Tri-Nations - NZ vs AU - Page 4

Haydos · 3rd August 2008, 10:35

Nonu still made several big fuck ups.

Many times he had players unmarked on the outside of him and instead of distributing the ball like a good #12 should do, he stepped back into the traffic.

He slipped off a couple of tackles, including not being there to cover when Conrad Smith missed his.

He lost the ball several times via turn over, due to running into the rucks without much support near him and being easily turned.

It's not like the guy had a genius game, in fact if anything, I felt they were more stable when he was pushed to the wing.

The guy can run with the ball and break tackles, yes.. but he's a liability.

Haydos · 3rd August 2008, 10:39

Oh, and how could I forget, had Nonu not been awarded that dubious try, in which it was a 50/50 decision, his game would have been a little better than last week, not much.

Again, he had players unmarked on his side, instead of passing, he took on the tackler and very nearly cost the AB's a bonus point.

What I found most funny was the only time one of our wingers got put into a gap by a midfielder, was when Ali Williams was in the backline, received the ball instead of Nonu and fired a miss pass out to the winger.

Nonu should take notes.

ps... one of the other times a winger got the ball in space? Was when Nonu was out of position and on the wing, where passes where shuffled out to him and left him in a big hole, the hole that ultimately scored the try.

Had Nonu been on the inside, would the ball have touched the winger? No.

Helious · 3rd August 2008, 10:56

LOL @ the FOB lines man

stopping play twice and could barely explain himself to the ref - hahaha, made me furious, that ref had the mean flow and was pretty good calls.

fixed_truth · 3rd August 2008, 11:36

i'm happy that we gave them a more comprehensive hiding than they gave us last week - both on the field & the score board - gg henry

ZoSo · 3rd August 2008, 12:25

What a turnaround. Brilliant execution of the kicking game. Total domination there.. and wtf was with the lineout? This was the AB's playing right!? Amazing. Maybe Deans has taken the fucked up NZ lineouts over there, hehe.

orpheus · 3rd August 2008, 12:48

That was a really enjoyable game to watch...not becasue we won but becasue we did everything right. That said its only one game and now consistency is the key.

I thought the ref did well too.

Ab · 3rd August 2008, 16:23

Everything I think has been commented earlier by others, so I'll stick to things as-yet unmentioned.

Richard Kahui's tackle of Lote Tuqiri in the final quarter. Schoolkids should be shown replays of that tackle.

The return of the captains was a one-sided affair; Richie had a HUGE impact but Mortlock was surprisingly quiet.

Tony Woodcock, man of the match. Two tries in his entire All Black career before tonight, and then two in ten minutes. (Yeah ok he has already been mentioned, but hey, he deserves it)

Spoon1 · 3rd August 2008, 16:54

I'd have to watch it again but from my recollection most of the times Nonu took on the line was when he received it close to the defenders and to pass would have been risky.

I think the Nonu-bashers need to wake the fuck up and realise he's a different player this year.

Ali's cut-out pass was when there was miles of space between the two back-lines.

Spoon1 · 3rd August 2008, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Tony Woodcock, man of the match. Two tries in his entire All Black career before tonight, and then two in ten minutes. (Yeah ok he has already been mentioned, but hey, he deserves it)

LOL, really? I texted my parents saying that he'd doubled his try tally but had no idea I was accurate

Related note: Line-outs were fantastic. I think being able to pull down mauls means we'll see more contestion close to try-lines from defending teams. And that's

ZoSo · 3rd August 2008, 17:02

Pro Kapa O Pango btw

That was a perfect choice and man it showed.

Ard Righ · 3rd August 2008, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Richard Kahui's tackle of Lote Tuqiri in the final quarter. Schoolkids should be shown replays of that tackle.

I made a comment at the time that it was exactly what we had in Cullen, someone who could make the running chop-down tackles around the ankles so well that our cover defence was solid.

Props to Kahui for that tackle, he showed some heels getting across in cover defence

I agree with Spoon, Nonu seems to be the person people love to hate on. He is flavour of the month because he made the All Blacks. His position in the team is solid at the moment.

