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Old 20th October 2021, 07:49     #1881
Cyberbob
 
Hey so has anyone seen any reliable info about where the transmissions are coming from?

Are they from close personal rendezvous, or from visiting the same retail store, or are they from people that never saw each other but stayed on the same hotel floor.

Or is that too much like analyising the results of the football game before it's even finished.
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Old 20th October 2021, 09:44     #1882
StN
I have detailed files
 
Oh the look of innocence on that young presenters face when he asked why a park on a Friday night might be a location of interest...
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Old 20th October 2021, 10:59     #1883
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#training

US WH&S saying the quiet bit out loud.
[...]
Reporting adverse reactions to vaccines totally optional.
Then there's always the fact that most people wouldn't know a adverse vaccine reaction from a flu or a heart-attack, or...
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Old 20th October 2021, 11:02     #1884
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I had a funny metallic taste in my mouth after AstraZeneca, who do I report it to?
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Old 20th October 2021, 11:16     #1885
crocos
 
Yeah, sorry man, that's not the AZ, it's the ballcancer.
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Old 20th October 2021, 11:22     #1886
crocos
 
Something for the "but one doctor/physio/scientist said vaccines bad" crowd:
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/202...d-vaccination/
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Old 20th October 2021, 13:31     #1887
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
Hey so has anyone seen any reliable info about where the transmissions are coming from?

Are they from close personal rendezvous, or from visiting the same retail store, or are they from people that never saw each other but stayed on the same hotel floor.

Or is that too much like analyising the results of the football game before it's even finished.
Thats what I have always thought was missing.
Of the locations of interest, how many were possible transmissions at that site.
How many transmissions were in a work place.
etc
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Old 20th October 2021, 13:36     #1888
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Cunning linguist BREAKING: Less than half of NZ doctors agree to mass vaccination

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocos
Something for the "but one doctor/physio/scientist said vaccines bad" crowd:
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/202...d-vaccination/
TLDR: After 7 weeks of spamming their colleagues, 6609 out of 16000+ (2018 count) NZ doctors agreed to sign a letter saying "please vaccinate".

Reminder - Under level 3, you are permitted to draw a conclusion from any group with up to 8000 signatories. Drawing a conclusion from any group with more than 8000 signatories is NOT permitted under level 3.
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Old 20th October 2021, 13:39     #1889
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
I'm only being facetious :P If it changes someone's mind, good on you for sharing Crocos. I do think that anyone who wants to be vaccinated should be. Don't misinterpret my position.

(Before the local last word gets in and tries to shame me into submission)
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Old 20th October 2021, 15:38     #1890
Lightspeed
 
Laugh

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Old 20th October 2021, 20:33     #1891
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
I had a funny metallic taste in my mouth after AstraZeneca, who do I report it to?
A friend of mine has had headaches, brain fog for seven weeks (AZ). Doctor referred him to this service: https://mvec.mcri.edu.au/references/...vices-network/

The wait list is long.

Not sure what the service is for SA.

My mum (70) had chills after first AZ shot, then about 5 weeks of being short of breath & not being able to sing (singing is her life). Called clinic that administered the shot and they weren't interested in recording her symptoms.
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Old 20th October 2021, 21:43     #1892
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Opposition MPs banned from vaxathon

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/opinion...portant-thing/
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Old 21st October 2021, 09:49     #1893
Nich
 
Delta infection: Unvaccinated and vaccinated people have similar levels of virus

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...evels-of-virus

Quote:
The researchers found that both unvaccinated and vaccinated people who had contracted the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant had similar peak levels of the virus.

