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Old 25th April 2019, 11:35     #4841
fixed_truth
 
Mike Hosking: Capital Gains Tax 'no' should be repeated on Crusaders name change issue

Quote:
Regular middle New Zealand has an unshakeable sense of right and wrong and what's logical and sensible and what isn't.

And changing the name of a rugby team for no result or purpose is one of those things we seem to agree on.
This guy. Just when you think he can't get any more douchey.
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Old 25th April 2019, 14:09     #4842
Lightspeed
 
Turkey makes arrest in alleged Gallipoli plot

Quote:
Turkey has already banned its own citizens from attending the Anzac Day dawn service at Gallipoli because of security concerns.
I call bullshit. More like the government doesn't want its citizens remembering that this wasn't a religious war like they're now making it out to be.
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Old 29th April 2019, 01:02     #4843
Lightspeed
 
Port shift: Government looking to expand rail, says National

Quote:
The National Party says a report into shifting the Ports of Auckland to Whangārei or Tauranga is a thinly disguised attempt to promote rail.
Tricksie government with their plans to build infrastructure.

Seriously though, we need electrified rail up and down the country. People would use it if they had to pay the true cost up front of emissions generating travel, instead of getting it on the cheap, pretending its not going to bite us in the arse.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 14:08     #4844
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Our tax dollars at work
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Old 2nd May 2019, 14:50     #4845
StN
I have detailed files
 
^^ Yeah - I saw a link to that a few weeks back, and posted on the Intranet that we should not in any circumstances do this. People wanted to know if I was being sarcastic. My moon monkey face palmed.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 07:59     #4846
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Another senior Treasury staffer testifies to the transformational nature of the experiment on his team.
I wonder if this is an administrative branch or the actual economic and financial policy numbers guys because that would be promising.

I remember a Dots course which I went into thinking it would be glorified astrology but was actually quite useful in understanding peoples communication style. The Crusaders swear by it apparently.

I'm all for challenging the status quo, NZs got a big problem with things like bullying (incl. workplace) and suicide so if something seems a bit wooly but also has good outcomes then why not?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 20:14     #4847
Deadmeat
 
Has Bridges come out against marriage yet?
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Old 8th May 2019, 10:58     #4848
Lightspeed
 
Watching on the news an Israeli lament the ceasefire, saying they need to take the opportunity to destroy the terrorists once and for all. Like some kind of, how might you call it, final solution?
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Old 8th May 2019, 15:08     #4849
xor
 
Or they could just be defending themselves against the 600 odd rockets that were fired by Hamas? Seems more than reasonable to me.
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Old 8th May 2019, 15:43     #4850
Lightspeed
 
Rolling eyes

Yeah, that's just what's happening. There's nothing more too it. Foolish me.
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Old 8th May 2019, 17:35     #4851
Lightspeed
 
National MP Nick Smith named in Parliament and suspended

Quote:
Dr Smith accused the Speaker Trevor Mallard of being "soft on drugs, like the government''.
Fuck you Nick Smith. It was under National synthetic drugs and meth ran rampant. It was under National that drink driver testing plummeted.

Fucking cunt with his fucking alcohol flushed face.

Someone needs to poll our MPs as to how much alcohol they consume a week.
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Old 8th May 2019, 18:37     #4852
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Yeah, that's just what's happening. There's nothing more too it. Foolish me.
Keen to hear your view in that case...
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Old 8th May 2019, 20:42     #4853
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Someone needs to poll our MPs as to how much alcohol they consume a week.
Our Deputy PM will be at the top
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Old 8th May 2019, 21:13     #4854
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Mr Smith told Checkpoint he did not think Mr Mallard was a neutral referee.

"He's not, he should never have objected to the introduction to the bill," he said.

"He should have maintained the Parliamentary practice that when an MP such as myself seeks leave for a bill to be introduced, to put it to the House and for the house to decide.

"When the speaker starts engaging in a debate about the issues and not being the referee, he leaves himself open to the very criticism that undermines respect for his office."
I'm lost, what was the bill?
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:23     #4855
Juju
get to da choppa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
I'm lost, what was the bill?
Smith sought leave of the house for the 'Land Transport Roadside Drug Testing Amendment bill' to be set down as the first members order of the day, on the next members day (I have no idea what that even means).
Mallard declined, so Smith threw his toys.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:10     #4856
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
The situation came to a head after the mother of a young man killed by a drugged driver was yelling at the Police Minister Stuart Nash from the public gallery.
I presume she was a constituent of Smith’s, or he was in some way speaking for her from the floor?
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Old 9th May 2019, 13:23     #4857
pxpx
 
Maybe he was doing it on purpose to get a bit of attention for her petition (assuming Karen Dow is the woman who injected from the gallery):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff.co.nz
"Karen Dow, whose son was killed by a drug-driver, said she was "absolutely appalled" by what happened in Parliament. Matthew Dow died in Nelson on New Year's Eve in 2017 after his car was hit by another driver who was high on methamphetamine.

