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Old 6th December 2016, 19:18     #41
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
His host vessel is beginning to weaken and he has to resign before his human form fails completely thus revealing his true lizard self.
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Old 6th December 2016, 20:09     #42
The Edge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
English? Not feeling it.
Coleman? Not feeling it.
Collins? Not feeling it.
Don Brash is feeling Collins though. Dunno why, she has no personality whatsoever. Tonne of sour grapes from Brash there...how many elections did he win again? Oh, yes...0.
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Old 6th December 2016, 20:46     #43
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Brash is a sperg of the highest order. Doesn't get people at all.
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Old 6th December 2016, 21:19     #44
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Brash is a sperg of the highest order. Doesn't get people at all.
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Old 6th December 2016, 21:47     #45
madmaxii
 
Brash is a yesterdays man, still is, will always be.
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Old 7th December 2016, 01:44     #46
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Would a "right wing" leader go on a Keynsian public-works spending spree funded by public debt (roads, Chch, etc) as Key has done? Would a "right wing" leader publicly lend his name and support to a campaign to discard our colonial flag in favour of a unique flag that reflected our identity?
I don't think that any New Zealand politician, left, right, or otherwise, would have refused to invest in transport infrastructure or spend some money fixing up Chc after the quake down there. Thus, I don't think that these points can count as evidence for John's "leftie tendencies". I think JK was pretty right wing as far as the political spectrum in NZ goes. Having said that, I have read some analyses which basically suggest that all he really did was to continue the policies of the previous Labour government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Would a "right wing" leader not only retain the social policies of the left government he replaced (e.g. Working for Families) but increase benefit spending?
The increase in benefit spending was still smaller than inflation, so not a real increase, afaik.
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Old 7th December 2016, 07:20     #47
fixed_truth
 
A well written piece by Giovanni Tiso - The man without a legacy
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Old 7th December 2016, 11:52     #48
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I don't always agree with Tiso - he comments from a very 20th-century Italian socialist-slash-communist perspective on most things and a lot of his observations just seem alien to the New Zealand experience for me. But on this he and I seem to agree:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
I wish he was retiring a bit less popular for having expended some popularity on doing stuff that needed to be done.
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Old 7th December 2016, 12:03     #49
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
The increase in benefit spending was still smaller than inflation, so not a real increase, afaik.
The point is, a right-wing leader would have cancelled that shit outright. Hell, in a number of categories Key's National increased funding by a greater degree than his Labour predecessors did.
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Old 7th December 2016, 12:12     #50
ZoSo
 
The beauty of a Key is that both a Brash and a Tiso are impotent.
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Old 7th December 2016, 17:07     #51
Lightspeed
 
The only thing Key seemed effective at was keeping his popularity.

His legacy is shit like the whole "academics are like lawyers" nonsense. When people feel they are on solid ground questioning stuff like climate change, vaccines, fluoride in the water, the reason is leaders making these kinds of statements.
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Old 7th December 2016, 17:36     #52
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Summary: a centrist with leftie tendencies.
Compared to most west, most of NZ are a bunch of raving lefties. Compared to NZ, Key is firmly on the right, any left tendencies are marginal. Both in regard to policy and politics. He can engage in shit that no one on the left can if they want to keep their supporters.

But it's one thing to say Key is on the right, another to say he's an ideologue. I'm guessing you're getting this from the blogs? Or are you reading too many Stuff comments? I can't say I've seen that view taken seriously very often.

I've always respected him for unambiguously supporting the treaty, stating that NZ has to accept it's a multicultural society built on a bi-cultural foundation. I'm not sure where that fits on the left/right paradigm. It does have its limits I think.
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Old 8th December 2016, 17:06     #53
Cyberbob
 
Coleman's out.
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Old 9th December 2016, 03:19     #54
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
The point is, a right-wing leader would have cancelled that shit outright.
I guess I think that the context is important. You're talking right/left in some sort of absolute terms, rather than in the relative terms of the New Zealand context. In the New Zealand context, I think even the most right wing politicians we have (ACT?) probably realise that, as you say, cancelling that shit outright, would be political suicide, and hence wouldn't do it. Thus, I think that, because of the context, you're applying an unreasonable standard in order to make the claim that Key has 'leftie tendencies' seem reasonable.

