination of outcome
- Age is the next biggest factor
- Vaccines are ineffective against Omicron and don't stop transmission
- Some people suffer from vaccination


My brain holds onto the fact that Auckland's vacation rate is approaching 98% and growing. NZ's 94% and growing. You selfish antivax conspiracy guys are just a noisy minority.
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Old Yesterday, 21:05     #2413
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
You missed point 4: vaccines are ineffective against Omicron.

My information isn't conspiracy - it's public knowledge. Pfizer CEO admitted the vaccines don't work against Omicron.

You're living with old information, update your grey matter.

Auckland Airport worker, double jabbed, boostered, still got COVID.


Please explain to me, seriously: If vaccination is our way out of this, and so many people are vaccinated, why are cases at an all time high?

There's only one conclusion: the vaccines aren't working. So stop pushing your shitty propaganda product and come up with a new plan.
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Old Yesterday, 21:17     #2414
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Try this, from Israel: https://unherd.com/thepost/israeli-v...made-mistakes/
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Old Yesterday, 21:19     #2415
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Shitty meme rebuttal

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Old Yesterday, 21:43     #2416
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Please explain to me, seriously: If vaccination is our way out of this, and so many people are vaccinated, why are cases at an all time high?

There's only one conclusion: the vaccines aren't working. So stop pushing your shitty propaganda product and come up with a new plan.
Or there's the evidence based explanation being because while the current vaccine is only partially effective at preventing people from catching the delta variant it's more effective at protecting against severe disease, hospitalisation and death.
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Old Yesterday, 23:25     #2417
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Just give up mate, not worth it
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Old Today, 07:20     #2418
The Edge
 
Out of interest Simon, what is your policy on coronavirus misinformation being posted here? Another board I've heard of has gone as far as locking people out of specific forums for endlessly posting bs.
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Old Today, 08:03     #2419
StN
I have detailed files
 
My Grandads fought in wars for the freedom for assclowns to assclown.
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Old Today, 08:14     #2420
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Please explain to me, seriously: If vaccination is our way out of this, and so many people are vaccinated, why are cases at an all time high?

There's only one conclusion: the vaccines aren't working. So stop pushing your shitty propaganda product and come up with a new plan.
Vaccines are working. They helped with the strains that were a lot worse for us.
Then the virus mutates, and usually when the mutate they become less deadly.
(Which is probably how omicron started, the mutation was one that was highly infectious otherwise it wouldn't have been able to affect the vaccinated.)

So while infections are high, we are coming to a point where it is less likely to have a damaging impact on the health sector.
So it will become another flu. Where each year there is a vaccine on offer that will help with the current strain.
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Old Today, 08:15     #2421
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
My Grandads fought in wars for the freedom for assclowns to assclown.
I guess antivaxs see themselves as the same.
People went to war for freedom with a chance they could die.
AntiVaxs are having their "war" for "freedom" with a chance they could die.
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Old Today, 08:48     #2422
The Edge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
My Grandads fought in wars for the freedom for assclowns to assclown.
That's true, but I've always thought "freedom of speech" should not also amount to "freedom of consequences". But that's just my 2c.
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Old Today, 09:45     #2423
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edge
That's true, but I've always thought "freedom of speech" should not also amount to "freedom of consequences". But that's just my 2c.
Fully agree - that's why I was gutted when the Internet got censored when someone published that the ChCh quakes were punishment for swamp dwelling lesbian heathens - that kind of idiocy should be left to tag the poster in perpetuity.
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Old Today, 11:38     #2424
sidbo
Raptus regaliter
 
This post brought to you by edging

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Old Today, 11:49     #2425
MadMax
Stuff
 
Why is the locations of interest map showing different data to the list of locations? Palmy has six on the list but none on the map
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Old Today, 12:20     #2426
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Updating frequency
The locations of interest map will be updated once per day – please see the main locations of interest page for the most recent locations.

The locations were added at 12pm (40 minutes ago), so I assume their cron job (or manual process) to spit out the json has not kicked off yet. Based on the github page and the last update time, the map gets updated at ~8am, so they'll show tomorrow.
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Old Today, 12:26     #2427
StN
I have detailed files
 
^^^ I appreciate his well reasearched and fact based post from DrT!
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Old Today, 13:06     #2428
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus


Please explain to me, seriously: If vaccination is our way out of this, and so many people are vaccinated, why are cases at an all time high?
If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?
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Old Today, 13:41     #2429
MadMax
Stuff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
The locations were added at 12pm (40 minutes ago), so I assume their cron job (or manual process) to spit out the json has not kicked off yet. Based on the github page and the last update time, the map gets updated at ~8am, so they'll show tomorrow.
Oddly that wasn’t the case for the last time either for when Palmy had a bunch of LOI - even days later.
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Old Today, 13:53     #2430
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Ardern said the government knew, from other countries, that it could take as little as 14 days for Omicron cases to grow from the hundreds into the thousands.

The whole of New Zealand will move to red within 24-48 hours once Omicron enters the community, she said.
oh lawd he comin
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Old Today, 17:03     #2431
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edge
Out of interest Simon, what is your policy on coronavirus misinformation being posted here? Another board I've heard of has gone as far as locking people out of specific forums for endlessly posting bs.
Yeah but we're all mates here. Except for, well, you know, THEM.

Most of what we might call "disinformation" that's been posted in this thread is just... wilful ignorance? It's actually been fascinating to see things like

"1+1 is 3. Look the UK government has announced it in this report here."
/reads report
"nah dude, on the first page it says '1+1=2' and then there are 50 pages of experiments that all come back '2'
"Exactly, 3."
"What?"

Just being part of these discussions is eye-opening. It's like...

https://youtu.be/0pipmGRNjo0?t=75
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