"I feel completely disgusted that this has happened. Kiwis are supposed to have a voice …. This has been shut down…"

Nash had misled her and 78 other families who had lost a loved one though drug-driving, she said.

Shortly after he was kicked out, Smith received 'Mathew's petition' on Parliament's steps. The petition from Dow seeks the urgent introduction of random roadside saliva testing for drug impairment."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...from-the-house
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Old 9th May 2019, 14:09     #4858
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Yeah my very first thought was "this sounds like theatrics to get attention for a particular person's issue".
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Old 9th May 2019, 15:41     #4859
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
Keen to hear your view in that case...
Where would one start? Probably with Napoleon invading Egypt and subsequent British colonisation in the region. More recently Catastrophe Day in Palestine, where Arabs were forced out of their homes to make way for Israel. Culminating in today where you've got 2 million people trapped in Gaza, an area a 3rd of the size of Auckland, plus another 3 million living on the West Bank. With no freedom of movement, poor access to education, healthcare, clean water or food, no security, no hope for the future. Generation after generation never having known peace expected to live peaceful lives.

It's a complex issue, with few facts that aren't subject to vigorous claims of distortion and bias. There's no "just" anything. It's a steaming pile of bullshit.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 9th May 2019 at 15:42.
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Old 9th May 2019, 16:39     #4860
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
National MP Nick Smith named in Parliament and suspended


Fucking cunt with his fucking alcohol flushed face.
Herald's take:

Quote:
Smith had been questioning Police Minister Stuart Nash in relation to the death of Matthew Dow, 23, who was killed at Appleby near Nelson on New Years Eve in 2017 by a driver high on meth and cannabis.

Smith asked Nash if he stood by his statement to TVNZ last December when he had said a discussion document on roadside drug testing had been approved by cabinet and would be made public early in 2019.

Karen Dow, the dead man's mother, interjected from the public gallery after Nash said he could not discuss what went on in cabinet.

She said she was that child's mother and she saw Mr Nash making that statement on national television.

Nash said he did not recall making that statement on television - public records show he did say it – but work was being done in that area.

Smith: "Will the minister apologise to the mother of Matthew Dow, who would have turned 25 today if not killed by a reckless drug-driver, given that he misled her in saying that Cabinet had approved a discussion document and that it was to be released earlier this year.

Nash said while he had sympathy for the Dow family and could not imagine their loss, he would not apologise for something he had absolutely no responsibility for.

Smith then sought leave of the House to give priority next members' day to a bill that would have introduced drug-testing for drivers.

But Mallard, in a highly unusual move, did not put the leave motion (in which the objection of any MP can block a move).


When asked why by Smith, Mallard said that he himself would not grant leave for it.

Smith accused Mallard of opposing moves to keep drug-drivers off the road. Mallard said he was very unhappy with Smith's approach.

Smith: "For standing up for my constituents?"

Mallard ordered him out of the House and when Smith yelled out "soft on drugs like the Government", Mallard ordered him to return and moved a motion naming Smith.
what a cunt
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Old 9th May 2019, 16:46     #4861
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Where would one start? Probably with Napoleon invading Egypt and subsequent British colonisation in the region. More recently Catastrophe Day in Palestine, where Arabs were forced out of their homes to make way for Israel. Culminating in today where you've got 2 million people trapped in Gaza, an area a 3rd of the size of Auckland, plus another 3 million living on the West Bank. With no freedom of movement, poor access to education, healthcare, clean water or food, no security, no hope for the future. Generation after generation never having known peace expected to live peaceful lives.

It's a complex issue, with few facts that aren't subject to vigorous claims of distortion and bias. There's no "just" anything. It's a steaming pile of bullshit.
That's an interesting observation. What made you start with the French as a timeline?
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Old 9th May 2019, 16:47     #4862
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
what a cunt
Definitely a cunt. Using a person's grief to further their political agenda in such a cynical manner.

Where were National's efforts the past nine years to reduce the road toll? Alcohol and drug related vehicle deaths are as high as ever.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 9th May 2019 at 16:49.
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Old 9th May 2019, 16:48     #4863
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
That's an interesting observation. What made you start with the French as a timeline?
I'm not an expert, but that seems to be what triggered British colonisation in the region, the British being in control of the region at the point Arabs were forced from their homes.
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Old 9th May 2019, 17:09     #4864
xor
 
That's a fair point. What would you suggest is the correct response for Israel to take in the region?
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Old 9th May 2019, 17:21     #4865
Lightspeed
 
It depends on what Israel wants I suppose. The current Israeli government and Hamas are codependent, neither exists for long without the other. The power both enjoy depends on maintaining the status quo.
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Old 10th May 2019, 09:38     #4866
Juju
get to da choppa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Alcohol and drug related vehicle deaths are as high as ever.
No, no they are not. Not even close. Might want to fact check before spouting rubbish.