I doubt there would be any second-fives doing better considering Nonu gets the ball and two defenders at the same time.

Much improved line-out, that was the biggest difference over all previous test matches.

The positional kicking was much expected, since we got out-Crusader'd in Sydney. It was great to see DC and Cowan kicking nicely.

blur^ · 3rd August 2008, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoSo

Pro Kapa O Pango btw

That was a perfect choice and man it showed.

maybe we should do it before we play the french in world cups

surreal · 3rd August 2008, 23:53

In my opinion the forward effort was what created the victory. We had much greater numbers in the rucks this week, a lot more players blowing over and very few free kicks awarded against us there.

Cowan didnt make many mistakes thats true, but the forward dominance made it possible.

I'm glad Weepu looked sharp when he came on.

Williams worked very hard.

Nonu didnt get much space .

was good to watch

Ab · 4th August 2008, 00:23

It's amazing the difference that one really good player can make. Richie McCaw turns the ABs into an entirely different team.

Maulmonk · 4th August 2008, 00:25

Props to Kahui's tackle and not taking anything away from it, but i thought Tuquri was a greedy bastard for not passing when there was like 3 wallabies free and couldve gotten the try.

buckies · 4th August 2008, 11:50

Smarter tactical game plan + Richie McCaw = comprehensive victory.

I can't see us losing the tri nations so long as these two variables continue to be adherred to in a similar fashion that we witnessed on Saturday.

McCaw got several breakdown turnovers, and also saved a number of turnovers from occuring for our tacklers. He's worth a good 10-15 points.

Nonu's try shouldn't have been allowed. I feel sorry for the Aussies, especially if that bonus point comes back to haunt them. Nonu did make a meal of it though, he only cantered the first 50 metres before he decided to back himself and pin the ears back. He also should have cut in closer to the line, as there is no way his momentum wouldn't have carried him over should he have done so.
I also believe Nonu drew in the defenders well throughout the game but then didn't offload enough when he did, as he did create heaps of space for his outside backs due to the Aussies doubling up on him. There are several instances in the second half where good attacking opportunities were wasted by his poor decision making. Nevertheless, he is a force with the ball in hand and just needs to be educated a bit better.

The Aussie try was Smith's fault. Man to man marking and he got owned by Mortlock. As per last week, Smith's defense is questionable, and I don't think he's our man long term.

Kahui is too tech. One knock-on blemished an otherwise solid performance. Mills and Sivy also had solid performances.

Cowan was great. Snappy delivery and some beautiful kicks off the back of the rucks. I hope Ellis stays injured for the rest of the season, as he sucks, and will only bring us pain and misery should he return to the starting line up.

We still don't have a #6. Kaino is a journeyman who proved once again that he isn't up to this international standard. Didn't see him all game aside from when he missed tackles. That aside, it was a good 15 fielded.

Haydos · 4th August 2008, 12:24

We've got a great #6 sitting at home in Canterbury.

Keiran Read.

pig · 4th August 2008, 12:35

Great game, much better gameplan than last week & obviously fat better execution. Best lineout performance from an AB side I have seen in years but it was the tactical kicking & the field position we had that won us the game.
McCaw was awesome, can't see Braid getting another game even if Richie does get injured. Also wtf at Sivavatu coming across in cover then switching off & letting Ashley-Cooper run around to score under the posts ?
Tuqiri was quiet as was Mortlock, looked like the Aussies may have missed Elsom but he may have only made a difference in the lineout i reckon.
Thought the ref was bloody good to but yeah that touch judge was hopeless.

mr selfdestruct · 4th August 2008, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Nonu still made several big fuck ups.

Many times he had players unmarked on the outside of him and instead of distributing the ball like a good #12 should do, he stepped back into the traffic.

He slipped off a couple of tackles, including not being there to cover when Conrad Smith missed his.

He lost the ball several times via turn over, due to running into the rucks without much support near him and being easily turned.

It's not like the guy had a genius game, in fact if anything, I felt they were more stable when he was pushed to the wing.

