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Old 31st January 2016, 14:06     #1
fixed_truth
 
Labour announce 3 years free tertiary education

Whoa shit
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11582567
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Old 31st January 2016, 14:16     #2
Lightspeed
 
Thumbs up

That's cool.
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Old 31st January 2016, 14:28     #3
ZoSo
 
Let's see if it helps these numbers..
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Old 31st January 2016, 15:08     #4
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
It seems like a nice idea and one I'm not an entirely opposed to. But they'd be better off targeting the skills that NZ is most urgently in need of. If someone wants to get a degree in philosophy, they can pay for it.
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Old 31st January 2016, 17:16     #5
fixed_truth
 
True, but how to we decide what degrees are useful and what aren't?
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Old 31st January 2016, 19:39     #6
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
It seems like a nice idea and one I'm not an entirely opposed to. But they'd be better off targeting the skills that NZ is most urgently in need of. If someone wants to get a degree in philosophy, they can pay for it.
More people need degrees in Philosophy TBH. Less Marketing cunts.
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Old 31st January 2016, 19:51     #7
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
True, but how to we decide what degrees are useful and what aren't?
It's pretty fucking easy. STEM disciplines are usually a pretty good bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyzoos
More people need degrees in Philosophy TBH. Less Marketing cunts.
Fewer marketing cunts, sure. The country could probably also do with fewer people with philosophy degrees, arts degrees, women's studies degrees etc.
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Old 31st January 2016, 20:57     #8
fixed_truth
 
I think it gets a bit murky here because a lot of degrees don’t necessarily have a specific ‘job’ at the end of them – but nonetheless lead to a job in a somewhat broad area. For example it’s not uncommon for Philosophy majors (or other less career specific subjects in Arts, commerce Science etc) to do a graduate diploma in Teaching and presto you make the list (along with a shit load of marketing roles lol).

Also I wonder whether generally becoming more educated is beneficial for an individual and has a positive flow on to society as a whole?
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Old 31st January 2016, 21:07     #9
[Malks] Pixie
 
Yeah STEM is in demand, but at the same point the most recent rounds of science funding for research highlighted a low number of social science applications which are also in now going to be in demand.

Art degree's can cover quite a wide range of material - and I've known quite a few people with Fine Art's backgrounds who have gone onto digital design in games/film/tv.

The thing is that often there's numerous ways to build a skill set which is going to be useful to employers - and saying one particular degree isn't "work ready" or "value for money" isn't the way to approach it.

Pixie
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Old 31st January 2016, 21:39     #10
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
As much as I like games/film/tv, they are hardly an immediate need. A govt could spend less money by not providing free funding for courses which are 'nice' but instead fund the most useful degrees.
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Old 31st January 2016, 21:55     #11
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
It seems like a nice idea and one I'm not an entirely opposed to. But they'd be better off targeting the skills that NZ is most urgently in need of. If someone wants to get a degree in philosophy, they can pay for it.
What a beautifully demonstrative display of ignorance!
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Old 31st January 2016, 22:27     #12
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Not really.
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Old 31st January 2016, 22:36     #13
Nothing
 
Well, of course you wouldn't agree. No surprises there. How could you, when you're so obviously so ignorant?
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Old 1st February 2016, 14:06     #14
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
Attributing education of any kind to a future career is ultimately pointless. People can work that out by themselves.

To cut a long story short, If we could generally agree that tertiary education makes for a better society then I'm more than happy to pay taxes for the rest of my life that enables free-loading BA students to get their fill. Ecstatic would be the word.
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Old 1st February 2016, 14:07     #15
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Rolling eyes

Thanks for taking this to ad hominem level.
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Old 1st February 2016, 15:00     #16
MadMax
Stuff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
It seems like a nice idea and one I'm not an entirely opposed to. But they'd be better off targeting the skills that NZ is most urgently in need of. If someone wants to get a degree in philosophy, they can pay for it.
I like this - for example targeting jobs that are on the in demand list currently allowing overseas worker easy entry but this list is very dynamic and short of googling, the effects of targeted employment unknown.
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Old 1st February 2016, 15:02     #17
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
If only you had studied English, then perhaps, you might know what ad hominem meant.
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Old 1st February 2016, 15:34     #18
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
If I'd studied English, I'd be a Barista.

So calling people ignorant doesn't constitute ad hominem? Okay, sweet. I'll remember that one.
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Old 1st February 2016, 16:56     #19
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
How many years of study did it take for you to become an expert on public policy and education?
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Old 1st February 2016, 18:19     #20
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
If NZ all of a sudden has 1.2 billion to spend on education I'd prefer it went to early childhood.
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Old 1st February 2016, 18:26     #21
MadMax
Stuff
 
todlers can't vote
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Old 1st February 2016, 19:04     #22
Delphinus
 
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:01     #23
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
How many years of study did it take for you to become an expert on public policy and education?
Since when did I need to study for many years to become an expert on public policy and education? Is that a prerequisite to have a political opinion?
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:17     #24
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphinus
That's a cute picture but lefties forget that it was their own Anointed One, The Helen, who bought votes with interest free loans in 2005. That's a great deal for students. An interest free loan, you only pay it back once you earn a certain amount and you only pay it down as you earn money.

I'll say it again: That's a great deal for students.