Previously, vaccinated people who contracted the Alpha variant had lower peak levels of the virus than people who had not had a vaccination.
This article does say time between doses isn't a factor... other studies disagree (10-12 weeks are best for antibodies)

With vaccination, still a good idea to keep taking Vit D, Vit C, zinc, anti-viral nasal spray et al.
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Last edited by Nich : 21st October 2021 at 09:51.
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Old 21st October 2021, 11:12     #1894
fixed_truth
 
The Warehouse proposes compulsory vaccination for staff
More momentum from a big employer
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Old 21st October 2021, 11:56     #1895
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Lockdowns only slightly postponed deaths in NZ (University of Waikato)

Quote:
What was outside the range of prior experience was the surge in deaths starting in November and persisting past the end of February 2021... 100 more people died per week... totalling almost 1200 excess deaths. Ironically, the surge is especially apparent from week 51 when The Lancet published a letter from NZ authors that suggested that "any potential late adverse effects on mortality, resulting from reduced access to health care [during lockdowns], have not become apparent"
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Old 21st October 2021, 12:28     #1896
Lightspeed
 
Rolling eyes

I'd ask how you come across these studies and where can we find academic discussion around the results, but I know the answer will be some variation of "fuck you".
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Old 21st October 2021, 14:11     #1897
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Not at all, my friend.

I stumbled upon this tool called "the internet" - it's pretty amazing. You just send away for a floppy disc and buy a modem, and you can just type what you're interested in to a thing called a "search engine" and then you get presented with a list of "hyperlinks" - these are basically documents which are formatted so you can read them on your computer.

If you have any questions, let me know.
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Old 21st October 2021, 14:17     #1898
Lightspeed
 
Rolling eyes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
the answer will be some variation of "fuck you".
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Old 21st October 2021, 14:40     #1899
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
I stumbled upon this tool called "the internet" - it's pretty amazing. You just send away for a floppy disc and buy a modem, and you can just type what you're interested in to a thing called a "search engine" and then you get presented with a list of "hyperlinks" - these are basically documents which are formatted so you can read them on your computer.
Sounds like you've invested in some research there - well done.
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Old 21st October 2021, 14:54     #1900
fixed_truth
 
Lockdowns slightly postponed deaths? So? I'm more interested in how many extra people would have died if we didn't go into lockdown & the resultant long-term heathcare services back up.
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Old 21st October 2021, 15:11     #1901
Nich
 
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release

Quote:
Suicide was the 15th leading cause of death. People who died from suicide had median age at death of 43.5.
COVID-19 was the 38th leading cause of death, with 898 deaths recorded through the civil registration system.

Median age of COVID 19 death is 86.9. COVID lives up to its "boomer remover" nickname.

A death at 43 is more tragic than a death a 86. The way the ABS measures the tragedy weighting is by what they call YPLL (years of potential life lost).

Quote:
Suicide was a leading cause of premature death with 109,525 YPLL. People who died by suicide had a median age at death of 43.5.

COVID doesn't even enter the leaderboard for YPLL.
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Old 21st October 2021, 15:36     #1902
fixed_truth
 
Again with the vagueness. Suicide killed more people than covid. So .... ???
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Old 21st October 2021, 15:47     #1903
Nich
 
Ok, I'll walk you through it.

Median age of COVID death is 86 yo.

Median age of suicide is 43 yo.

COVID killed ~900 people in 2020 in Australia. Very little impact on YPLL.

Suicide at ~3,000 people in 2020 in Australia, with the largest YPLL.

1 COVID death does not = 1 suicide death.

Have lockdowns contributed to increased suicide? Yes
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...4750a0391b0653 .

Have the lockdowns stopped the spread of COVID? In Melbourne, no.
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Old 21st October 2021, 16:06     #1904
fixed_truth
 
Your link doesn't state that. And the lockdowns are to stagger the covid infection rate. You're ignoring how much worse things would be had this not happened.
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Old 21st October 2021, 16:35     #1905
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNZ March 2021
The Māori Party is reluctant to tell Māori to get the covid-19 injection, saying it's ultimately up to them.

The vaccine framework announced yesterday includes prioritising Māori and Pasifika living with whānau - and those with health needs living in South Auckland.

Almost $40 million has been set aside for the Māori health strategy - but Māori MPs say convincing whānau to roll up their sleeves for the jab will be a challenge.

Despite that, Māori party co-leader Rawiri Waititi won't tell Māori they should get the vaccine.

