Union action, fuck yeah - Page 3

Ab · 12th January 2012, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I don't really know much about stevedore work. Is it really skill-less? It seems like a job with a lot of room for fuck-ups and little tolerance to cope with them.

Apparently there is no prerequisite for dockside work, all training and instruction is performed on the job after hiring. Presumably at the above rates.

Lightspeed · 12th January 2012, 17:53

That doesn't really speak to the nature of the job though. And I imagine you have to complete the training and follow instruction to keep the job.

Still have no idea what the work is like though. A quick search throws up words like "busy" and "dangerous", but not much detail.

Although I do want to be clear that I don't believe that the nature of a job is the only factor to be considered when determining suitable remuneration. In fact, I think it's all really quite arbitrary. At least I am not aware of any consistent rules or standards that state how we should all get paid, beyond our minimum rights.

_Incubus_ · 12th January 2012, 18:27

Not sure of the sites you have been look at but the majority of their 'injuries' stem from long periods of sitting down...

http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/workplace...0-%20stevedore

aR Que · 13th January 2012, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

And I imagine you have to complete the training and follow instruction to keep the job.

Unlike other jobs O_o.

Ab · 13th January 2012, 12:48

Interesting comment I saw this morning: where's the fucking Labour Party?

This is a dockside dispute between one of the country's largest and most well-known unions and its corporate bosses at a high-profile port. And nobody from Labour has said a thing about it.

A Corpse · 13th January 2012, 13:33

Are you surprised they're keeping out of these utter clusterfuck situations for once?

CCS · 13th January 2012, 13:42

Requesting user tag for lolspeed: faux-naïf (yes, I saw it on dictionary.com. And I thought, I know someone like that)

Saladin · 13th January 2012, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Interesting comment I saw this morning: where's the fucking Labour Party?

Reading no right turn eh? You dirty lefty!

Lightspeed · 13th January 2012, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Interesting comment I saw this morning: where's the fucking Labour Party?

Oh fuck, that's right! The Labour party! We still have one of those.

fixed_truth · 13th January 2012, 23:40

Quote:

Last night, the union released a "labour strategy" by the ports management, which Mr Parsloe said showed the company intended to contract out the workforce to private contractors before collective agreement negotiations began last year.

"There was never any intention to genuinely negotiate or mediate, there has just been public relations spin and an extreme anti-worker agenda," Mr Parsloe said.

A Ports spokeswoman said the document was a draft, never represented company policy, and the author had been made redundant.

Mr Gibson had been committed to collective bargaining with no pre-determined plan to contract out the union workforce, she said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/employment...ectid=10778409

crocos · 14th January 2012, 00:04

Regardless of who is telling the truth in that, having a backup plan in event that the contracts went the way they have gone is a logical and sound business strategy.

CCS · 14th January 2012, 00:42

Having seen the pdf of that document, it is not signed and still has a lot of template stuff still in place. It's clearly a draft and so the PoA can believed on that one.

spigalau · 14th January 2012, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

Having seen the pdf of that document, it is not signed and still has a lot of template stuff still in place. It's clearly a draft and so the PoA can believed on that one.

Was Nicky Hager crawling though the e-trash again ?

Ab · 14th January 2012, 15:08

numbers:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10778573

Lightspeed · 14th January 2012, 16:43

I may have read this wrong, but this what I get.

POA pays ~$99k on average to its 522 employees.
POT pays ~$97k on average to its 190 employees + $unknown to its unknown volume of contractors.

So we're not really any clearer on how much difference there is between what POA and POT pay those who work for it. Although it does seem clearer that the issue goes way beyond wages or even working hours.

Ab · 14th January 2012, 22:07

Each team is getting paid a lot of money. Which is doing a better job?

Lightspeed · 14th January 2012, 22:21

Apparently POT.

Which team has the higher cost of living?

fixed_truth · 15th January 2012, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Each team is getting paid a lot of money. Which is doing a better job?

Not the one getting the BBQ's & bonuses for their productivity increase?

