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Old 28th October 2021, 01:23     #1961
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer
you ask for something you fail to provide?

no worries,

Total covid deaths in NZ 28. about 18 months?
https://www.stats.govt.nz/experiment...19-data-portal

total influenza deaths NZ 670 2018.......... 12 month period
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ality-web-tool
And that's definitely an appropriate way to understand those figures? Understanding these figures in this way gives us a sufficiently clear picture of the lethal consequences of both these viruses?

There's no better understanding out there that might reveal something different?
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Old 28th October 2021, 06:38     #1962
StN
I have detailed files
 
We had a fucking moat for a reason!!!

Last edited by StN : 28th October 2021 at 06:40.
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Old 28th October 2021, 08:42     #1963
blynk
 
I guess some Aucklander wanted to shut the South Island up. (yes double meaning intended)
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Old 28th October 2021, 08:52     #1964
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
We had a fucking moat for a reason!!!
Quote:
One had travelled from Auckland on October 15 and infected someone they live with. The pair, who are family members, are both unvaccinated.
Cunts
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Old 28th October 2021, 09:26     #1965
xor
 
#mildshock.
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Old 28th October 2021, 09:29     #1966
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
But their freeedommmms.
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Old 28th October 2021, 09:30     #1967
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Cunts
Unvaccinated no-scanning shared custody instance I understand.
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Old 28th October 2021, 09:37     #1968
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
But their freeedommmms.
So pissed off at the mental midget that claims she was harrased at the supermarket (Pak'n'Sav Wainoni) because they didn't accept her mask exemption for PTSD (and obvious mental issues) - and she has now decided to get her partner to do the shopping - FFS, that should have been the first option you vacuous bint!
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Old 28th October 2021, 09:48     #1969
GRiM ReeFer
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
And that's definitely an appropriate way to understand those figures? Understanding these figures in this way gives us a sufficiently clear picture of the lethal consequences of both these viruses?

There's no better understanding out there that might reveal something different?
Hey he defined the metric, I gave him exactly what he asked for, by his reasoning he failed to produce citations, he asked for me to back up an assertion with verifiable data, that's a government source, are we trusting the government today?

And yes I am playing, context is important, like "death by covid" and "deaths where covid is mentioned on the death certifcate" as per the UK reports, or the US where "covid death" is any death of a person with covid regardless of cause of death, including where there is no testing and the doctor suspect the patient may have had covid.

Or the simple fact that the PCR test does not make the distinction between had covid or currently infected and aflicted by covid.
Or gun shot victims dying on site and being classified as covid deaths

Yes I think context matters, you do know there is a financial incentive in the US hospitals to certify patients as covid victims.
Did the hospital ships get used in New York? NO,
Did the Nightinggale hospitals get used in the UK? No

Here is a tasty exercise:

what was the ratio of hospital beds per population in NZ in 2015, what is it now? Would we be able to bed all current cases(all not just those requiring hospitalization but all current active cases) in the beds the last 2 government remove or failed to increase in line with population growth? Hint: yes.
is the government efficient and effective?

Speaking of hospital beds: Japan....hospital beds per population, seems they care, but we can't speak about Japan, they halted vaccination due to safety concerns the crazy unscientific idiots, and Sweden, Finland, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Denmark, Norway, and The Netherlands, did the TV people mention any of that?

Here's another tasty exercise:

What was the UN's projected deaths for Australia for 2021 calculated pre covid, based on changing demographics like an aging population and health challenges with immigration and an underfunded health sector
here's a hint according to the UN you are not dying fast enough,

So mortality in Australia, do you compare covid deaths directly with historic data or projected data based on trends and existing historic data, gets a bit murky, in the UK if you have a mild winter the following winter will have a spike in elderly deaths, have a heat wave the elderly get cleaned out and the winter deaths will be reduced, not because of the severity of the winter but due to underlying health issues of the group, so context and external factors are important, stepping back and understanding the big picture is required, according to the media the seasonal flu has all but disappeared, does this indicate those that would have died from the flu are the exact same people dying of covid... ergo covid is the new flu, if you adjust the covid deaths to account for people with pre existing disposition to death by flu, how does that effect total numbers?
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Old 28th October 2021, 10:29     #1970
MadMax
Stuff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer
you ask for something you fail to provide?

no worries,

Total covid deaths in NZ 28. about 18 months?
https://www.stats.govt.nz/experiment...19-data-portal

total influenza deaths NZ 670 2018.......... 12 month period
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ality-web-tool
You speak but you say nothing. Total deaths is only a small part of the story.
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Old 28th October 2021, 10:30     #1971
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer
you ask for something you fail to provide?

no worries,

Total covid deaths in NZ 28. about 18 months?
https://www.stats.govt.nz/experiment...19-data-portal

total influenza deaths NZ 670 2018.......... 12 month period
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ality-web-tool
How many deaths were in 2020 or 2021 due to Influenza?

