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Old 29th July 2020, 19:24     #1001
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
As opposed to say, FPP, in which minor parties never have an opportunity to influence policy ever.
False dichotomy; you’re the only one talking about FPP. There are other systems and MMP formulae.
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Old 29th July 2020, 23:19     #1002
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Could drop the threshold to 0.83%. I reckon this would mean more parties and so the more options big parties have to make up coalitions the less smaller parties can over-leverage.
Two reasons that's a shit idea: New Conservatives & NZPP.
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Old 30th July 2020, 00:05     #1003
Lightspeed
 
So the incoherent fringe somehow manage to correctly fill out the paperwork and win a seat or two, what are we concerned will happen?
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Old 30th July 2020, 00:24     #1004
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
False dichotomy; you’re the only one talking about FPP. There are other systems and MMP formulae.
Correct!

I guess shit has to get, like, REALLY fucking crazy before people stop wanting business as usual.

Last edited by Nothing : 30th July 2020 at 00:26.
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Old 31st July 2020, 16:00     #1005
Jodi
 
Thing that irks me, is that to win an electorate seat, you just need the most votes - not the _majority_ of votes.

And cos the left always loves to splinter, the right gets seats that way even though they have less that 50% of the vote for the electorate
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Old 31st July 2020, 20:36     #1006
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodi
Thing that irks me, is that to win an electorate seat, you just need the most votes - not the _majority_ of votes.

And cos the left always loves to splinter, the right gets seats that way even though they have less that 50% of the vote for the electorate
That's why the right have no friends to work with.
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Old 31st July 2020, 21:35     #1007
Lightspeed
 
It seems ranked voting in the electorates would solve a lot.
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Old 31st July 2020, 23:18     #1008
blynk
 
It would allow minor parties to potentially win electorate seats.
Using something like STV. Would allow more people to vote minor and havra back up of a main party.
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Old 1st August 2020, 17:47     #1009
Delphinus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
It would allow minor parties to potentially win electorate seats.
Using something like STV. Would allow more people to vote minor and havra back up of a main party.
STV voting is my favourite. Please bring this in.
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Old 5th August 2020, 11:08     #1010
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Official unemployment falls to 4% in June quarter
Didn't National change the way we measure unemployment to make themselves look good? Well now it's helping Labour look good, right when there's an election next month.
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Old 5th August 2020, 11:32     #1011
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
So the incoherent fringe somehow manage to correctly fill out the paperwork and win a seat or two, what are we concerned will happen?
Winston Peters, but on meth.
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Old 5th August 2020, 11:37     #1012
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
It seems ranked voting in the electorates would solve a lot.
STV fan here
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Old 5th August 2020, 14:43     #1013
StN
I have detailed files
 
There is something to be said for voting and ending up with the biggest ranker getting in!
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Old 8th August 2020, 10:06     #1014
fixed_truth
 
Yet another rogue poll

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8...0-202008070802

ACT up to 6.5 too
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Old 8th August 2020, 16:10     #1015
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
STV fan here
Seems most straightforward and effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Winston Peters, but on meth.
Winston Peters is unfortunately one of the most coherent politicians in New Zealand right now. Come on, is there a politician in both Australia and New Zealand more effective at slapping down other politicians? Right? Maybe it's just my information bubble, or I'm biased due to the incident where Peters threw I think the Aussie foreign minister under the bus in front of journalists. That was a "I hate to love you Peters" moment.

I think that's only partly why he's been able to negotiate the position he has.

