The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Ab]

Ironically, if it survives this invasion, the invasion is probably going to be the thing that turns Ukraine into a real actual nation-state.

[Nich]

True enough. It would command respect from it's neighbours. Don't fuck with Ukraine.

On the flip side, if Russia survives this "weaken Russia" attack it will form an energy monopoly with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Azerbaijan and a monopoly on industry + commerce with China. Enticing African, and third world countries away from the West:
-Woke solar panels, drug experiments, and EU diet (soy, eating insects); or
-Oil, money, trade, and a steak?

And, maybe by 2030 they'll entice some woke/broke "Western" countries away from the West.

[_indigo1]

And there will be a Russian Nich railing against Easteriners in Denial.

[Nich]

I like red meat, I like electricity, and I like a warm house in winter. And damn it I'll learn to speak Russian or Mandarin to continue enjoying these things if it comes to that.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Nich

True enough. It would command respect from it's neighbours. Don't fuck with Ukraine.

Not with regards to how others see Ukraine; rather how Ukraine sees itself. If it survives the invasion.

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Ab

Ironically, if it survives this invasion, the invasion is probably going to be the thing that turns Ukraine into a real actual nation-state.

It's a process that started in 2014 when the Ukrainians finally got rid of the corrupt ex-president Viktor Yanukovych (a Kremlin puppet now living under protection in Russia). Unfortunately before they managed to remove the cancer it had already metastasized to the Donbas and Crimea. So, treatment has taken longer than expected but the long-term prognosis is for an eventual recovery.

[Nich]

If they can wriggle away from USA sniffing it's hair, I completely agree. Ukraine was a producer pre-2014 (it had a space program!), and USA / EU turned them into a consumer.

Saudi Arabia sticks their thumb in Biden's eye:
https://twitter.com/ppetrov5/status/...DnBSz81X5GPorw

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/10/...press-tv-iran/


Majority of global oil and gas, from this point forward, will not trade in USD. This is what hybrid war looks like.

[Nich]

Originally Posted by Ajax

It's a process that started in 2014 when the Ukrainians finally got rid

Wikipedia, really, for THIS subject? Consider the wikipedia law: the more political the topic, the more unreliable the Wikipedia article. You may have linked to THE single most unreliable wikipedia article.

What does this say about you, Ajax? You are purposefully lazy and/or hopelessly biased.


The "Snipers' Massacre" on the Maidan in Ukraine

A previously unreported intercept of radio communications by the SBU Alfa commanders ... “shooters” or “snipers” were moving to the Hotel Ukraina and that they were from the Maidan side. ... shooters moving to the Hotel Ukraina was made at 9:23am.
...
There are various videos showing that the entrance, stairways, and elevators in the Hotel Ukraina during the entire massacre since about 9:00am were controlled by the Maidan side.
...
In 9:07-9:11am, six protesters were killed within less than 150 meters from the Parasiuk-led group, in particular from the Hotel Ukraina and Ukrkoopspilka building; and at 9:10am there was a public announcement from the Maidan stage about snipers in the Hotel Ukraina.

Hotel Ukraina
https://clarityofsignal.com/2017/06/...iel-gatehouse/

Originally Posted by Nich

A snapshot, 2014:
Foreign Affairs' Gideon Rose discusses the origins and implications of the Ukraine rebellion. (USA vpn required)
https://www.cc.com/video/8067fc/the-...ne-gideon-rose
"We need to steal Russia's girlfriend." (and remember when Colbert was funny!?)

Breaking: Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and Catherine Ashton discuss Ukraine over the phone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8
"They were the same snipers, killing people from both sides... new coalition does not want to investigate."

Nuland-Pyatt leaked phone conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k
"Yatz is the guy... fuck the EU."

Ukrainian General: "Ukraine is under Zionist occupation." / Генерал: "Украину оккупировали Сионисты"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu8JolUBNfg
"Initially it looked like 2 clans fighting...and now it's simply a direct Occupation of Ukraine by the US."

Oliver Stone's Revealing Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhu3lfgHhCI
“Revealing Ukraine” by Igor Lopatonok continues investigations on of the ongoing Ukrainian crisis following “Ukraine on Fire”. In addition, it analyzes the current political backstage and its dangerous potential for the world.

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Nich

Wikipedia, really, for THIS subject? Consider the wikipedia law: the more political the topic, the more unreliable the Wikipedia article. You may have linked to THE single most unreliable wikipedia article.

Feel free to critique its contents rather than just bitch about Wikipedia. It's already survived a million Russian troll edits.

[Nich]

I am critiquing the contents, and what it chooses to omit.

https://canadiandimension.com/articl...ussia-conflict

Two leaders of the far-right Svoboda party also stated in separate interviews that a Western government representative told them and other Maidan leaders a few weeks before the massacre that Western governments would stop recognizing Yanukovych after casualties among protesters reached 100.

yes. the "heavenly hundred"

[Ajax]

I'm sure there were shooters and provocateurs on both sides, as there are during revolutions. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The important thing is they removed the corrupt puppet regime.

