NZF+ACT+National thus far...

[Lightspeed]

Smokefree law changes a 'completely backwards step' - health experts

The incoming finance minister has admitted that New Zealand's world-first smokefree laws have been scrapped to fund tax cuts.

National's coalition deal with New Zealand First - released yesterday - says it will repeal amendments to the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Act 1990 and regulations before March 2024

Imagine this government during the pandemic.

"Lives? Uuh, hello, money is on the line here!"

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Imagine this government during the pandemic.

"Lives? Uuh, hello, money is on the line here!"

I've always said, had we been under a National Govt at the time of the Pandemic, we would have lost a shit more lives and probably would have had overflowed hospitals.
National is for businesses and the rich n' wealthy.

[DrTiTus]

This change of government will mean we no longer normalise fags to young people and instead normalise fags to young people.

Also, I like your choice of thread title, I was thinking it should be the same thing, in the same order, since that's the true ranking of who's calling the shots.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Caesar

I've always said, had we been under a National Govt at the time of the Pandemic, we would have lost a shit more lives and probably would have had overflowed hospitals.
National is for businesses and the rich n' wealthy.

Yeah but I was also told I would take up a hospital bed and all the unvaccinated would be begging for treatment and regret being so selfish and that never happened, so maybe your reckons aren't worth shit.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Smokefree law changes a 'completely backwards step' - health experts



Imagine this government during the pandemic.

"Lives? Uuh, hello, money is on the line here!"

Every generation has to re-learn that prohibition doesn’t work.

[fixed_truth]

National's financial plan before election - Foreign BuyersTax to pay for income tax cuts.

Nek minnit um... we'll still fund taxs cuts somehow but don't worry we're putting Maori in their place and shitting on those most vulnerable!

And we've got 3years of this clown show.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Every generation has to re-learn that prohibition doesn’t work.

It seems like SmokeFree has been pretty effective in NZ. I barely encounter smokers these days.

I guess you're right, because it wasn't prohibition. Cigarettes were always still available for sale.

[Ab]

In the same way that alcohol was always available for purchase during the Prohibition Era in the USA.

[Lightspeed]

Not legally?

And what's not working? Smoking is right down, there's no clandestine demand driving a thriving black market is there?

[StN]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Not legally?

And what's not working? Smoking is right down, there's no clandestine demand driving a thriving black market is there?

Not sure if facetious, but I know many dairies that are being supplied (by gangs?) with cheap Chinese black market cigs that are sold without the overhead (of stickers and tarrifs).

[Lightspeed]

I'm not, keen to hear more tho. How big of an issue is this?

Especially when balanced against the evidence of dramatically reduced rates of smoking.

[Ab]

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/tax...pdf?1689202217

[Lightspeed]

The illicit tobacco market in New Zealand

Our Report indicates that the consumption of illicit tobacco declined at a slower rate than total consumption. This is due to a decline in volumes of both unbranded tobacco (10.6% p.a.) and contraband (8.9%) in 2022. As a result, illicit tobacco consumption as a proportion of total consumption represented approximately 12.1% in 2022, which is an increase of 0.6 pp from 2019. However, the share of illicit tobacco mix remained consistent with 2019. Unbranded tobacco accounted for the largest share, representing c.57% of the total illicit tobacco consumption, whereas the share of contraband increased marginally since 2019 to represent 43% of the total mix in 2022. Counterfeit accounted for only 0.1% of the total illicit consumption. If all of the illicit tobacco had been consumed in the legitimate market, it would have represented an excise amount of approximately NZD 247.8 million at the 2022 excise rate.

[fixed_truth]

Getting more poor people to smoke (& get sick & die) as a way to create revenue to fund tax cuts for the rich is just embarrassing.

[Lightspeed]

I dunno, this isn't the only context where I've seen people more interested in discussing the pros and cons of prohibition.

The poors can suffer their lot. 🤷

[Ab]

Wait until you hear about alcohol, you'll shit bricks

[Lightspeed]

Yeah, no sports for kiwi kids unless alcohol gets to advertise in sports grounds. 🤷

[Cyberbob]

I'm all for reducing cigarette use, and putting it to big tobacco, but let's call a spade a spade, the Smokefree initiatives weren't working.

When I worked at Quitline in 2004-2008, It was "Smokefree 2012"

The org that was running the Quitline, The Quit Group, was disestablished in 2015 and the function was wedged into Telehealth.

Then it became Smokefree 2020.

Then 2025, with no confidence that it was going to end there.

[Lightspeed]

You reckon Willis is barking up the wrong tree if they're counting on a bump smoking tax revenue to fill their budget hole?

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

I'm all for reducing cigarette use, and putting it to big tobacco, but let's call a spade a spade, the Smokefree initiatives weren't working.

Do you not think that the decreasing rates of smoking are due to Smoke free initiatives?