But seriously if the difference in total remuneration between the ports is negligible and it really comes down to productivity differences; then it needs to be asked to what degree this difference is to do with 'flexibility of employee hours' and how much the ports different productivity systems are a relevant consideration.

For example we've got the union claiming that 'the port is the second most time-efficient in Australasia, next to Tauranga. The advantage Tauranga has is not its workforce, but the system it uses. The union has offered to assist implementing that system in Auckland.'

JiggaRoll · 16th January 2012, 08:51

I worked one summer on the wharf when I was younger. Wasn't fulltime just what they called a 'seagull'.

Usually worked 16hr shifts 3-4 times a week getting about $16/h for the evening one then $18 or $20 for the late. Was pretty decent money for what the job was. (This was in 2003). I think the next pay level up was between $23-26/h and then full time was $30+

Would show up and get given a job for the shift. Most of them were mind numbingly tedious like taking the twistlocks off the bottom of the containers before they landed on the wharf or lining up the spreader to land on a container to pick it up.

If you were working with guys that were good one of you could have a sleep in the hut/van for a couple of hours while the others did all the work then you would swap over.

Working on the ship could be pretty dangerous, specially when you are at the end of a 16hr shift and it is pissing down with rain and windy and you are on the deck standing on a stack of 4+ containers trying to guide a spreader in to pick up the container. Had a couple of close calls where the spreader came around too fast and the only thing you could do was jump on it and then swing out over the wharf and pray that you don't fall off.

I can understand the negotiations getting no where as some of the old guys working there won't accept any changes and live in the past when they got all their meals provided for free or heavily subsidised etc.

cyc · 16th January 2012, 14:15

Helen Kelly and the CTU announce that this dispute is their top priority. Read: they are going to come and fuck things up even more. Rejoice, everyone.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...p-CTU-priority

MrTTTT · 16th January 2012, 14:49

nzgames = a bunch of national-supporting wankers

CCS · 16th January 2012, 15:04

MrTTTT = total penis

[Malks] Pixie · 16th January 2012, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

MrTTTT = totally correct penis

Fixed for accuracy.

Pixie

CCS · 16th January 2012, 15:12

Haha, right. We're wankers because we hate your favourite party? Good one.

[Malks] Pixie · 16th January 2012, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

Haha, right. We're wankers because we hate your favourite party? Good one.

Umm if that was directed at me then you've got the wrong target - I'm no labour voter. However he is right that the degree of rhetoric surrounding both National and Labour has turned pretty "wankerish" on here to the point that it's fool hardy to even engage some people in conversation about anything involving politics. If you are brave and you do engage then it pretty quickly turns into ideologically based name calling within two or three posts.

I actually used to quite enjoy reading some of politics threads (even if some users were still prone to being abusive) because I could often learn something from the conversation.

Pixie

Lightspeed · 16th January 2012, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTTTT

nzgames = a bunch of national-supporting wankers

Not true. The polls from the last two elections show that NZGamers largely support the two major left wing parties.

It's just that the people who are most vocal about politics on NZG are right leaning. You can make of that what you will.

Lightspeed · 16th January 2012, 15:50

Actually, "largely" is probably an exaggeration, but certainly at least as many support left wing parties as right.

_Incubus_ · 16th January 2012, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

It's just that the people who are most vocal about politics on NZG are right leaning.

And apparently after the last election so is the rest of NZ...also to your point there seems to be an imbalance with NZG having significantly higher percentage of left wing supporters than what I'd expect, although I do wonder how many ticked "Green" on those polls just to be internet heroes on NZG..

Cynos · 16th January 2012, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Incubus_

And apparently after the last election so is the rest of NZ...

64% voter turnout, 50%ish voted right-wing, so 32% of NZ explicitly voted right-wing. Clearly, a majority.

Cynos · 16th January 2012, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

see above

I'm afraid that numbers coming out from POAL have proven to be horribly biased. I give them as much credence as I give the claims from MUNZ.

Ab · 16th January 2012, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynos

numbers coming out from POAL have proven to be horribly biased.

By whom, where?