It's not the crippling debt that cartoonists make it out to be. The amusing thing about that cartoon though is that it's from 2006 so Helen had already solved the problem by then. Although it's an American cartoon and Helen's influence only went so far back then...
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:56     #25
Lightspeed
 
Perhaps the comic was more about the attitude of baby boomers who have forgotten the free ride they got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Since when did I need to study for many years to become an expert on public policy and education? Is that a prerequisite to have a political opinion?
You're certainly an expert of making an ass of yourself.

"Fuck you, your a stupid cunt, that's why you're opinion don't count!"

...

"Awwww, why ad homo nim me bro!"
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Old 1st February 2016, 22:18     #26
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Show where in this thread I called anyone a cunt. So far, you're the fourth person to attack me instead of the argument. Probably because you realise my facts are unassailable and it's got you in a lather.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Perhaps the comic was more about the attitude of baby boomers who have forgotten the free ride they got?
Perhaps the baby boomers aren't particularly relevant to this conversation?
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Old 1st February 2016, 23:57     #27
Lightspeed
 
o_O

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Show where in this thread I called anyone a cunt. So far, you're the fourth person to attack me instead of the argument. Probably because you realise my facts are unassailable and it's got you in a lather.
I appreciate that you experience each event as isolated, that one thing does not impact another. However I at least experience things as connected, and I experience you as a cunt who is more than happy to derail a discussion that doesn't suit you with vitriolic ad hominem.
Quote:
Perhaps the baby boomers aren't particularly relevant to this conversation?
Are we talking politics in a context of an ageing population? Then boomers are relevant.
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Old 1st February 2016, 23:57     #28
Lightspeed
 
..
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 1st February 2016 at 23:58.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 07:36     #29
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Labour's biggest shift to the left in decades seems to be resonating. By and large the reaction has been extraordinarily positive, for what is an incredibly contentious policy. Of course many on the political right have come out strongly against the whole concept, but on the whole there has been a surprising amount of praise for the radical new policy.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=11583002 - Edwards gives a good over-view of all the different reactions to the policy.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 08:24     #30
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
If I'd studied English, I'd be a Barista.

So calling people ignorant doesn't constitute ad hominem? Okay, sweet. I'll remember that one.
Or maybe you would be a literacy professor developing new methods to teach English to ESOL students. I did call you ignorant but that was after you accused me of a reaction against you and not your position. I did not attack you dude and was merely stating my opinion like all the other windbags. I do understand your position and I don't fault you for it. I just have different views.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 08:29     #31
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
If only you had studied English, then perhaps, you might know what ad hominem meant.
That's attacking me instead of the argument, no matter how you try to frame it.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 08:31     #32
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
I appreciate that you experience each event as isolated, that one thing does not impact another. However I at least experience things as connected, and I experience you as a cunt who is more than happy to derail a discussion that doesn't suit you with vitriolic ad hominem.
You're always the first person to attack me if I call people dumb cunts, but here you and your buddies are attacking me even when I'm behaving nicely. You don't understand the issue with that?

Quote:
Are we talking politics in a context of an ageing population?
No. We quite obviously are not.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 08:41     #33
pxpx
 
If I said that I think this is a mostly good idea, can I be called a cunt too? Because I think this is a mostly good idea.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 09:04     #34
Delphinus
 
I was absolutely posting the cartoon in the context that the baby boomers all got 100% free tertiary education.

One has to take the aging population into account, because it's the population we have now. They got free education, so shouldn't be complaining when a policy is suggested to give current generations the same thing. Especially taking into account the other benefits they have received (best part of house price increase etc).
I think it was around 1990 that students started paying fees for uni.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 10:52     #35
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
That's attacking me instead of the argument, no matter how you try to frame it.
My ad hominem "attack" occurred after you accused me of an ad hominem attack. That's not framing, it's History, another subject worth studying

I know it's hard to convey these things with the written word, but I was going for gently ironic rather than attack, so just cool your jets fly boy.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 10:53     #36
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
If I said that I think this is a mostly good idea, can I be called a cunt too? Because I think this is a mostly good idea.
Cunt. I just love that word.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 12:22     #37
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
You're always the first person to attack me if I call people dumb cunts, but here you and your buddies are attacking me even when I'm behaving nicely. You don't understand the issue with that?
lolz, that's great. You're like a kid on the playground who because in one particularly instance they're not acting like a bully, they expect to get to join in on the fun and games.

You don't seem to have any problem with your bullshit. Why is anyone else's bullshit a problem? Oh, right, cause it's YOU that's at the wrong end of it in this case.

Hahah, you're so pathetic CCS, all I can do is laugh.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 12:32     #38
spigalau
 
So to put it all in to context, vote for Labour in 2017, 2020 and 2023, then we will introduce '3 years free tertiary education' in 2024.

Anyone else get reminded of the previous tax cuts promise (aka chewing gum tax cut - refer - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10368511) that they eventually said 'yeah nah'...
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Old 2nd February 2016, 14:52     #39
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
If I said that I think this is a mostly good idea, can I be called a cunt too? Because I think this is a mostly good idea.
Nah, that's reserved for those that rave on about Auntie Helen & lefties and post links to whale oil :-P
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Old 2nd February 2016, 15:05     #40
BoyWonder
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyzoos
My ad hominem "attack" occurred after you accused me of an ad hominem attack. That's not framing, it's History, another subject worth studying

I know it's hard to convey these things with the written word, but I was going for gently ironic rather than attack, so just cool your jets fly boy.
I don't think CCS was even replying to you. It looked to me like he was responding to Nothing but your comment scooted in between.
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