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets...drugs-2017.pdf

Have a look at page 8.
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Old 10th May 2019, 11:27     #4867
fixed_truth
 
AA report a different trend

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime...n-drinkdrivers
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:31     #4868
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
where?
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:51     #4869
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juju
No, no they are not. Not even close. Might want to fact check before spouting rubbish.

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets...drugs-2017.pdf

Have a look at page 8.
Steady on. I was looking at some research just the other day that showed alcohol contributed to deaths at rates that been steady for a couple of decades. There was a drop in the 90s I think?

I'll have to look it up again when I'm at home.

I'm not fucking just pulling shit out of the air.
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Old 10th May 2019, 14:58     #4870
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
where?
I though these parts
Quote:
AA road safety spokesman Dylan Thomsen said the figures showed drug-driving was an increasing problem in New Zealand
Quote:
DRIVERS INVOLVED IN FATAL CRASHES

2017: Drugs proven - 79; above the alcohol limit or test refused - 70 (later updated to 74)

2016: Drugs - 59; alcohol - 67

2015: Drugs - 27; alcohol - 66

2014: Drugs - 14; alcohol - 48

2013: Drugs - 14; alcohol - 53
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Old 12th May 2019, 18:28     #4871
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
I though these parts
Those numbers don't show anything, other than that the AA sucks at statistics.

Did the methods for drug testing and reporting change during that time? Was the 2013 test exactly the same as the 2017 test? Why is the comparison between "any trace of drugs whatsoever" vs "alcohol above the legal limit"?
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Old 12th May 2019, 19:46     #4872
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juju
No, no they are not. Not even close. Might want to fact check before spouting rubbish.

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets...drugs-2017.pdf

Have a look at page 8.
This is the same data I was looking at. I'm not sure sure what stark downward trend you're referring to that evoked your reaction.

The lowest was in 1999, the highest 1990, with another peak in 2010, the latest data in the graph is about the middle of that.

What evokes a reaction in this forum and what doesn't is fucking revealing.
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Old 13th May 2019, 08:31     #4873
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Those numbers don't show anything, other than that the AA sucks at statistics.

Did the methods for drug testing and reporting change during that time? Was the 2013 test exactly the same as the 2017 test? Why is the comparison between "any trace of drugs whatsoever" vs "alcohol above the legal limit"?
I don't know. How can anyone make accurate statements about drug driving fatalities if that's the case?
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Old 13th May 2019, 08:49     #4874
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
I don't know. How can anyone make accurate statements about drug driving fatalities if that's the case?




You really can't.


Note the addendum that specifically addresses Ab's "Why is the comparison between "any trace of drugs whatsoever" vs "alcohol above the legal limit"?":

Quote:
* Roger Brooking, from the Drink Driving Intervention Trust, contests the article's premise, because the AA did not include road deaths from alcohol-related accidents where the driver was under the legal limit. NZTA reports that "there were 80 road deaths involving drivers that had a non-zero evidential alcohol reading below the legal limit...". Brooking says: "In other words, 154 deaths were alcohol-related and 79 were drug-related."
So 154 alcohol related, 79 drug related. Got it.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:28     #4875
fixed_truth
 
Yeah the criminality of drugs seems to make it all messy. I agree with AA that alcohol readings under the legal limit should not be a consideration* but to be consistent the same should apply for other drugs, but there doesn't seem to be set thresholds for what's considered dangerous. Interestingly iirc there is thresholds in workplace testing.

*because at these low levels I think it's difficult to isolate other variables like fatigue and general poor driving skills.

edit: And what about combined drugs i.e, if your under the alcohol limit (but alcohol is present) and say meth is present also (but under the limit)? Messy alright.
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Last edited by fixed_truth : 13th May 2019 at 09:30.
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Old 13th May 2019, 10:39     #4876
Cyberbob
 
What about prescription medication that states a user should not be operating heavy machinery. Your mind might go to forklifts but they're talking about vehicles.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:36     #4877
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
So 154 alcohol related, 79 drug related. Got it.
And as always remember that correlation is not causation.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:59     #4878
Lightspeed
 
You reckon give drink/drug drivers the benefit of the doubt?

As an aside, it annoys me differentiating alcohol from other drugs. I would just say drugs outright, but I figure people would assume I mean drugs other than alcohol.
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Old 13th May 2019, 13:04     #4879
Cyberbob
 
What we need is a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.

Any volunteers?
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Old 13th May 2019, 13:06     #4880
pxpx
 
Sorry no volunteers, that's anti-selection.
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