[Nich]

Ok sure, a pro-Russian corrupt puppet regime was removed. And in its place, a pro-USA corrupt puppet regime.

According to The Guardian, THE most corrupt in Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...europe-ukraine

You took away their shit sandwich, vomited in it, and handed it back to them. And you call it a "process". A process to what?!

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Nich

According to The Guardian, THE most corrupt in Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...europe-ukraine

That's from 2015 during the Yanukovych hangover.

Yes, cutting out the Kremlin cancer and returning to self-governance is a gradual process that takes a long time. And they need help from the west. But it's the only way forward.

[Nich]

October 9, 2021
Pandora Papers: Leaks prompt investigations in some countries — and denial in others
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...andora-papers/

The Pandora Papers named 38 Ukrainian politicians — the most out of any country — but President Volodymyr Zelensky, who campaigned as an anti-corruption candidate, has yet to respond to the investigation.

The leaks disclosed that Zelensky, a former comedian, and his partners in show business owned multiple offshore companies, including at least one that was involved in the purchase of several properties in central London.

Just before his election, Zelensky transferred his stake in one of the companies registered in the British Virgin Islands to an associate who later became the president’s top aide.

An adviser to Zelensky’s chief of staff said Monday that the Ukrainian leader established the offshore network in 2012 to “protect” the income generated by him and his associates in the entertainment industry under the pro-Russian government of Viktor Yanukovych.

“Journalists have de facto confirmed the president’s absolute respect for the standards of anti-corruption legislation,” the adviser, Mykhailo Podoliak, told Agence France-Presse.

ahhhh yes, "Russia made me set up a shell company."

[Ajax]

Makes sense to have hidden his assets from the tentacles of Yanukovych. If it surprises you that this guy uses offshore companies, I have some news about Putin and his cronies.

Russians were more prevalent in the Pandora Papers than people of any other nationality, having links to around 14% of the companies whose ownership is revealed in the leak. In the Pandora Papers, there were nearly 3,700 companies with more than 4,400 beneficiaries who were Russian nationals.

[DrTiTus]

The people I've spoken to were still paying bribes in 2021 to their teachers to graduate from university. I don't think it's accurate to conclude that it's no longer corrupt. It's engrained in their culture.

Forgive me for being logical and cynical, but I don't think the CIA "regime changed" the country to stop Ukrainian citizens having to pay bribes. What does the USA care about how much or how little the Ukrainian citizens earn or pay in bribes? The USA only cares about how much wealth and influence the USA can extract to line their own pockets. And that likely applies to Russia equally, if we're honest. This is global politics, where decisions are made by individuals, working at a level involving entire populations and land areas, lines drawn on a map, amounts measured in billions, effected with strategies to have more power in the world. If some poor schmuck has to pay money to pass university, that's their business. It's insignificant when you consider the same people claiming to be "defending a country" (both USA and Russia, again let's be fair) are willing to literally destroy unknown people's homes and end random people's lives to impose their will. I'm sure the families of people who died would have much rather paid a bribe than to have them die to further some politician's personal career. The USA sure needs a lot of weapons to promote fair voting aka "spreading democracy". If they were dropping marker pens and paper on countries, and shipping old people and cardboard booths I'd take them more seriously.

There are valid arguments from both sides. The mistake is thinking any of these people whose names you know (Putin, Biden, Zelensky, etc) know your name in return, or give a fuck about you or anyone else. They're all corrupt, and if you think otherwise, you're naive. You'll find dirt on them all if you go digging. That's the depressing part. The world is run by criminals.

I don't have the solution - humans have managed to become the stupidest and the most intelligent species on the planet at the same time. Check out our big brains. We've used our intelligence to outwit and outsmart and dominate/destroy others rather than doing "the Lord's work" and providing abundance and peace for all. The last m0f0 that tried to do the Lord's work got crucified. Everyone else since then just collected donations.

[Nich]

Ok, cool, you've got it in for Putin.

If we're going to compare the "backers" now do USA, UK, City of London, and all NATO countries corruption.

We're talking about shithole Ukraine. There's plenty of countries that could use a little help toward self-governance. Palestine, Yemen, Tibet. I don't want to help Ukraine if we're not going to help the others. My tax dollars send soldiers and equipment into this wasteland. Why!? Why not let them get crushed by the bear like any other oppressed nation?

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Nich

We're talking about shithole Ukraine.

This thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin is obviously relevant.

There's plenty of countries that could use a little help toward self-governance. Palestine, Yemen, Tibet.

Feel free to start separate threads about any of those.