The guy can run with the ball and break tackles, yes.. but he's a liability.

You're kidding me right? You sure you were watching the same game?

His stats show:
10 Broken Tackles, 1 Try Assist, 2 Tries, 7 Tackles, NO lost turnovers. He was the #1 performer on FantasyRugby.com.

If he's so hopeless who would you suggest takes his place?

mr selfdestruct · 4th August 2008, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckies

Cowan was great. Snappy delivery and some beautiful kicks off the back of the rucks. I hope Ellis stays injured for the rest of the season, as he sucks, and will only bring us pain and misery should he return to the starting line up.

Damn straight brother!

Russian · 4th August 2008, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

You're kidding me right? You sure you were watching the same game?

His stats show:
10 Broken Tackles, 1 Try Assist, 2 Tries, 7 Tackles, NO lost turnovers. He was the #1 performer on FantasyRugby.com.

If he's so hopeless who would you suggest takes his place?

haha, owned!

Cowan was better than Ellis... doesn't say much though. I'd like to see Weepu get a proper start at halfback.

Know me. · 4th August 2008, 16:09

Great game the AB's played a much harder game this week. Cowan and Kahui are really commited players and I'd have em in my team any day of the week. I'm not a Nonu fan because I hate his style of play. A good defensive effort can really nutralise it which will cost us in games that count.

Haydos · 4th August 2008, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

You're kidding me right? You sure you were watching the same game?

His stats show:
10 Broken Tackles, 1 Try Assist, 2 Tries, 7 Tackles, NO lost turnovers. He was the #1 performer on FantasyRugby.com.

If he's so hopeless who would you suggest takes his place?

Does that site count if you take the ball into the ruck and have it turned over from anything other than dropped ball/knock on.

Rugby is a team game, how many passes did he throw? How many times did the wingers touch the ball? Playing an individual game will get you high in FANTASY Rugby, but the game I watched saw Nonu time and time again forget he had players outside him.

JiggaRoll · 4th August 2008, 18:23

Have to pretty much agree with Haydos, there were quite a few times that Nonu could have spread the ball wider as he was causing the aussies to commit more players to try and stop him leaving space out wide. Instead he tried to break the line or took the ball to ground which isn't bad in its self but when do that constantly and a good part of your job on the field is distribution to wings then you start having problems.

In saying that though I still think he has made a huge step up from the player he was in past years that gave away dumb penalties, tried to pass miracle balls and just plain turned off during a game. Can't think of any really dumb things he has done as an AB this year. He also breaks the line and draws 2+ defenders better than almost all our other 2nd fives. Just really has to improve on his decision making and distribution which you would think/hope the coaches would be trying to work on.

ps

Please let Ellis stay injured for another 3 or 4 weeks. Least cowan can get the ball out of the ruck without having to look both ways, then wait a bit then look again to make sure their defence is set then take a couple of steps and wait for opposition to get in our backline then pass.

Phrack · 4th August 2008, 19:27

I noticed a lot of the time when people I was watching the game with hated on Nonu for not passing, Mortlock was just lurking waiting for the pass to be thrown. The midfield were rushing up to make Nonu run. What need to happen was a double around from Carter which would create some depth or a cut out ball straight to the centre. He does sometimes take the wrong option, but he hasn't played a lot of international rugby lately.

It's always hard to see the good in someone when all you want is for them to make a mistake to say I told you so.

Loved Cowans dive pass, and the emphasis that was put on it in highlight reels.

blynk · 4th August 2008, 19:36

I wouldn't be too concerned about Cowan/Ellis at the moment. It would have to be fairly certain that Cowan will start the next 3 games.
However Ellis will probably be on the bench

surreal · 4th August 2008, 22:47

Quote:

letting Ashley-Cooper run around to score under the posts ?

OMFG Exactly! I was tearing my hear out when I saw that, the same thing happened last week! I dont know if it was purely siviatu at fault but no one made a decent effort to cut off the run-around, in fact nonu made the only attempt. Thats ridiculous.