The controls between your 2 metrics are vastly different, and even a 10 year old science fair project would know that.

You are comparing a period where there were no restrictions in place. Where sick people hard to turn up to work or not get paid. Where sick people went to shops, sports events, concerts, schools.

When people didn't where masks, stay at home, see less people etc etc.
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Old 28th October 2021, 10:30     #1972
Nich
 
I can't find the link right this moment, but a study of recent previous pandemics (SARS COV 1, MERS) revealed that flu numbers drop for some reason during pandemics.
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Old 28th October 2021, 10:38     #1973
GRiM ReeFer
 
https://cyprus-mail.com/2021/10/26/u...bstance-found/

Citing the European Chemicals Agency, the union said ethylene oxide – a substance used to coat and sterilise PCR and rapid test nasal swabs – is toxic, carcinogenic and mutagenic even when inhaled.

Ethylene oxide is a gas commonly used to sterilise many different types of medical devices, including swabs used in test kits. Ethylene oxide (EtO) gas sterilisers have been used by hospitals for over 40 years to sterilise surgical equipment and supplies that are heat sensitive or that cannot tolerate excessive moisture.

Use of the substance is banned in food production in the EU. Under EU Regulation No. 2015/868, the maximum residue level for the sum (of ethylene oxide and the conversion product 2-chloroethanol), referred to as ethylene oxide, has been specified at 0.05 mg/kg.

The Isotita union’s concerns come after a report aired two days ago on media channel Pronews TV, about a rapid test swab found to contain 0.36 mg/kg of ethylene oxide.

The analysis, done by Larnaca-based Food Allergens Lab, had set the detection limit at 0.025 mg/kg.
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Old 28th October 2021, 11:16     #1974
GRiM ReeFer
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax
You speak but you say nothing. Total deaths is only a small part of the story.

yet you attributed meaning to..... what did you post again.... numbers.
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Old 28th October 2021, 11:22     #1975
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
You can do things to lessen your chances of being in that 1%:
And the really obvious:

Wear a mask.
Avoid indoor gatherings.
Wash your hands whenever you've been to places where other people touch stuff.
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Old 28th October 2021, 11:57     #1976
GRiM ReeFer
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
How many deaths were in 2020 or 2021 due to Influenza?

The controls between your 2 metrics are vastly different, and even a 10 year old science fair project would know that.
Sarcasm,

It's like when someone attributes meaning to numbers without context or citation, implies that unless citation is used the numbers are meaningless, oblivious to the fact they themselves fail to provide that which they demand from others.

Then you reply with numbers, with citation, (reference to the source of information used in your research)

Which obviously are meaningless which highlights the stupidity of the original post.

He asked for numbers with citation, he got it. Am I dumber that a ten year old maybe, who cares, did you callout Madmax for his assumed numbers based on no context and lacking citation? no you did not.

This is a cause for concern, the road to evil, this is how good people are lead down the path, not by people they distrust. Treating people differently based on perceived divisions never ended well.
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Old 28th October 2021, 14:46     #1977
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRiM ReeFer
you ask for something you fail to provide?

no worries,

Total covid deaths in NZ 28. about 18 months?
https://www.stats.govt.nz/experiment...19-data-portal

total influenza deaths NZ 670 2018.......... 12 month period
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ality-web-tool
Given the massive lockdown efforts, this is unsurprising. You'll also find lockdown had a massive decrease in influenza deaths as well.

