All Blacks 08 and beyond

[_Incubus_]

Getting my rugby news through rugbyheaven & stuff it seems that there is an undercurrent of quiet panic about all the new combinations and the lamenting over the departed AB players overseas. I dont really agree, we still have a dearth of talented players that can and will make the step up to the test match arena as well as the born again AB's getting recalls with some outstanding Super14 form this year..

As much as I am not a fan of Nonu, no-one breaks the line like he does, hes like Mortlock, a headache for defence all night.

Brad Thorn, I rubbed my hands with glee reading his name on the selection list, he has had a pretty damn good performance the last season and no one works harder...and hes being used as a starting player rather than an impact line crasher under Mitch.

Carter - good on him, he has his cake and gets to eat it..the AB lover in me is sad to see him go for a season, but the kiwi in me that has already done the big OE (still on it) completely understands, its got to be a good thing to help him grow as a person and get some perspective on him being treated like Jesus Christ in NZ. He'll be back and a better player for it.

Tuitavake had a standout Super14 and he deserves his chance, great strong body frame, he reminds me of a Tana strong on yer feet able to bust the initial tackle player. Possible future 13 after his AB apprenticeship.

Also the Irish are talking up a storm, obviously they think talking themselves up and the AB's down is a great way to get an advantage over the boys in black..I'd suggest its ammo for each player called into question to beat the living fuck out of the arrogant paddys. Winning a club competition does not translate into being instant test match AB world beaters. We've won the Super 12/14 how many times? And how many World Cups did that form translate into?

[caffiend]

I agree. The performance by the ABs tomorrow could well be ropey, but Ireland will still have to do well to win I reckon. I'll be disappointed if we play really badly, and lose to an average Ireland squad. But I'll be happy if the ABs show some promise - even if we lose to a 'playing-out-of-their-skins' Irish team.

All I'm looking for in this game is evidence that we still have some core talented players (which I believe we have, as you mentioned) and some exciting new ones. A win would be great, especially a comprehensive one, but it won't be the end of the world if we lose.

I also agree about the inclusion of Nonu. I've always liked his playing style, and he had a good S14. I just hope he's fixed his 'offload' skills and stays disciplined.

ps: FYI - "Dearth" actually means 'insufficiency'.

[Furry Crew]

for the 1st time EVER

There's a test match tomorrow and I honestly couldn't give 2 fucks about it...

...actually more interested about the cricket test in england @ the moment

[buckies]

Don't think otherwise. They'll still get rolled by our superior fitness and work rate, although it might take 60 minutes before the flood gates open.

They're playing conservative well established super 14 combinations as another safe guard to ensure the win.

The Q is the margin. I'm tossing up between 8-14 and 15-21. Don't think the ABs can't give these Irish a thorough hiding as man to man on paper we spank them across the park.


On selections, I hate Smith and the selectors for going with him. I will grant them exception this once, solely because Nonu has played with Smith outside him all centre. However, for Tri Nations etc I want to see Kahui have a fair chance to own that 13 jersey.

Afoa is somewhat questionable too, but it's only a prop so I'm not too fussed.

Thorne is still a question mark. Sure, he has a high work rate and had a good season, but how much of that do we attribute to him simply being with Deans and the Crusaders?

[Ab]

I'm picking the ABs to smash 'em. Hope the paramedics are standing by in case something happens to BOD in which he could have died.


Apologies for mangling the tenses.

[badassmofo]

lol, it's Welly mate, the breeze here would be enough to make BOD keel over.
I'm picking a strong Irish fight, but I think we'll come through in the end. Really could go either way.

[Phrack]

I think the Irish will put up a good fight. They have a lot of confidence and I would think most of the team would be from Munster. I watched a few of their games and their forwards had an excellent work rate. I think they will contest very well there. I agree with buckies about fitness. I don't think they will be near our level of fitness.

I've always been a fan of Nonu, would love to see Nonu/Tuitivake combination in the centres. There is no need for Mils to go anywhere near centre imo. These two will hopefully have big games, as the selection process tends to be 'you have one chance or you're out'.. I think that's a failing because some players just need time to develop. We're too spoiled for choice so just mix people around. Where as Aussie/South Africa tend to stick with players even if they play badly, but they improve.

I think Carter will have a big game, he has to prove he's worth this deal he's got going.

For the first time in ages, I'm looking forward to this match. Don't think I have watched a game for almost 2 years. Can't wait to see some of these players back in black/wearing black.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Graham Henry

"You just can't afford to lose rugby test matches in Rugby World Cups without creating a huge reaction in this country.

"That's the way it is and the expectation is huge. You wouldn't want to change that expectation. That's one of the strengths of the game in this country.