Chrono · 5th August 2008, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal

OMFG Exactly! I was tearing my hear out when I saw that, the same thing happened last week! I dont know if it was purely siviatu at fault but no one made a decent effort to cut off the run-around, in fact nonu made the only attempt. Thats ridiculous.

I was right in front of that in the Terraces, we were fucking pissed! WTF was with that.

Oh and I think Nonu played great, it's best if he doesn't pass the ball really.. he doesn't really have the best of passes. And no, there really isn't anyone to replace him with so stfu about it being a team sport.

You need line-breakers in rugby, he is one, a pretty damn good one at that.

Haydos · 5th August 2008, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrono

I was right in front of that in the Terraces, we were fucking pissed! WTF was with that.

Oh and I think Nonu played great, it's best if he doesn't pass the ball really.. he doesn't really have the best of passes. And no, there really isn't anyone to replace him with so stfu about it being a team sport.

You need line-breakers in rugby, he is one, a pretty damn good one at that.

Then put the fucker on the wing and bring someone who can pass the ball into the centres. No wonder the AB's have gone from scoring 30-40 points almost every match to struggling to get 15 in some.

mr selfdestruct · 5th August 2008, 09:14

LOL just can't get it right can he? Nonu was repeatedly criticised in the England matches for passing too much! Now he holds onto the ball a bit more and he's not passing enough. As the NZ public we're obviously just far too fucking critical eh?

Phrack: Cowan's dive pass owns, Ellis never does that shit. If Carter received a pass like that when we played the Springboks Carter would have had enough time for that drop goal at the death but nooooooo Ellis through him a big wonky hospital pass!! errrkkk!

Haydos · 5th August 2008, 10:01

In the space of a year, we’ve gone from a team that seemed unbeatable (until the World Cup hoodoo jinxed us) to a team that is beatable, even at home.

In the same space of time, guys like Sivivatu, Muliaina, Smith and the other back liners have seen their ball completely dry up, very few times are they put into the gap and they almost have to come in out of position to even touch the ball, all co-insiding with removing a very good distributer of the football (McCallister) and replacing him with a guy who when he does pass, he throws hospital passes and when he doesn’t pass, he’s a good chance at breaking a few tackles before being rolled on the ground and having the ball turned over.

We’ve got a far better forward pack than we had, especially with the way Thorn and Williams are operating. Our backline still has the same stars in it, yet they seem dulled. Why? Nonu.

No fucking doubt about it, Nonu will cost us matches, as he did the week before in Australia and as he’ll do in South Africa.

If you’re going to play him, stick him on the wing where his distribution skills aren’t as important. He isn’t a decision maker, he most definitely isn’t a play maker and the best thing that can be said for him is that he’ll beat the first tackle.

Beyond that, his tackling is shoddy, he doesn’t have a kicking game and he doesn’t know how to distribute to his backline.

mr selfdestruct · 5th August 2008, 10:05

I agree with you that he's not much of a decision maker but I actually think he's a very good distributor, he has a very sound pass, left and right. You're right that he's no play maker but that's not why he's there. They expect Carter to be the playmaker and backed up by whose at Centre. I think Nonu will come right. There's no use comparing him to McAlistair and Mauger we they're long gone, I asked you who you'd prefer playing at 12 from the players we've got....... can't think of anyone can you? Because if we picked anyone else they'd be starting from scratch, at least they have an opportunity to mould Nonu who just needs some areas ironed out a bit.

Haydos · 5th August 2008, 10:21

Personally, I'd put Donald in at second five.

You can alternate Carter and Donald as the situation requires, giving Carter a bit more width and a bit more depth in the backline to set up more plays.

Donald has a running game, while not as good as Nonu, is still good enough to draw defenders. His passing is great on either side, you won't convince me that Nonu can pass well, how many times has he put his players into hospital pass situations?

You've also got a tactical and deep kicking game in Donald, as well as defense that can be depended upon.

Mix him up with Kahui in the centres and you've got a solid, proven combination in both attack and defense and ultimately you give the backline two proven playmakers at Super 14 who can put their players into holes.