[blynk]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

You reckon Willis is barking up the wrong tree if they're counting on a bump smoking tax revenue to fill their budget hole?

Well, they were making up some fanciful numbers from the Foreigns buyers tax. So I wouldn't be surprised

[blynk]

But they haven't even been sworn in for a whole day and I have already heard the rhetoric that the prev govt left the books in a worse state.

I'm not 100% sure how that would happen, aren't the books all opened up for the election.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

I'm all for reducing cigarette use, and putting it to big tobacco, but let's call a spade a spade, the Smokefree initiatives weren't working.

Also: legalise cannabis!

[fixed_truth]

Cannabis can be smoked so it must be an equivalent drug to cigarettes!

[Lightspeed]

The very opposite of social investment

Reversal of smoke-free laws to pay for tax cuts estimated by Treasury to add $5.25b in health costs, cut productivity growth by $5.88b and destroy 588,000 Health Adjusted Life Years

[Ab]

Oh god, all of a sudden everyone's realising that Bill English's social investment theory was actually fucking great.

[StN]

They can't see past pizza spaghetti...

[blynk]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

The very opposite of social investment

I can't help but think Bishop is sitting thinking how he is going to slot right back into the tobacco industry with a very nice pay rise.

[Cyberbob]

Wait until someone figures out how much the rebranding of the public sector is going to cost.

[Ab]

Can someone remind me why public sector entities need to be brands? Like, why the fuck does Kainga Ora need a logo and a colour scheme and a typeface?

[Lightspeed]

Part pissing contest, part illusion of getting something done? Or perhaps the mask while the gritty work gets done that those involved want the public's sticky nose kept out of?

[xor]

Originally Posted by Ab

Can someone remind me why public sector entities need to be brands? Like, why the fuck does Kainga Ora need a logo and a colour scheme and a typeface?

island building and trying to justify one's value to exist as a dept.

[Lightspeed]

So far I'm getting a very "own the libs" vibe from this government.

RMA demise sends councils into tailspin

Westland Mayor Helen Lash says behind the scenes the sudden scrapping of so many policies has thrown councils into confusion.

The new West Coast district plan is too far down the track to be “parked” but councils have no idea how it will sit with the new government’s direction, she says.

“It’s a bloody mess when you think about it. There’s now so much sitting in limbo.

“It’s fine to say gone by Christmas but what will replace it? What guidelines do we work to?

“And if they’re going to throw half the rules out, who pays for us to redo them?”

In hindsight local government should have pressed Act and National harder before the election for a steer on what structures would replace the reforms, Lash says.

[Cyberbob]

I think Luxon went to too many Q&A's, attracted far too many people that take issue with the "Woke" state of today, and formed his view of what New Zealand wants based on that small segment of society that came to hear him that day.

"Maori words are too confusing, and my son can't write for shit, he's too busy being on his phone and being told he can be a girl!"

[Ab]

But they ARE confusing. If you're a non-Maori speaking Kiwi (that is - most people) or an immigrant or a tourist, having government services referred to by only their Maori names is fucking useless. Requiring the English names to always be present is good policy.

[Lightspeed]

It took me some time growing up to recognise that for many, perhaps most, life wasn't this confusing, incoherent mess of contradictory messages, values, behaviours.

That for some the world made sense. Indeed they expected it to make sense, all the time. Anything that didn't make sense was a problem with someone to blame.

I get privilege is nice, but I'm kinda not too upset being adapted to living in a word where I don't expect things to make sense. Where I've always got to be doing work piecing together what's going on.

Change is something to look forward to, not fear.

[Ab]

Parse this real actual press release issued in August this year by an NZ Government entity. Without looking them up, who are the organisations referenced? Are they credible? Do they have standing in this area? Should you care about the work they've done? Should you read the rest of the text?

What Drives Rents In New Zealand?

Monday, 7 August 2023, 12:18 pm
Press Release

Today Te Tai Ōhanga, Te Tūāpapa Kura Kāinga and Te Pūtea Matua are publishing a joint paper that provides an assessment of the key drivers of rents in New Zealand

[Lightspeed]

I get it Ab. In your head you know about all these organisations so you don't have to look up anything to know what they're about.

There's a good chunk of us who have to look them up every time. Maybe cause we're dumb. Maybe cause we're overwhelmed. For whatever reason we're not going around retaining the form and function of various government bodies in our heads.

If we're interested in something and we come across these organisations we'll be piping up "aw, what's the one again?"

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I get it Ab. In your head you know about all these organisations so you don't have to look up anything to know what they're about.

There's a good chunk of us who have to look them up every time. Maybe cause we're dumb. Maybe cause we're overwhelmed. For whatever reason we're not going around retaining the form and function of various government bodies in our heads.

If we're interested in something and we come across these organisations we'll be piping up "aw, what's the one again?"

These things go to audiences in other countries too.

[Ab]