Try these for comparison:
From JAMA medical journal:
Quote:
During the week ending April 21, 2020, 15 455 COVID-19 counted deaths were reported in the US.5 The reported number of counted deaths from the previous week, ending April 14, was 14 478. By contrast, according to the CDC, counted deaths during the peak week of the influenza seasons from 2013-2014 to 2019-2020 ranged from 351 (2015-2016, week 11 of 2016) to 1626 (2017-2018, week 3 of 2018).6 The mean number of counted deaths during the peak week of influenza seasons from 2013-2020 was 752.4 (95% CI, 558.8-946.1).7 These statistics on counted deaths suggest that the number of COVID-19 deaths for the week ending April 21 was 9.5-fold to 44.1-fold greater than the peak week of counted influenza deaths during the past 7 influenza seasons in the US, with a 20.5-fold mean increase (95% CI, 16.3-27.7).5,6


WHO on Annual Influenza deaths
Quote:
Influenza is a serious global health threat that impacts all countries: every year, there are an estimated 1
billion cases, 3-5 million severe cases, and 290 000-650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths
worldwide


Versus the WHO's estimated 3,000,000+ excess mortality for 2020 (does not include numbers from last 10 months) and confirmed 1.8M direct deaths
https://www.who.int/data/stories/the...cess-mortality

Current numbers are indicating 245,768,686 cases, 4,987,767 deaths - that's more deaths alone then estimated severe cases of influenza.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Worldometer isn't a primary source, but does list primary sources. I'm not aware of reliable sources for severe-but-not-fatal Covid infections, nor of things like long covid.
WHO estimate current covid deaths: 4,961,489
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Last edited by crocos : 28th October 2021 at 14:51.
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Old 28th October 2021, 14:55     #1978
blynk
 
I don't fully understand the governments decision making (haha, yeah I haven't understood it for a while now)

Auckland shut down quite quickly when we had the case announced. Same with Waikato and Northland.
But 2 people walking around CHCH for 10 days unvaccinated and not scanning and there is nothing.
Going far and wide in CHCH as well. Not just limited to an area.
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Old 28th October 2021, 15:20     #1979
Lightspeed
 
Perhaps it's fatigue?
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Old 28th October 2021, 18:10     #1980
Nich
 
Currently in hospital (for good reasons). Every nurse on the ward hates Dan Andrews and the shitty bureaucracy getting in the way of real health care. And they all bring it up out of the blue. They seem to be burnt out. God help us if they decide to quit en masse.
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Last edited by Nich : 28th October 2021 at 18:12.
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Old 28th October 2021, 19:16     #1981
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I can't imagine what it's like to have been a nurse during the past 20-24 months. What a nightmare.

Unrelated but still fucked up, get this:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-...work/100575782

Dude is superhighrisk for bad vaccine reactions, totally legit exemption from compulsory COVID shots.

There's no wiggle room in the new regulations - no jab, no job - so he can't work. Loses job.

But he can go in as a customer, no questions asked!
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Old 29th October 2021, 02:41     #1982
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
I'm sure the meningococcal vaccine was pushed as "safe and effective" too. And for most people, it is. But to make a blanket statement, and mandate that everyone HAS to have it [or lose their job?], seems like madness, and certainly open the doors to problems of responsibility.

To take away the choice, implies that the risk and responsibility are no longer on the individual. I would say it's in a government's best interests to allow people freedom of choice, if only to remove their liability and responsibility when these rare events do take place [which, I think is fair to assume, will happen sometimes].

I'm not here to share links about the meningococcal vaccine, or tout efficacy rates, or prove something with data. I'm just hoping that people start to realize that "one size fits all" healthcare is not a great decision, and we're literally playing with people's lives. It really doesn't sit well with me that a leader of a free country would keep repeating the mantra "get vaccinated" without incorporating some sort of verbal asterisk like "where possible" and encouraging people to speak to their doctor and get proper advice and do it through proper channels, not just drive through jabs [wtf?]

Should there not be a medical professional involved? Some screening to justify the risk/benefit?

I know in Russia (with Sputnik, which is obviously not Pfizer), they are not vaccinating young people willy nilly. I don't know the exact policy, but I spoke to a girl who had recently contracted COVID. She's alive, obviously, and appears to be "normal"/recovered, but I asked if she had been vaccinated and she said she hadn't. I asked why not, and she said "the doctor did not recommend it for someone of my age [20], because I am not high risk".

I did not chastise her for not being vaccinated, nor did I attack Russian medical expertise. It is what it is - who am I to say? She got COVID, she recovered, case closed. I don't think she spent time in hospital, just stayed home because she was obviously sick.