But, outside of that? Conrad Smith is a better option than Nonu, hell, Muliaina when McDonald is fit is a better option than Nonu.

Ard Righ · 5th August 2008, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

But, outside of that? Conrad Smith is a better option than Nonu, hell, Muliaina when McDonald is fit is a better option than Nonu.

No, no, no, and again NO!

Every time the All Blacks fuck around with putting fullbacks into Centre we get owned hard. Fullbacks and wingers are NOT centres. Cut that shit out right there!

If Nonu becomes a liability to the team, he will be dropped in an instant.

Stephen Brett might be a half-decent 2nd-five, don't know if he's played that position. Stephen Donald has played a bit there, and is an option if they think they need better kicking options.

I don't think Nonu will get replaced soon, and let's remember Tana wasn't the best kicker of the ball until late in his career also.

buckies · 5th August 2008, 11:17

Nonu is the win. His pass is very good when he does pass, and in the midfield he draws in multiple defenders which in turn frees up space on the outside for the centre, fullback and wing.

He did a beautiful line break and well timed pass against the poms. He made a few bad calls in the weekend but for the chances he creates he cannot be compromised. In the modern era of defensive rugby, line breakers of his quality cannot be over emphasized enough.

Donald ain't in the same league as a number 12. If anything, I'd like to see Nonu + Kahui as our established combo, but I don't think that will be established till next year, as the coaches will want to play it safe and maintain the Welly midfield combo for the rest of the Tri Nations.

You should save your judgement till the end of the Tri Nations, but i suspect that the verdict will be a positive one if you do. No doubt the coaching staff will encourage further distribution from him in the games to come. However, he's solid enough to not get turned when taking the ball in, and always makes ground when he does, which keeps me happy.

herp · 1st September 2008, 15:12

I've noticed all those people who were backing Deans before have all gone quiet. He just coached Aussie to their worst ever loss.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

ZoSo · 1st September 2008, 15:33

Maybe those of us a little less hysterical, still realize it's the NZ vs AU game next, that counts? You know, to win the overall cup.

herp · 1st September 2008, 15:36

Oh yeah, I know that, but still - it was Australia's worst ever loss at the hands of someone who many wanted to become the All Blacks coach. Win or lose the tri nations, he'll still hold that record.

_Incubus_ · 9th September 2008, 08:26

Yes, a great coach can only do so much....and he's working with a limited player base. They dont even have an NPC type comp, its club rugger straight to S14's.

QWERTY? · 9th September 2008, 08:50

dont you mean

club rugger -> super14
and
club league(and its comps) -> NRL -> super14

hehe, so effectively they have a huuugggeee player base to buy from.

just to name afew converts:

international dell (sailor)
lote tuqiri
tahu
matt rogers
brad thorne

5th August 2008, 09:14	#150
mr selfdestruct The Deliverator	LOL just can't get it right can he? Nonu was repeatedly criticised in the England matches for passing too much! Now he holds onto the ball a bit more and he's not passing enough. As the NZ public we're obviously just far too fucking critical eh? Phrack: Cowan's dive pass owns, Ellis never does that shit. If Carter received a pass like that when we played the Springboks Carter would have had enough time for that drop goal at the death but nooooooo Ellis through him a big wonky hospital pass!! errrkkk! __________________ My real signature is not nearly as legible as this one.

5th August 2008, 10:05	#152
mr selfdestruct The Deliverator	I agree with you that he's not much of a decision maker but I actually think he's a very good distributor, he has a very sound pass, left and right. You're right that he's no play maker but that's not why he's there. They expect Carter to be the playmaker and backed up by whose at Centre. I think Nonu will come right. There's no use comparing him to McAlistair and Mauger we they're long gone, I asked you who you'd prefer playing at 12 from the players we've got....... can't think of anyone can you? Because if we picked anyone else they'd be starting from scratch, at least they have an opportunity to mould Nonu who just needs some areas ironed out a bit. __________________ My real signature is not nearly as legible as this one.