_Incubus_ · 16th January 2012, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynos

64% voter turnout, 50%ish voted right-wing, so 32% of NZ explicitly voted right-wing. Clearly, a majority.

Clearly...look at the election result...unless you know of some silent majority of left wing greenies that forgot to turn up and vote?

CCS · 16th January 2012, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynos

64% voter turnout, 50%ish voted right-wing, so 32% of NZ explicitly voted right-wing. Clearly, a majority.

Percentage of voter turnout is meaningless. If you didn't turn out to vote, then you don't matter. That's how it works. We only give a shit about who cast their vote.

BTW, guess what? National won. Hurts, eh?

Ab · 16th January 2012, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyc

Helen Kelly and the CTU announce that this dispute is their top priority.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...p-CTU-priority

It's working already!

Quote:

The Maritime Union of New Zealand has issued a sixth strike notice to Ports of Auckland, the latest in a bitter dispute between workers and its employer that has been dragging on for months.

The union began negotiations in August with Ports of Auckland against a proposal to move staff to flexible working hours that would see them work on a changing roster and be required to be on call at times.

Today it issued its sixth strike notice that its members would not be working between 7am Tuesday 31 January and 7am 1 February, pushing Ports of Auckland to consult with new contractors to take over the union members' work.

Boy, when Helen Kelly gets involved things move quickly.

Lightspeed · 16th January 2012, 19:28

This election, the NZG results are:
55 to Labour + Green
51 to all other parties

Last election
85 to Labour + Green
91 to all other parties (♥ ACT)

So pretty even. But I think we hear a lot more from the right hand side of the fence...

cyc · 16th January 2012, 20:17

There's something really rather funny about politics threads on NZG. The useless hard left idiots constantly rag on about how people who disagree with them are terribly right wing blah blah blah. Dear lefties, I have news: just because I don't support Labour it doesn't necessarily mean that I automatically back the right or happen to be hard right-leaning.

cyc · 16th January 2012, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Boy, when Helen Kelly gets involved things move quickly.

Oh and it's good to see the biased fuckwits at Stuff leaving out various pertinent facts from their latest article, the most pertinent of which is the PoA making clear that under their proposed new labour arrangements, the union scumbags can actually fix their rosters one month ahead of time.

As for these "workers", the sooner the jobs are privatised and these guys hit for six, the better.

MrTTTT · 16th January 2012, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyc

As for these "workers", the sooner the jobs are privatised and these guys hit for six, the better.

What a hard-line Murray Deaker guy.

cyc · 18th January 2012, 00:14

.... bend over, PoA!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...n-port-dispute

Cynos · 18th January 2012, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

Percentage of voter turnout is meaningless. If you didn't turn out to vote, then you don't matter.

...and if you didn't turn up to vote then you don't explicitly support any political party, do you? Incubus said rest of NZ not rest of the people who voted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

National won. Hurts, eh?

Oh no, a government that wasn't woefully incompetent was elected to a second term. I am shocked and stunned.

13th January 2012, 13:33	#86
A Corpse talkative lurker	Are you surprised they're keeping out of these utter clusterfuck situations for once? __________________ Broke my addiction! Bye bye Eve, hello Minecraft. Wait... >_<

13th January 2012, 13:42	#87
CCS Stunt Pants	Requesting user tag for lolspeed: faux-naïf (yes, I saw it on dictionary.com. And I thought, I know someone like that) __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

14th January 2012, 00:42	#92
CCS Stunt Pants	Having seen the pdf of that document, it is not signed and still has a lot of template stuff still in place. It's clearly a draft and so the PoA can believed on that one. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

16th January 2012, 14:15	#100
cyc Objection!	Good news Helen Kelly and the CTU announce that this dispute is their top priority. Read: they are going to come and fuck things up even more. Rejoice, everyone. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...p-CTU-priority

16th January 2012, 15:04	#102
CCS Stunt Pants	MrTTTT = total penis __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