If these paranoid propagandatarians want to vaccinate their 5 year old, well fuck, I have no sympathy if they end up with side effects. You're supposed to protect your children, not inject them with experimental drugs because you're scared of something you've heard about on TV.
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Old 29th October 2021, 06:27     #1983
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
Going far and wide in CHCH as well. Not just limited to an area.
I'd heard "he" was a truck driver - most of the locations of interest are dairies or food outlets - wouldn't be surprised if he was an "On the Spot" van driver.
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Old 29th October 2021, 08:20     #1984
StN
I have detailed files
 
I'm almost tempted to make a trolling 3D animation of the 'P' from the Pfizer logo contorting and reflecting, splitting into 3 for shot1, shot2 and booster, then inverting and showing everyone being tagged with '666' and claiming Rev 13:18 - "No one shall trade without the mark!"

(Yes, I know the number is actually 616 but gotta play to the crowd here...)
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Old 29th October 2021, 11:28     #1985
GRiM ReeFer
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
I'm almost tempted to make a trolling 3D animation of the 'P' from the Pfizer logo contorting and reflecting, splitting into 3 for shot1, shot2 and booster, then inverting and showing everyone being tagged with '666' and claiming Rev 13:18 - "No one shall trade without the mark!"

(Yes, I know the number is actually 616 but gotta play to the crowd here...)
as per Pfizer CEO, Israel is the test population, so what happens in Israel happens 2 months later in the US, then trickles down here.

2 jabs, 2 boosters, then as we all know cats, dogs, horses etc requires jabs, because we have known for over a year animals act as a reservoir and until we either eliminate or inoculate our pets total elimination strategy is impossible.

Waning efficacy, regular boosters for the immunocompromised will morph to everyone that is vaccinated (a little hint is in the list of causes for immunocompromised) big push for max vax before winter in the northern hemisphere, we should get a clear indication of the full effects of vaccination, unless there is no control group, regarding all cause mortality.

I've said enough, time to just sit back and watch the world turn, what ever your stance I wish you all well, no hard feeling, might pop in around June to either apologies or console, peace.

--------------------------------------------
US vaccine passport sample below, graphic warning pre spa day hand.

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/upload...l&w=1600&h=900
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Old 29th October 2021, 11:33     #1986
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
CDC:
Quote:
At this time, there is no evidence that animals play a significant role in spreading SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, to people.
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Old 29th October 2021, 11:48     #1987
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
From Judge David Harvey:

https://theitcountreyjustice.wordpre...e-of-covid-19/
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Old 29th October 2021, 12:30     #1988
StN
I have detailed files
 
Not bad for a lapsed NZGamer!

Top notch quoting of Dr Suess too. Not the kind of judge who would kick up a stink if Tarquin and Jemima couldn't get across the border to go to Gymkhana.
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Old 29th October 2021, 13:15     #1989
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Thumbs up

I like that article.
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Old 29th October 2021, 13:31     #1990
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
CDC: At this time, there is no evidence that animals play a significant role in spreading SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, to people.
Be careful, because there are three "weasle words" (phrases) in there.

"At this time" [subject to change]
"there is no evidence" [we are not stating that this is true, just that we don't have data which meets our criteria]
"significant role" [perhaps there have been instances, but they are not numerous]

Which of course, is not me suggesting that the opposite of the statement is true, but it's very carefully phrased. A more reassuring statement would read:

SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, cannot be spread to humans via animals.


But here's the funny thing: the official narrative is that SARS-CoV-2 was spread to humans via a bat (an animal).

So now we have two contradictory statements. How do we hold these in our head, and still maintain we are being told the truth?
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Old 29th October 2021, 13:59     #1991
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
as we all know cats, dogs, horses etc requires jabs

we have known for over a year animals act as a reservoir

until we either eliminate or inoculate our pets total elimination strategy is impossible
who is "we"?
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Old 29th October 2021, 14:52     #1992
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Be careful, because there are three "weasle words" (phrases) in there.

"At this time" [subject to change]
"there is no evidence" [we are not stating that this is true, just that we don't have data which meets our criteria]
"significant role" [perhaps there have been instances, but they are not numerous]

Which of course, is not me suggesting that the opposite of the statement is true, but it's very carefully phrased. A more reassuring statement would read:

SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, cannot be spread to humans via animals.


But here's the funny thing: the official narrative is that SARS-CoV-2 was spread to humans via a bat (an animal).

So now we have two contradictory statements. How do we hold these in our head, and still maintain we are being told the truth?
There were reports last year that there was an animal that spread it.
So yes, there is your "significant" part.

At this time. Do you know what is great. They acknowledge that data and knowledge can change over time. Their mindset is not set in stone that cannot be changed like others.
This is what we want in society.