3rd August 2008, 10:35	#121
Haydos	Nonu still made several big fuck ups. Many times he had players unmarked on the outside of him and instead of distributing the ball like a good #12 should do, he stepped back into the traffic. He slipped off a couple of tackles, including not being there to cover when Conrad Smith missed his. He lost the ball several times via turn over, due to running into the rucks without much support near him and being easily turned. It's not like the guy had a genius game, in fact if anything, I felt they were more stable when he was pushed to the wing. The guy can run with the ball and break tackles, yes.. but he's a liability.

3rd August 2008, 10:39	#122
Haydos	Oh, and how could I forget, had Nonu not been awarded that dubious try, in which it was a 50/50 decision, his game would have been a little better than last week, not much. Again, he had players unmarked on his side, instead of passing, he took on the tackler and very nearly cost the AB's a bonus point. What I found most funny was the only time one of our wingers got put into a gap by a midfielder, was when Ali Williams was in the backline, received the ball instead of Nonu and fired a miss pass out to the winger. Nonu should take notes. ps... one of the other times a winger got the ball in space? Was when Nonu was out of position and on the wing, where passes where shuffled out to him and left him in a big hole, the hole that ultimately scored the try. Had Nonu been on the inside, would the ball have touched the winger? No. Last edited by Haydos : 3rd August 2008 at 10:43.

3rd August 2008, 10:56	#123
Helious	LOL @ the FOB lines man stopping play twice and could barely explain himself to the ref - hahaha, made me furious, that ref had the mean flow and was pretty good calls.

3rd August 2008, 11:36	#124
fixed_truth	i'm happy that we gave them a more comprehensive hiding than they gave us last week - both on the field & the score board - gg henry

3rd August 2008, 12:25	#125
ZoSo	What a turnaround. Brilliant execution of the kicking game. Total domination there.. and wtf was with the lineout? This was the AB's playing right!? Amazing. Maybe Deans has taken the fucked up NZ lineouts over there, hehe.

3rd August 2008, 12:48	#126
orpheus Jedi Knight	That was a really enjoyable game to watch...not becasue we won but becasue we did everything right. That said its only one game and now consistency is the key. I thought the ref did well too.

3rd August 2008, 16:23	#127
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Everything I think has been commented earlier by others, so I'll stick to things as-yet unmentioned. Richard Kahui's tackle of Lote Tuqiri in the final quarter. Schoolkids should be shown replays of that tackle. The return of the captains was a one-sided affair; Richie had a HUGE impact but Mortlock was surprisingly quiet. Tony Woodcock, man of the match. Two tries in his entire All Black career before tonight, and then two in ten minutes. (Yeah ok he has already been mentioned, but hey, he deserves it)

3rd August 2008, 16:54	#128
Spoon1 Mmm... Sacrilicious	I'd have to watch it again but from my recollection most of the times Nonu took on the line was when he received it close to the defenders and to pass would have been risky. I think the Nonu-bashers need to wake the fuck up and realise he's a different player this year. Ali's cut-out pass was when there was miles of space between the two back-lines.

3rd August 2008, 17:02	#130
ZoSo	Pro Kapa O Pango btw That was a perfect choice and man it showed.

3rd August 2008, 23:53	#133
surreal	In my opinion the forward effort was what created the victory. We had much greater numbers in the rucks this week, a lot more players blowing over and very few free kicks awarded against us there. Cowan didnt make many mistakes thats true, but the forward dominance made it possible. I'm glad Weepu looked sharp when he came on. Williams worked very hard. Nonu didnt get much space . was good to watch

4th August 2008, 00:23	#134
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	It's amazing the difference that one really good player can make. Richie McCaw turns the ABs into an entirely different team.

4th August 2008, 00:25	#135
Maulmonk	Props to Kahui's tackle and not taking anything away from it, but i thought Tuquri was a greedy bastard for not passing when there was like 3 wallabies free and couldve gotten the try.