Another significant factor is he has benefited from an absence of smaller parties and the dominance of two parties. Which I expect the lowering of the threshold to change.
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Old 9th August 2020, 16:45     #1016
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
NZ First MP Shane Jones to stand in Northland at election
Will be interesting to see if his big spend up greased up the electorate enough.
Computer says no

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...northland-seat
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Old 9th August 2020, 18:06     #1017
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Shane Jones is the laziest man alive, and winning electorates is hard work. No surprises.
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Old 11th August 2020, 10:36     #1018
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-k...ana-o-te-taiao

Quote:
The government's latest plan to save New Zealand's wildlife and plants promises to have te ao Māori at its heart, including holding mātauranga Māori in the same regard as Western science.
tempted to post this in the "political correctness gone mad" thread
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Old 15th August 2020, 06:50     #1019
fixed_truth
 
Out of all the polls in recent years (outside of the elections of course) this is the most significant imo

Poll puts Labour as the preferred party for business owners for first time
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Old 15th August 2020, 10:16     #1020
spigalau
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Out of all the polls in recent years (outside of the elections of course) this is the most significant imo

Poll puts Labour as the preferred party for business owners for first time
So 62% (aka the majority) don't think that Labour is good for business...
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Old 15th August 2020, 10:30     #1021
Cyberbob
 
That's a ridiculous way of spinning the finding, and the makings of a bad faith argument.
More businesses prefer Labour over any other party. That's the finding.

If 45% of people prefer chocolate, 20% of people prefer strawberry, 20% of people prefer hokey pokey and 15% of people prefer vanilla, The Spigalau Daily front page reads "MOST PEOPLE HATE CHOCOLATE"
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Last edited by Cyberbob : 15th August 2020 at 10:31.
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Old 15th August 2020, 13:18     #1022
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spigalau
So 62% (aka the majority) don't think that Labour is good for business...
And 65% don't think National.

The headline is just the "Preferred party".
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Old 23rd August 2020, 23:28     #1023
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
brutal summary of all the Government/MoH's fuckups revealed so far:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12358858
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Old 24th August 2020, 00:28     #1024
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
brutal summary of all the Government/MoH's fuckups revealed so far:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12358858
To the extent that responsibility for these issues lies with the ministry, changing the government isn't likely to provide a quick fix.
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Old 24th August 2020, 13:43     #1025
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
To the extent that responsibility for these issues lies with the ministry, changing the government isn't likely to provide a quick fix.
False dichotomy; you’re the only one talking about changing the government.

The government that we have right now needs to acknowledge its shortcomings and just do better.
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Old 24th August 2020, 13:54     #1026
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
False dichotomy; you’re the only one talking about changing the government.

The government that we have right now needs to acknowledge its shortcomings and just do better.
I'm not suggesting changing the government, just pointing out that if you think that these stuff ups are a reason to change the government, that there are some reasons that changing the government might not actually result in these issues going away. Or, to say it a little differently, some of these issues would have occurred regardless of who was in power.

100% agree that the government needs to acknowledge its shortcomings and just do better.
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Old 24th August 2020, 14:14     #1027
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
The government that we have right now needs to acknowledge its shortcomings and just do better.
I don't really like that framing either.

Shortcomings? Only in the sense none of us are perfect and all of us can improve.

Yes, MPs and reporters have a place raising those areas of improvement to public awareness. But they also have an agenda, seek to shock and titillate in the competition for our attention. Often leaving enough unsaid to leave us wondering, maybe this is as extreme as the evocative language suggests.

But doesn't mean we have to play along. While we do have psychological hooks we're prone to, we also have the capacity to grow beyond them.

The problem the government must resist now is responding too quickly, overacting as a result of underhanded politicisation of the pandemic. As we can see attempting to solve some problems only cause others, and in circumstances where we're holding off dramatic consequences with careful behaviour, we can't lose our focus. It's better to stick with the problems we know, while we develop a more comprehensive response.

We are in a kind of car crash scenario. We're in that slow-mo moment where the danger is obvious and with a clear window to avoid it, pretty sure the family in the back is going to survive this, how much thought are we going to give to saving the car so we make the trip home? To work tomorrow? Do we have time to think about the paint job? You know people have gotten themselves killed trying to save superficial shit.