12th January 2012, 17:53	#82
Lightspeed	That doesn't really speak to the nature of the job though. And I imagine you have to complete the training and follow instruction to keep the job. Still have no idea what the work is like though. A quick search throws up words like "busy" and "dangerous", but not much detail. Although I do want to be clear that I don't believe that the nature of a job is the only factor to be considered when determining suitable remuneration. In fact, I think it's all really quite arbitrary. At least I am not aware of any consistent rules or standards that state how we should all get paid, beyond our minimum rights. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

12th January 2012, 18:27	#83
_Incubus_	Not sure of the sites you have been look at but the majority of their 'injuries' stem from long periods of sitting down... http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/workplace...0-%20stevedore

13th January 2012, 12:48	#85
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Interesting comment I saw this morning: where's the fucking Labour Party? This is a dockside dispute between one of the country's largest and most well-known unions and its corporate bosses at a high-profile port. And nobody from Labour has said a thing about it.

14th January 2012, 00:04	#91
crocos	Regardless of who is telling the truth in that, having a backup plan in event that the contracts went the way they have gone is a logical and sound business strategy. __________________ Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية

14th January 2012, 15:08	#94
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	numbers: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10778573

14th January 2012, 16:43	#95
Lightspeed	I may have read this wrong, but this what I get. POA pays ~$99k on average to its 522 employees. POT pays ~$97k on average to its 190 employees + $unknown to its unknown volume of contractors. So we're not really any clearer on how much difference there is between what POA and POT pay those who work for it. Although it does seem clearer that the issue goes way beyond wages or even working hours. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

14th January 2012, 22:07	#96
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Each team is getting paid a lot of money. Which is doing a better job?

14th January 2012, 22:21	#97
Lightspeed	Apparently POT. Which team has the higher cost of living? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

16th January 2012, 08:51	#99
JiggaRoll For the Horo	I worked one summer on the wharf when I was younger. Wasn't fulltime just what they called a 'seagull'. Usually worked 16hr shifts 3-4 times a week getting about $16/h for the evening one then $18 or $20 for the late. Was pretty decent money for what the job was. (This was in 2003). I think the next pay level up was between $23-26/h and then full time was $30+ Would show up and get given a job for the shift. Most of them were mind numbingly tedious like taking the twistlocks off the bottom of the containers before they landed on the wharf or lining up the spreader to land on a container to pick it up. If you were working with guys that were good one of you could have a sleep in the hut/van for a couple of hours while the others did all the work then you would swap over. Working on the ship could be pretty dangerous, specially when you are at the end of a 16hr shift and it is pissing down with rain and windy and you are on the deck standing on a stack of 4+ containers trying to guide a spreader in to pick up the container. Had a couple of close calls where the spreader came around too fast and the only thing you could do was jump on it and then swing out over the wharf and pray that you don't fall off. I can understand the negotiations getting no where as some of the old guys working there won't accept any changes and live in the past when they got all their meals provided for free or heavily subsidised etc.

16th January 2012, 14:49	#101
MrTTTT	nzgames = a bunch of national-supporting wankers

16th January 2012, 15:12	#104
CCS Stunt Pants	Haha, right. We're wankers because we hate your favourite party? Good one. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

16th January 2012, 15:50	#107
Lightspeed	Actually, "largely" is probably an exaggeration, but certainly at least as many support left wing parties as right. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

16th January 2012, 19:28	#115
Lightspeed	This election, the NZG results are: 55 to Labour + Green 51 to all other parties Last election 85 to Labour + Green 91 to all other parties (♥ ACT) So pretty even. But I think we hear a lot more from the right hand side of the fence... __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

16th January 2012, 20:17	#116
cyc Objection!	There's something really rather funny about politics threads on NZG. The useless hard left idiots constantly rag on about how people who disagree with them are terribly right wing blah blah blah. Dear lefties, I have news: just because I don't support Labour it doesn't necessarily mean that I automatically back the right or happen to be hard right-leaning.

18th January 2012, 00:14	#119
cyc Objection!	Auckland Council Board Members Speak Out.... .... bend over, PoA! http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...n-port-dispute