4th August 2008, 11:50	#136
buckies	Smarter tactical game plan + Richie McCaw = comprehensive victory. I can't see us losing the tri nations so long as these two variables continue to be adherred to in a similar fashion that we witnessed on Saturday. McCaw got several breakdown turnovers, and also saved a number of turnovers from occuring for our tacklers. He's worth a good 10-15 points. Nonu's try shouldn't have been allowed. I feel sorry for the Aussies, especially if that bonus point comes back to haunt them. Nonu did make a meal of it though, he only cantered the first 50 metres before he decided to back himself and pin the ears back. He also should have cut in closer to the line, as there is no way his momentum wouldn't have carried him over should he have done so. I also believe Nonu drew in the defenders well throughout the game but then didn't offload enough when he did, as he did create heaps of space for his outside backs due to the Aussies doubling up on him. There are several instances in the second half where good attacking opportunities were wasted by his poor decision making. Nevertheless, he is a force with the ball in hand and just needs to be educated a bit better. The Aussie try was Smith's fault. Man to man marking and he got owned by Mortlock. As per last week, Smith's defense is questionable, and I don't think he's our man long term. Kahui is too tech. One knock-on blemished an otherwise solid performance. Mills and Sivy also had solid performances. Cowan was great. Snappy delivery and some beautiful kicks off the back of the rucks. I hope Ellis stays injured for the rest of the season, as he sucks, and will only bring us pain and misery should he return to the starting line up. We still don't have a #6. Kaino is a journeyman who proved once again that he isn't up to this international standard. Didn't see him all game aside from when he missed tackles. That aside, it was a good 15 fielded.

4th August 2008, 12:24	#137
Haydos	We've got a great #6 sitting at home in Canterbury. Keiran Read.

4th August 2008, 12:35	#138
pig	Great game, much better gameplan than last week & obviously fat better execution. Best lineout performance from an AB side I have seen in years but it was the tactical kicking & the field position we had that won us the game. McCaw was awesome, can't see Braid getting another game even if Richie does get injured. Also wtf at Sivavatu coming across in cover then switching off & letting Ashley-Cooper run around to score under the posts ? Tuqiri was quiet as was Mortlock, looked like the Aussies may have missed Elsom but he may have only made a difference in the lineout i reckon. Thought the ref was bloody good to but yeah that touch judge was hopeless.

4th August 2008, 16:09	#142
Know me.	Great game the AB's played a much harder game this week. Cowan and Kahui are really commited players and I'd have em in my team any day of the week. I'm not a Nonu fan because I hate his style of play. A good defensive effort can really nutralise it which will cost us in games that count.

4th August 2008, 18:23	#144
JiggaRoll For the Horo	Have to pretty much agree with Haydos, there were quite a few times that Nonu could have spread the ball wider as he was causing the aussies to commit more players to try and stop him leaving space out wide. Instead he tried to break the line or took the ball to ground which isn't bad in its self but when do that constantly and a good part of your job on the field is distribution to wings then you start having problems. In saying that though I still think he has made a huge step up from the player he was in past years that gave away dumb penalties, tried to pass miracle balls and just plain turned off during a game. Can't think of any really dumb things he has done as an AB this year. He also breaks the line and draws 2+ defenders better than almost all our other 2nd fives. Just really has to improve on his decision making and distribution which you would think/hope the coaches would be trying to work on. ps Please let Ellis stay injured for another 3 or 4 weeks. Least cowan can get the ball out of the ruck without having to look both ways, then wait a bit then look again to make sure their defence is set then take a couple of steps and wait for opposition to get in our backline then pass.

4th August 2008, 19:27	#145
Phrack	I noticed a lot of the time when people I was watching the game with hated on Nonu for not passing, Mortlock was just lurking waiting for the pass to be thrown. The midfield were rushing up to make Nonu run. What need to happen was a double around from Carter which would create some depth or a cut out ball straight to the centre. He does sometimes take the wrong option, but he hasn't played a lot of international rugby lately. It's always hard to see the good in someone when all you want is for them to make a mistake to say I told you so. Loved Cowans dive pass, and the emphasis that was put on it in highlight reels. __________________ .......