There is no evidence. Yep, that just goes hand in hand. Proving the absence of something is harder than proving something is there.
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Old 29th October 2021, 15:10     #1993
Lightspeed
 
The discussion that goes on here makes me grateful I've had the opportunity to learn history.

Some people really don't get how absurd they are when they compare current events to fascism and other totalitarianism. They don't get how much upheaval illness has caused throughout human history.

Projecting out their fear of not being in control, not realising how little control we ever have. Not willing to acknowledge that we can do our best and still get fucked, because that is the fear they can't face.

It's people willing to roll their sleeve up to do what they can who are instead afraid.

Hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers are dead as a result of this pandemic.

But that's too scary, it's surely got to be some kind of human factor that is the source of our woe, something within our control that's got to be changed. Ignore the pandemic you sheep! Be brave like me, like that time I didn't wear a uniform to work!
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Old 29th October 2021, 16:12     #1994
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Lightbulb

I'm just glad I think for myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers are dead as a result of this pandemic.
Quote:
Out of the 3.45 million COVID-19-related deaths reported to WHO, only 6643 were in HCWs.
Source

(The paper linked to from the citation on the page which provides an "estimate" of 80-150 000. They provide their methodology, and acknowledge it's just a rough estimate based on statistical wizardry of bad data [garbage in, garbage out], and not at all accurate. But go on, exaggerate further the propaganda as your argument - it is a just another example of how we ended up where we are.)

They also consider all sorts:
Quote:
In this database, HCWs are defined as “all staff involved in the provision of care to a COVID-19 patient” and further include allied and auxiliary health workers such as cleaning and laundry personnel, X-ray physicians and technicians, clerks (including admission/reception clerks), phlebotomists, respiratory therapists, nutritionists, social workers, physical therapists, laboratory personnel, orderlies (including staff moving patients), and catering staff.
I'm not saying these people's lives are any less important, but some of the included jobs are not highly skilled, so we're not exactly losing potential cures for cancer here. You screaming "hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers are dead!" vs "there have been 6643 reports of death among healthcare staff" is just a little bit of a stretch of the data we actually have. Even the fact that you used plural hundreds, instead of a single hundred suggests you intentionally exaggerated for effect.

Did you read the paper, or just the headline? Please tell me how you gained your knowledge. Please submit, in triplicate, witnessed by a JP, your credentials, all your grades ever, a complete academic whakapapa, a recent psychological evaluation and show us on the doll where you got touched.

I'm happy for you to mock me - but it doesn't add any credibility to your argument. If you can't understand that it takes individual actions to change society, then I don't really think you learned much from history.

And it _is_ a human factor that is the source of our woe. The virus did not shut down the country - the humans in government shut down the country. It is humans that are dictating who we can and cannot trade with, when we can see our family, what we must inject into our body, and whether we'll be able to earn money to survive. The virus did none of this of its own accord.
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Old 29th October 2021, 16:22     #1995
Lightspeed
 
Isn't it funny how those in the "I think for myself" club all say such similar things?
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Old 29th October 2021, 16:30     #1996
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Laugh

You could just admit you were wrong bro. Take the plunge... DO IT, I wanna hear you say it.
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Old 29th October 2021, 16:52     #1997
Lightspeed
 
I guess "I think for myself" sounds a little more grown up than "you can't make me!" which is really what's being said.
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Old 29th October 2021, 17:50     #1998
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
And it _is_ a human factor that is the source of our woe. The virus did not shut down the country - the humans in government shut down the country. It is humans that are dictating who we can and cannot trade with, when we can see our family, what we must inject into our body, and whether we'll be able to earn money to survive. The virus did none of this of its own accord.
I'm thankful that the primary source of our woe is the human factor. If left unchecked globally, I have zero doubt that this would have been a virus that kills tens if not hundreds of millions eventually. If my primary source of woe was the virus killing my loved ones, and humanity hadn't done anything to remediate it, that would be infinitely worse.

1918, Spanish Flu. 1/3rd of the world’s population caught the virus during the pandemic and between 50 million and 100 million people were killed.

Prefer that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
then I don't really think you learned much from history.
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Old 29th October 2021, 17:59     #1999
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Wait wait, tell me again Lightspeed, how many healthcare workers are dead from this pandemic?
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Old 29th October 2021, 18:39     #2000
Lightspeed
 
Hundreds of thousands are dead, according to reasonable sources, with reasonable consideration for uncertainty.

Wait wait, does that not fit with your feelings being persecuted like a Jew facing holocaust?
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