New All Black Caps for End of Year Tour

[mr selfdestruct]

Predictions please.

My prediction is that there will only be three uncapped players and they will be:
Keiran Reid
Cory Jane
Hika Elliot

[Koldzy]

+ Gear surely?

[xor]

err

[buckies]

I get the feeling that Jane will be one of those players who was always awesome but never got selected. Hope I'm wrong though. His chances are as good as ever though with Mills out.

Gotta be a +Gear though, provided he doesn't play like balls in the final two crunch matches left before Wellington take it out

[mr selfdestruct]

Why should Gear be selected? Because he can catch the ball and dive over a try line? Do we need more one dimensional wingers that look like they play well only when their team is dominating the opposition?

Jane is almost automatic with McDonald out IMO. Henry said they would take 3 specialist first five eighths so surely Brett.

[buckies]

Gear is a powerful runner with the ball in hand, and he frequently breaks tackles. His wheels aren't worth questioning.

His handling is the only iffy question

[Rince]

Jane definitely - he plays the 15-man game like he's still at a 7s tourney.....

brilliant to watch, and hard to defend.... sitting next a couple of Naki lads at last week's quarter final, Taranaki attempts a huge bomb, but goes straight to Jane deep on Welly territory and teh lads groaned and said "fuck's sake, don't kick it to him, that's a try...." sure enough 3 minutes later... try Welly. All because Cory has the ability to make something from less than nothing.


Gear: I'm halfway between SD and buckies on this one.... I think he should be on tour and given a chance, but wouldn't be surprised (but would be disappointed) if he doesn't step up to international grade.

[Rince]

oh yeah - when I first saw this topic I thought WTF is cricket doing in here?

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by buckies

Gear is a powerful runner with the ball in hand, and he frequently breaks tackles. His wheels aren't worth questioning.

His handling is the only iffy question

Sorry buckies I usually agree with you but I'm putting my foot down. He is not a powerful runner, his shit is weak. His handling is absolutely atrocious and we have yet to witness any offload ability, he is a hungus and if he doesn't make the try line he often loses the ball at the break down.

Who gives a shit about his 'wheels'? He's no quicker than Masaga or D.Smith. I'm not saying either of those guys should be in either, I'm just illustrating that Gear is nothing unique. He has just been thrust into the limelight due to his team performing exceptionally. I'm sure the 3 Wise Men are aware of this and are not even considering him.

There is an outside chance that Messam will be selected I'm thinking too, but I'm pretty sure they won't cap more than 3-4 new players and the quota is already full as far as I'm concerned

[buckies]

We'll reserve our grading of Gear till after tonight's performance. I think Ellison has had an amazing season but I doubt he'll be getting any call up.

Welly's back to its line up I like best. It'll be murder for the Stags

Cory Jane, Ma'a Nonu, Tamati Ellison, Tane Tu'ipulotu, Hosea Gear, Piri Weepu (c), Alby Mathewson, Thomas Waldrom, Rodney So'oialo, Chris Masoe, Jeremy Thrush, Ross Filipo, John Schwalger, Dane Coles, Neemia Tialata. Reserves: Ged Robinson, Jacob Ellison, Tim Fairbrother, Api Naikatini, Serge Lilo, Daniel Kirkpatrick, Conrad Smith.

[mr selfdestruct]

Na we won't reserve judgement of Gear tonight because as you just mentioned, it's going to be murder for the Stags and Gear will probably score half a dozen meaningless tries. I've already judged Gear in the games that Wellington scraped a win out of or lost and he was absolutely apalling. This will most likely be highlighted in the final.

That is a vicious line up. Poor Southland, Jimmy is going to be dropping a LOT of F bombs in this game.

[buckies]

You've gotta come clean now and admit that last night proved my point.

Both Gear's tries were individual brilliance - hardly a wing latching onto the end of set move and dotting it down. In both instances he made something out of nothing.

On the flip side, he showed us his weak handling by muffing that try in the corner (although Jane's pass was far from flash) and he had that absolute mear with the that kick he spilled and then took into touch near halfway.

Overall though, due to his sheer destructive ability, he'd be my pick of the wingers this NPC. Let him have his AB's opportunity.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by buckies

On the flip side, he showed us his weak handling by muffing that try in the corner (although Jane's pass was far from flash) and he had that absolute mear with the that kick he spilled and then took into touch near halfway.