4th August 2008, 19:36	#146
blynk	I wouldn't be too concerned about Cowan/Ellis at the moment. It would have to be fairly certain that Cowan will start the next 3 games. However Ellis will probably be on the bench

5th August 2008, 10:01	#151
Haydos	In the space of a year, we’ve gone from a team that seemed unbeatable (until the World Cup hoodoo jinxed us) to a team that is beatable, even at home. In the same space of time, guys like Sivivatu, Muliaina, Smith and the other back liners have seen their ball completely dry up, very few times are they put into the gap and they almost have to come in out of position to even touch the ball, all co-insiding with removing a very good distributer of the football (McCallister) and replacing him with a guy who when he does pass, he throws hospital passes and when he doesn’t pass, he’s a good chance at breaking a few tackles before being rolled on the ground and having the ball turned over. We’ve got a far better forward pack than we had, especially with the way Thorn and Williams are operating. Our backline still has the same stars in it, yet they seem dulled. Why? Nonu. No fucking doubt about it, Nonu will cost us matches, as he did the week before in Australia and as he’ll do in South Africa. If you’re going to play him, stick him on the wing where his distribution skills aren’t as important. He isn’t a decision maker, he most definitely isn’t a play maker and the best thing that can be said for him is that he’ll beat the first tackle. Beyond that, his tackling is shoddy, he doesn’t have a kicking game and he doesn’t know how to distribute to his backline.

5th August 2008, 10:21	#153
Haydos	Personally, I'd put Donald in at second five. You can alternate Carter and Donald as the situation requires, giving Carter a bit more width and a bit more depth in the backline to set up more plays. Donald has a running game, while not as good as Nonu, is still good enough to draw defenders. His passing is great on either side, you won't convince me that Nonu can pass well, how many times has he put his players into hospital pass situations? You've also got a tactical and deep kicking game in Donald, as well as defense that can be depended upon. Mix him up with Kahui in the centres and you've got a solid, proven combination in both attack and defense and ultimately you give the backline two proven playmakers at Super 14 who can put their players into holes. But, outside of that? Conrad Smith is a better option than Nonu, hell, Muliaina when McDonald is fit is a better option than Nonu.

5th August 2008, 11:17	#155
buckies	Nonu is the win. His pass is very good when he does pass, and in the midfield he draws in multiple defenders which in turn frees up space on the outside for the centre, fullback and wing. He did a beautiful line break and well timed pass against the poms. He made a few bad calls in the weekend but for the chances he creates he cannot be compromised. In the modern era of defensive rugby, line breakers of his quality cannot be over emphasized enough. Donald ain't in the same league as a number 12. If anything, I'd like to see Nonu + Kahui as our established combo, but I don't think that will be established till next year, as the coaches will want to play it safe and maintain the Welly midfield combo for the rest of the Tri Nations. You should save your judgement till the end of the Tri Nations, but i suspect that the verdict will be a positive one if you do. No doubt the coaching staff will encourage further distribution from him in the games to come. However, he's solid enough to not get turned when taking the ball in, and always makes ground when he does, which keeps me happy.

1st September 2008, 15:12	#156
herp	I've noticed all those people who were backing Deans before have all gone quiet. He just coached Aussie to their worst ever loss. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

1st September 2008, 15:33	#157
ZoSo	Maybe those of us a little less hysterical, still realize it's the NZ vs AU game next, that counts? You know, to win the overall cup.

1st September 2008, 15:36	#158
herp	Oh yeah, I know that, but still - it was Australia's worst ever loss at the hands of someone who many wanted to become the All Blacks coach. Win or lose the tri nations, he'll still hold that record.

9th September 2008, 08:26	#159
_Incubus_	Yes, a great coach can only do so much....and he's working with a limited player base. They dont even have an NPC type comp, its club rugger straight to S14's.

9th September 2008, 08:50	#160
QWERTY?	dont you mean club rugger -> super14 and club league(and its comps) -> NRL -> super14 hehe, so effectively they have a huuugggeee player base to buy from. just to name afew converts: international dell (sailor) lote tuqiri tahu matt rogers brad thorne __________________ please discontinue your lies. Last edited by QWERTY? : 9th September 2008 at 08:54.