[Nich]

I might make a thread about the Kerch bridge terrorist attack, and how Ukraine celebrated in the streets and deserves missiles and drones raining down on their heads.

I wonder if anyone would point out that some events happened prior to the bridge attack that might add some historical context. Well if they do I'll say "This thread is about Ukraine attacking a bridge! If they didn't want missiles raining down, they shouldn't have attacked the bridge!"

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Nich

I might make a thread about the Kerch bridge terrorist attack

Go for it.

[Trigga*happY]

Nich, where would you rather live, rank these places in order...

Australia, USA, Russia, New Zealand, Ukraine, China, Palestine.

[Nich]

Most preferred to least:
Australia (regional, cities too woke and full of mentally ill)
New Zealand (regional, Lake Wanaka)
USA (regional, any state but California, New York... avoid mentally ill)
Russia (metro, St Petersburg)
China (metro, Macau)
Ukraine (don't know what's least shit there...)
Palestine (Jerusalem, may as well maximise the exposure to violence)

[_Incubus_]

Originally Posted by Nich

Most preferred to least:
Australia (regional, cities too woke and full of mentally ill)
New Zealand (regional, Lake Wanaka)
USA (regional, any state but California, New York... avoid mentally ill)
Russia (metro, St Petersburg)
China (metro, Macau)
Ukraine (don't know what's least shit there...)
Palestine (Jerusalem, may as well maximise the exposure to violence)

The couple of times I've been to Macau I thought it was a dirty shithole full of Russian whores and grubby Chinese men gambling and whoring. It looks pretty at night but during daylight hours it's a filthy dump unless you're in a casino resort.

[Nich]

Yep, if I can't live in low density countryside, I'll just go full degenerate or high risk of death.

[_Incubus_]

Originally Posted by Nich

Yep, if I can't live in low density countryside, I'll just go full degenerate or high risk of death.

Right, Macau fits that bill then...

We're trying to do a tree change in Adelaide at the moment but everyone seems to want to be moving out of the city and have a lifestyle block.

[Cyberbob]

Iran wants in.

E.U. to sanction Iran for supplying Russia with drones to attack Ukraine

[Nich]

Iran said they didn't supply the drones. This is just random punitive action.

[Nich]

https://twitter.com/PearsonSharp/sta...29284066934786

[BoyWonder]

Originally Posted by Nich

Iran said they didn't supply the drones. This is just random punitive action.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia...live-interview

[Ajax]

The suicide drones in question are the highly distinctive Shahed 136 type: designed and built only in Iran and exported in large numbers to Russia.

[Nich]

also they sound terrifying, like explosive flying lawn mowers.

[Nich]

"our father is Bandera"
https://twitter.com/historyoarmani2/...58713222262784

Germany can fund neonazis, but German press can't show images of neonazis doing nazi things. OK.
https://twitter.com/LindseySnell/sta...78674961661952

[Nich]

Time Magazine 2021 8-minute documentary on Azov.
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1350428277610065925


It's such a hilarious paradox. In the West we would rather chew off our own arm than be seen to be racist or associated with white supremacy, yet it's acceptable and expected we wear blue and yellow, send donations.

Tricked to betray one's principles en masse. Or maybe there were no principles to begin with.

Me, I've got a line I will not cross. I've played enough Wolfenstein to know nazis are the baddies.

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Nich

Me, I've got a line I will not cross. I've played enough Wolfenstein to know nazis are the baddies.

Here's Dmitry Utkin, a founder and leader of Wagner Group, which is heavily engaged on the Russian side in Ukraine.

Note: Waffen SS collar tabs, Reichsadler eagle.



From Time: But the Wagner operatives left more than boobytraps. They also spray-painted swastikas and SS lightning bolts as graffiti wherever they went. Nazi symbols are popular among the mercenaries; in Ukraine in April, a leader of Task Force Rusich, a Wagner subsidiary, was videotaped wearing the Valknot and Tatenkoph of the 3rd SS Panzer Division. Wagner itself is named after the notoriously antisemitic German composer, whose operas famously made Hitler weep.

[Nich]

nono, you've got it wrong, those are "ultra nationalist" tattoos if they're on a Russian.

but seriously, lure them all to Kyiv and nuke em from orbit. Instant improvement for the world

[Lightspeed]

So what's the bet Russia floods Kherson as it leaves?

[BoyWonder]

Hey Nich, what's your opinion on the Mongrel Mob? They display plenty of Nazi symbolism. Should Russia invade New Zealand next?

[Nich]

New Zealand doesn't have ceasefire agreements with Russia, isn't sending NATO trained soldiers to slaughter ethnic Russians, and has zero missile systems that can reach NZ, so Russia could care less about Nazi's in NZ.

[Nich]

https://twitter.com/eireacht/status/1583586173347254272

[Ajax]

This POV footage of a Russian pilot being shot down is… a helluva thing.

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1584350264198168576