We've got decisions to make in that regard too.
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Old 9th September 2020, 15:29     #1028
Lightspeed
 
Labour rules out Green Party's wealth tax in any Government it forms

Trying to pull votes away from National supporters wanting to keep the Greens at bay?

Goes to show how far right our politics have been pulled.
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Old 9th September 2020, 18:03     #1029
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Lol, Australia's top tax rate is 45% over $180,000 and this place is RUN by big business. This move by NZ Labour is just the usual dithering centrism.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:39     #1030
Cyberbob
 
Jacinda Ardern says she won't stay on as Labour leader if she loses election

How can this be seen as a good statement to make days before the election?
She'll stick around, but only if she can be Prime Minister. So she doesn't have confidence in the ability of her party to co-exist with a National led government, or her ability to lead an opposition party? Which one is it?
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Old 16th October 2020, 15:46     #1031
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
Jacinda Ardern says she won't stay on as Labour leader if she loses election

How can this be seen as a good statement to make days before the election?
She'll stick around, but only if she can be Prime Minister. So she doesn't have confidence in the ability of her party to co-exist with a National led government, or her ability to lead an opposition party? Which one is it?
Or maybe it's that she realises the relationship between the Party & the Leader.
If the country votes and National can govern, then she knows it effectively a vote against her.

It may be a bit different if she wasn't already PM. Collins could easily last till next election to try again.
But Ardern is the incumbent.

I'm sure you will find extremely few examples of an incumbent PM, who loses and sticks around to the next election.
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Old 14th November 2020, 11:56     #1032
Lightspeed
 
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Old 19th November 2020, 14:02     #1033
Lightspeed
 
The cruel violence of ‘kindness’ and ‘unity’

Quote:
The truth is that in an exceptionally unequal society like ours, it’s impossible to govern for all “New Zealanders”. You cannot serve the interests of wealthy conservatives, and then claim to be remotely interested in addressing poverty, homelessness, mass incarceration and climate change. You have to choose one – there is no legitimate and honest middle ground or ‘centre’.

Contrary to popular belief, the ‘centre’ isn’t a place for reasonable, measured minds who can see valid points on both sides and find a just and fair compromise. The ‘centre’ doesn’t actually exist. It’s an imagined safe space for people who are deeply invested in inequality in a settler-colonial, capitalist state but still want to be perceived as kind and decent people.
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Old 25th November 2020, 12:41     #1034
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/24...-more-by-2030/
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Old 25th November 2020, 16:02     #1035
Lightspeed
 
Laugh

Danyl Mclauchlan is a name to remember. Excellent writing.
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Old 26th November 2020, 17:16     #1036
Nothing
 
Sad

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/investiga...wave-of-trauma
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Old 26th November 2020, 17:45     #1037
crocos
 
ffs. Bureaucracy and policy mindlessly and without any compassion fucking up more lives - in other words OT haven't changed.
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Old 26th November 2020, 17:46     #1038
Lightspeed
 
This is the doing of Nick Smith and Anne Tolley.

We only offer an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and it's a rickety one at that.
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Old 27th November 2020, 04:03     #1039
crocos
 
What, you're saying that the OT workers had no choice? BULLSHIT.

"I was only following orders" is not an excuse.
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Old 27th November 2020, 09:04     #1040
StN
I have detailed files
 
Explain it like I'm 5...

Please excuse my white privilege, but under what circumstances does a Government agency have recourse to uplift newborns? Are these from really young mothers? If so, I don't understand why the family unit isn't the best place to ensure safety of the child. Or is it related to a reported unsafe environment?

I really don't understand. The numbers quoted do seem out of proportion for the population breakdown, and I always understood that in Maori culture there was a tradition of newborns sometimes being looked after by Grandparents - but that the extended family unit was inclusive.

Enlighten me - the news reports do seem to be purposefully vague on the background.

/edit - and upon further reading, it seems I'm not the only one flabbergasted by this.

Last edited by StN : 27th November 2020 at 09:06.
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