What about his line break in the first half where he was running down the side line and had Waldrom on his inside and he didn't pass to him and booted the ball out on the full? That was pretty classy eh? His first try was nothing flash, his second one was pretty impressive, probably his most impressive in the season. I still don't think he's done enough to be an All Black though sorry.

I wonder which Super 14 franchise Jason Shoemark will play centre for next year, hmmm I'm thinking maybe Highlanders.

[buckies]

the kick was the right decision, but the execution was very, very poor.

All he had to do was kick it centerish - even towards the left hand post would suffice, as he had the wheels to win the foot race.

I think Waldrom wouldn't have made it all the way, further support would have been needed.

I still am not happy with Wellington's forwards. They were slow to the breakdown and very lucky to get away with it, and the number of times the predicatable #8 pass to Alby off the back of the scrum failed was embarrassing. Our scrum also sucked bad once Tialata came off.

I want Lilo to start for the final, but how? Perhaps Lilo #7, Rodney #6 and Waldrom #8. Sorry Masoe, you had an alright game but if we don't contest strongly at the breakdown this weekend then we're fucked!

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by buckies

I think Waldrom wouldn't have made it all the way, further support would have been needed.

Yep and Waldrom would have most likely made 10-15 meters before the break down to feed it back to his team to try again. Gear killed it as he often does.

Hika is not in the wider All Black training squad, disappointing. I guess there won't be any new caps at Hooker. Pretty stoked that Lats made it though, might have some BOP representation for the first time in decades! :P

[mr selfdestruct]

Didn't think they'd name 7, that's heeeeaps:

Hosea Gear
Cory Jane
Kieran Read
Scott Waldrom
Jamie Mackintosh
Liam Messam
Ben Franks

Can I get a "HELLLLL YEEEAH!!!" for Messam and Jane?!!!

[mr selfdestruct]

Sooooooooo buckies, wanna tell me how awesome Hosea Gear was on Saturday night? Shits weeeeak. Hope he enjoyed his only ever start as an All Black.

[Luse]

I thought he was awesome. Outshone everyone else on the team.

I kid, I kid

Edit: I think the Donald-Carter experiment can be called a failure now. I'm not a fan of Donald at all. Having him representing us at 10 is embarrassing, every time he kicks I die a little inside.

[badassmofo]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

Sooooooooo buckies, wanna tell me how awesome Hosea Gear was on Saturday night? Shits weeeeak. Hope he enjoyed his only ever start as an All Black.

I think he was ok, could of been worse. The Aussies certainly put a lot of pressure on him.
Given some of the performances we've seen from Lauaki in the black jersey, I'd say Hosea is safe for now Early Days.

[caffiend]

I agree - give Gear some time, and see how he goes against the Home Nations. He probably just had first game jitters. Remember that Toeava was pretty bad in his first few ABs starts but had a blinder this year in domestic rugby and a stunner on Saturday night.

[mr selfdestruct]

I thought he got shown up pretty badly by Drew Mitchell who is pretty average himself. There is no WAY Drew should have scored that try in the corner, Gear should have been covering him EASILY. If he can't mark Drew he doesn't have a hope in hell of marking Tequiri.

Toeava debut'ed with no Super 14 games under his belt and only one Air New Zealand Cup game, I don't think you can really compare his shaky start in the All Blacks to Gear's who has got a lot more experience under his belt before his debut.

[caffiend]

Fair enough. But I don't reckon any Super 14 or ANZC could prepare you fully for your first Test... against Australia... in Hong Kong in the rain and humidity... within an experimental AB side. If he's still playing poorly after 3 or 4 games then I'll happily retract

[-Dr.J-]

Gear SUCKED. Mainly in his reads on D. Only had one decent run, and it wasn't very far.

[mr selfdestruct]

Personally I don't think he can be faulted for how many 'runs' he had. You only get the opportunities your team mates create for you 90% of the time. His piss poor defense was inexcusable though, dunno why everyone is making excuses for him. Rudi Wulf was a hell of a lot better in his first test. Gear shouldn't really get another shot in this tour, Tuitivake deserves any spot vacated by Joe or Siti, he's done the hard yards to get there.

[buckies]

Didn't watch the game. Am currently in Thailand and couldn't find an expat bar in the local hood which had it on.

I'll give Gear till the end of the Grand Slam before I judge him on his international level ability. It sounds as though he didn't play well in the weekend.

I have always been a Tuitivake fan. He runs hard and fast with the ball in hand and doesn't slow down for the impending tackle.