"Because of the expectation, if we don't live up to that expectation for whatever reason you are going to have criticism."

Amazing. I've never heard someone bend over so far backwards to avoid making himself the subject of a statement. It's like the whole World Cup fiasco and whitewash happened to someone else entirely.

[caffiend]

JesuschristgetthefuckoveritAb.

[a-tech]

Originally Posted by Furry Crew

...actually more interested about the cricket test in england @ the moment

hah - least if the ABs play like shit tonight the pain lasts for less than 2 hours!

[badassmofo]

hah, you don't think the Black Cap batsmen could last less than 2 hours? Wait for the next innings!

[a-tech]

Touché

[caffiend]

Happy with the ABs performance last night. The Irish put up a half decent fight, so the scoreline and low error rate in those conditions meant they actually did ok in my opinion. Early days.

Glad to see Nonu get a try, even though he didn't get many chances - damn he slid for miles going over. McCaw was phenomenal as usual, Rodney was hard-core (if a bit stupid staying on). I felt bad for Tuitavake, he had a very mediocre first outing. You could argue that nothing was created for him, but McDonald was far more in the game after he came on.

Looking forward to next week when hopefully conditions will be better

ps: When you see an Irishman wrapped up in a heavy coat but still shivering in the post match interview, you know it must've been cold. Then again... it was O'Driscoll... so it might not have been too bad.

[blynk]

The wings basically had nothing all night.
When MacDonald came on, he jumped to full back which is why he got some ball.

I thought it was a good performance. In weather like that, you are hardly going to dominate.
The handling errors were down to, but that can be put down to close tight play & kicking.

[buckies]

MacDonald is the best fullback in New Zealand at the moment, and hopefully the coaching staff come to this realisation and start him in future tests. You can't deny he had a better Super14 and game on Saturday than Mills.

Mills has gotten slower and is not reliable or consistent. He is worse under the high ball, at defending, and at clearing compared to MacDonald.

I'd rather have a rock at fullback any day.

[blur^]

a rock that has a history of getting concussions alot?

[Ab]

Such as?

[mr selfdestruct]

Prediction: End of next year either Mils or Leon will move on and Cory Jane will finally get the nod.

I enjoyed that test immensely which is saying something considering the atrocious weather, it was an EXCELLENT weekend at the TAB too. Could not believe my luck with that generous Irish Point Start they offered, too good to be true!

[caffiend]

MacDonald had a few concussions several years ago - but lately he's been even more physical in his playing than ever and hasn't had a head problem at all. I think he can handle the hits as well as anyone these days.

I am getting pissed of with the NZ media at the moment. They're trying to make out BS like "the entire country demanded nothing more than a massive scoreline thrashing of Ireland" in order to "put the demons of Cardiff to rest and absolve Henry once and for all"; and that somehow the showing on Saturday was a big disappointment.

Fuck off. Most people I know fully expected the first hit out this season would be shaky, and were more than happy with the performance given the conditions, newness of the team combo and the fact Ireland put up a decent fight.

The media has clearly got an Anti-Henry agenda which (aside from a few people) doesn't really hold true in the actual, real world.

[mr selfdestruct]

I think you could be right unless everyone in NZ has suddenly turned coat because in numerous public polls prior to Henry's reappointment the public was always in favour of giving him another crack.

[buckies]

yeah it's media bullshit alright.

I was very happy with the way the ABs played, but I still fucking hate Henry and want him gone. I imagine most of the public are of the same mindset. If Saturday was a dry track we would have piled on 20+ points given the dominance in possession. The weather conditions were the only thing keeping the Irish in the game.

True, both MacDonald and Mills won't be around for the next world cup, but, for now, the best fullback in NZ is MacDonald, and he deserves to be starting as a result.

[blynk]

Originally Posted by caffiend

I am getting pissed of with the NZ media at the moment. They're trying to make out BS like "the entire country demanded nothing more than a massive scoreline thrashing of Ireland" in order to "put the demons of Cardiff to rest and absolve Henry once and for all"; and that somehow the showing on Saturday was a big disappointment.

Fuck off. Most people I know fully expected the first hit out this season would be shaky, and were more than happy with the performance given the conditions, newness of the team combo and the fact Ireland put up a decent fight.

The media has clearly got an Anti-Henry agenda which (aside from a few people) doesn't really hold true in the actual, real world.

Could not agree more. You can clearly read who has issues with Henry.

[ipee]

Originally Posted by buckies

Mills has gotten slower and is not reliable or consistent. He is worse under the high ball, at defending, and at clearing compared to MacDonald.