He spoke to Meriana Johnsen.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/progr...to-get-vaccine

aged like milk
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Old 21st October 2021, 17:58     #1906
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
Have the lockdowns stopped the spread of COVID? In Melbourne, no.
Has Melbourne had good compliance to pretty basic sanitary measures? Also no.
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Old 21st October 2021, 18:05     #1907
Lightspeed
 
What makes sense intuitively can turn out to be nonsense, and what seems like nonsense can turn out to be correct. Disciplined effort, depth of knowledge, academic discourse are the tools we use to figure out the difference.

Of course, it's nice to feel like we're smarter than everyone else, right? That we can figure things out just with our own wits.
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Old 21st October 2021, 18:36     #1908
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Your link doesn't state that. And the lockdowns are to stagger the covid infection rate. You're ignoring how much worse things would be had this not happened.
Yep, I'm confident that would have resulted in more COVID deaths killing elderly people, and less suicide deaths.
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Old 21st October 2021, 18:38     #1909
Lightspeed
 
How many younger people would kill themselves cause they can't bear long COVID? How many kill themselves in future years cause someone they depend who lost someone they depended on?

The truth is: we don't know. When we believe something we don't know, we discover our own biases.
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Old 21st October 2021, 19:35     #1910
fixed_truth
 
The lockdown is causing delays in healthcare which is unacceptable but somehow having no lockdown would mean that the strain on the healthcare system is less? Seriously?
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Old 21st October 2021, 20:33     #1911
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
How many younger people would kill themselves cause they can't bear long COVID? How many kill themselves in future years cause someone they depend who lost someone they depended on?

The truth is: we don't know. When we believe something we don't know, we discover our own biases.
Agreed, were discussing "what ifs". It is also a bias to say it would have been much worse if we closed the borders then let it burn through. And that hospitals would collapse. We don't know if that would have happened, but that is the shared fear we keep alive.
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Old 21st October 2021, 20:40     #1912
Lightspeed
 
I think the evidence is more robust in that regard however. Brazil is providing an excellent case study for instance.
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Old 21st October 2021, 21:48     #1913
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
It is also a bias to say it would have been much worse if we closed the borders then let it burn through. And that hospitals would collapse. We don't know if that would have happened, but that is the shared fear we keep alive.
I don't agree with that statement. It was pretty damn well covered in early 2020, the whole 'flatten the curve' rhetoric, and it's clear as day in countries that didn't lock down.
NZ has 180 ICU beds nation wide. You don't need to be a statistical genius to understand what happens if you let it burn through and exceed that number of critically ill hospitalised cases. Never mind all the non-covid requirements for ICU beds.

We'll never know the mental health impacts of a shortened or extended lockdown, and I'm sure it'll be gamed to hell in future 'what if' planning scenarios, but we absolutely know the healthcare sector impact of not doing it.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:03     #1914
blynk
 
I missed this earlier this week from National
Quote:
National has set its own target to end lockdowns and reopen to the world – 85-90 per cent of the 12+ population vaccinated. If that target is not reached by December 1 National would open up the country anyway
We are going to target 85-90%. But if we don't then thats ok. We will open anyway.

That just means all those people that maybe on the fence around vaccinations just won't do it.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:22     #1915
xor
 
The appointments are available, people can choose to get it, or not. It's up to them, nz needs to carry on before that 453% homeless stat turns into 553%.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:39     #1916
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Pretty quiet around here, are you guys feeling OK?

You're not celebrating all the good news?
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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:40     #1917
Lightspeed
 
Rolling eyes

Quit projecting. Just cause you're hooked on 1pm updates, doesn't mean the rest of us are.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 15:07     #1918
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
This was not a 1pm update buddy.

This was a 10am announcement of the regime.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 15:09     #1919
Lightspeed
 
facepalm

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Old 22nd October 2021, 19:02     #1920
pxpx
 
I couldnt care less about going to a bar or a restaurant or a gig. I just want to be able to work a full week and my kids to go to school.
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