[mr selfdestruct]

I'm loving the team named for Sunday morning. Donald at 10 again with Kahui at 13 in position for the first time in the All Blacks with Nonu outside him, that could be devastating. Tuitivake on the wing and what a trio in Thomson, Reid and Messam, all very mobile loosies. Lots of super 14 credentials in this team but dick all Test experience. They will start out very slow but wallop Scotland in the 2nd half. 1-7 HT Winning Margin to All Blacks. Probably 15-21 Winning Margin at Full Time.

1st Try Toeava or Messam.

[mr selfdestruct]

Holy Shit.

All All Blacks paying $2.25 minimum just to score a try. Unbelievable against a side like Scotland. Pick a couple try scorers and put $20 each on them people!

[Phrack]

Can't wait for this game, too many players to watch at once.. Might have to record it and watch again.

[mr selfdestruct]

Average winning margin spread over all encounters vs Scotland = 18 points.

$10 on NZ Winning Margin Spread 15-21 paying $6.50
$5 on Nonu 1st Try paying $10

Might put $20 on Toeava...

Yeah Phrack should be an awesome game

[-Dr.J-]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

I'm loving the team named for Sunday morning. Donald at 10 again with Kahui at 13 in position for the first time in the All Blacks with Nonu outside him, that could be devastating. Tuitivake on the wing and what a trio in Thomson, Reid and Messam, all very mobile loosies. Lots of super 14 credentials in this team but dick all Test experience. They will start out very slow but wallop Scotland in the 2nd half. 1-7 HT Winning Margin to All Blacks. Probably 15-21 Winning Margin at Full Time.

1st Try Toeava or Messam.

He's played 13 a couple times already...

[mr selfdestruct]

Shit you're right, he did against England eh? My bad :/ Seems so long ago.

[pig]

Scotland are just gonna go out there to frustrate & slow down our ball & with that knobgobbler ref who the hell knows how many penalties we will actually get.

[mr selfdestruct]

Our guys will concede HEAPS of penalties.

[ilk]

I just hope I don't freeze my nuts off watching it at Murrayfield.

:P

[buckies]

Thompson's good at conceeding penalties. Fuck the media build up, our back line is still fatal.

If the forwards get good ball for the backs and defend well at the breakdown, we should smoke the Scots comfortably.

[caffiend]

Flattering scoreline I reckon. The Scots had so many classy breaks, but just fucked it up with no follow-up support. Did you see how they spent 22 minutes in our 22, and we only spent 8 in theirs?

We were throwing way too many 'close your eyes and hope' passes in the first half, but given the experimental side and new caps I thought it was reasonably solid. I hope Toeava's not out of the rest of the tour.

I was pleasantly surprised by Barnes as ref; although possibly a bit harsh on Boric. Penalised, yes. Binned, no.

[Luse]

I watched the first few minutes, saw nothing but Barnes' whistlestop tour of murrayfield, then a yellow card, and turned it off. :/

[ilk]

Fuck barnes. I didn't have reflink and didn't check the programme to see who was reffing but the whole game I was saying "This ref is fucking awful, I bet he's English". Two thirds of the game was snoozeworthy, especially after half time when we no longer had French people yelling behind us to be entertainment when the game slowed down.

[mr selfdestruct]

Barnes was only calling it how he was told to before the game, I think he did a good job. I missed out on my winning margin spread by a fraction with Boric scoring that final try bugger.

[-Dr.J-]

I think Messam had a great game and some of these newer non debuting faces like Boric were better for the run. It's pretty clear to me we need to keep Kahui as our starting centre. I like Conrad Smith and feel sorry for him that someone of the immense talent of Kahui is gonna keep him out of the side.

Tuitivake was good when he got some ball, which wasn't much but his D was superior to the lacklustre Gear performance. Good to see Joe back out there as well. Keiran Read was okay, expected to see more of him as well as Cory Jane who had a crap game considering he was gifted more game time than he anticipated. I still have faith in Jane to be a good AB's option in the coming seasons. Jury's still out on Read and on Flynn's return, I don't mind Thompson but I think Richie needs to be in there somewhere to try get some turn over ball out of those breakdowns yesterday.

Underlining the Messam performance, his second half was exceptional. Sidenote it was entertaining seeing Dannyboy playing halfback and is it just me or does anyone else reckon Ellis is the most overrated player in the team? Thank god they finally worked out we needed Piri back in the mix.