Its funny you say that because that's exactly why Mills always gets picked ahead of Leon......Mill's is better under the high ball, is a better defender and defuses tricky situations better than Leon. And to top it off, Mills can play centre position a lot better than Macdonald.

[ipee]

As if Henry's treatment of JC wasn't bad enough......now you got another of the "3 wise men" claiming McCaw is better than Michael Jones!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/...ectid=10515157

I think we can all agree MJ was one of the greatest rugby players to ever play the game, to chuck McCaw into the same league as Jones, especially when he's only half-way into his career is quite insulting to the educated rugby fan. McCaw may reach those heights but at the moment he is no Jones. MJ was faster, more athletic and a better defender......who could forget the sight of Jones cutting the opposition in half time and time again!

Let's wait till McCaw nears retirement before we start making these sorts of comparisons ok Hansen?

[Ab]

Richie's the best openside flanker in the world, but I wouldn't yet take him over Josh Kronfeld... let alone Michael Jones.

[buckies]

Originally Posted by ipee

Its funny you say that because that's exactly why Mills always gets picked ahead of Leon......Mill's is better under the high ball, is a better defender and defuses tricky situations better than Leon. And to top it off, Mills can play centre position a lot better than Macdonald.

Eh? No way is Mills a better tackler or clearer than MacDonald. The only point I'd debate is under the high ball, but again, I'd pick MacDonald here.

I've always thought that they picked Mils ahead because he has the better running game with the ball in hand, but, IMO, fullbacks should be picked on their defensive merits first and foremost.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by buckies

Eh? No way is Mills a better tackler or clearer than MacDonald. The only point I'd debate is under the high ball, but again, I'd pick MacDonald here.

I've always thought that they picked Mils ahead because he has the better running game with the ball in hand, but, IMO, fullbacks should be picked on their defensive merits first and foremost.

I'm going to have to go with buckies here, I'd have Leon in my team ahead of Mils purely for his outstanding defensive work.

Can't wait to see Tuitivake on a dry track against England! I have a sneaking suspicion that Cowan might get the nod to start in one of the England tests just to get him some decent game time in case Ellis or Leonard go down again before a Tri Nations match.

[blynk]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

I have a sneaking suspicion that Cowan might get the nod to start in one of the England tests just to get him some decent game time in case Ellis or Leonard go down again before a Tri Nations match.

But thats called rotation & building depth, and the NZ public don't want that. They want the best 15 on the park.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by blynk

But thats called rotation & building depth, and the NZ public don't want that. They want the best 15 on the park.

Have you not realised yet that Henry doesn't care what the public wants?

Let's put it to the vote, who is the better half back, Ellis or Cowan? I vote Cowan

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

Have you not realised yet that Henry doesn't care what the public wants?

Have you not realised yet that blynk was being sarcastic?

[ZoSo]

England eh. Dry track perhaps. Some pressure.

[buckies]

Unblooded English side + playing away + playing ABs + dry track + ABs having an extra week of combinations and experience = hiding for English side.

Henry is a coward for using the media to sensationalise a challenging contest. He is just trying to plant the seed of excuse now in case an unlikely loss occurs.

Given the conditions surrounding the match, anything less than a 15+ point victory would be a disappointing result.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by caffiend

Have you not realised yet that blynk was being sarcastic?

Have you not realised yet that I was being sarcastic knowing full well blynk was being sarcastic?

[ipee]

Originally Posted by buckies

Henry is a coward for using the media to sensationalise a challenging contest. He is just trying to plant the seed of excuse now in case an unlikely loss occurs.

Oh shit! Henry's on to the money here! Maybe he needs to patent this unique and original idea of talking up the opposition?

[leadinjector]

did anyone catch the swordfighting beforehand?

[Rince]

so buckies.... still bagging Smith?

[wugambino]

Sheridan , over rated much?

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by wugambino

Sheridan , over rated much?

Put Kaino and Lauaki in the same category.

[JiggaRoll]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Put Kaino and Lauaki in the same category.

I thought Kaino was more solid off the back than Lauaki, don't think either of them deserve to be put into the Sheridan category just yet. Will give them a few more games before I piss and moan about how much better I would play

Was it Lauaki doing the lazy run back to the ball when Ojo scored his second try?

[blynk]

Originally Posted by JiggaRoll

I thought Kaino was more solid off the back than Lauaki, don't think either of them deserve to be put into the Sheridan category just yet. Will give them a few more games before I piss and moan about how much better I would play

Was it Lauaki doing the lazy run back to the ball when Ojo scored his second try?

Yep it was Lauaki, but I don't think he was doing a lazy run. I think that was his speed.
Its quite funny about the comments above about full back and that Mils made a try saving tackle, and Leon got a head bump.