Additionally, I think that it's important to realise that the political environment in which Key increased benefit payments by less than inflation is a political environment in which wealth inequality has been becoming an increasingly important political issue. It's not an issue that any politician wanting to maintain a semblance of popularity can afford to completely ignore at the moment. Thus, arguably, we might reasonably believe that Key acted to raise benefit payments out of a sense political self-preservation much more than any belief that it was the right thing to do. The fact that he did it really tells us very little about what he would have actually wanted to do.
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Old 9th December 2016, 14:03     #55
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 


fucking jews amirite
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Old 9th December 2016, 18:30     #56
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
I guess I think that the context is important. You're talking right/left in some sort of absolute terms, rather than in the relative terms of the New Zealand context. In the New Zealand context, I think even the most right wing politicians we have (ACT?) probably realise that, as you say, cancelling that shit outright, would be political suicide, and hence wouldn't do it. Thus, I think that, because of the context, you're applying an unreasonable standard in order to make the claim that Key has 'leftie tendencies' seem reasonable.

Additionally, I think that it's important to realise that the political environment in which Key increased benefit payments by less than inflation is a political environment in which wealth inequality has been becoming an increasingly important political issue. It's not an issue that any politician wanting to maintain a semblance of popularity can afford to completely ignore at the moment. Thus, arguably, we might reasonably believe that Key acted to raise benefit payments out of a sense political self-preservation much more than any belief that it was the right thing to do. The fact that he did it really tells us very little about what he would have actually wanted to do.
lol ab u got schooled
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Old 9th December 2016, 21:43     #57
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
You read some crazy shit, Ab.
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Old 10th December 2016, 16:13     #58
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Author: Bill Sutton, Napier Labour Electorate Committee Chair, Labour MP 1984-1990, published in the NZH last week.

Of course he looks like this
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Old 10th December 2016, 18:53     #59
pxpx
 
the phrase "impotent rage" comes to mind
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Old 10th December 2016, 21:58     #60
Lightspeed
 
Well, it's not hard to take an unflattering photo. But he only has himself to blame for being an idiot.

Still, reading the NZH? What do you expect?
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Old 10th December 2016, 23:11     #61
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
What, is it the Herald's fault that the guy is anti-semitic?
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Old 10th December 2016, 23:23     #62
Lightspeed
 
There are always going to be idiots, if you want the opinion of one the NZH is clearly the place to go.
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:02     #63
Trigga*happY
 
To be fair - NZ as a whole tends to turn on it's leader within it's fourth term, "The Govmint is to blame!". If any one person stays as leader for too long they leave with negative popularity, so he's done the smart thing if he wants to be remembered for his positive achievements rather than his fsckups.
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Old 1st May 2017, 06:27     #64
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
I still think there might be something come out of Pike River. Maybe enough to sink national in the coming months. That kind of gamble might have played on his mind too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Yeah and I'm sure the Benghazi smoking gun was in Hillary's deleted emails too.
Hmmmm...
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Old 1st May 2017, 07:27     #65
pxpx
 
Sooo, what's the government covering up exactly?
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Old 1st May 2017, 09:06     #66
fixed_truth
 
Where there's smoke . . . there's not always fire?
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Old 1st May 2017, 09:24     #67
Juju
get to da choppa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Sooo, what's the government covering up exactly?
My theory - 4 hours of video of tunnels, water, burnt equipment, rocks.

Why not release it? Because who wants to see 4 hours of tunnels, water, burnt equipment, rocks?

People bent on exposing the 'cover up'... that's who.
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Old 5th June 2017, 09:45     #68
fixed_truth
 
Wow, 6 months later and it's Sir John. It was inevitable though doing it now risks coming across as cronyism I reckon.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...s-to-the-state
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Old 5th June 2017, 10:00     #69
[Malks] Pixie
 
I was under the impression all ex-pm's get offered a knighthood if they want one.
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Old 5th June 2017, 12:28     #70
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I must say, the nutters at the Standard are taking this remarkably well:

https://thestandard.org.nz/arise-sir-john/
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Old 5th June 2017, 13:19     #71
ZoSo
 
Duncan Garner will be happy as the tolerant left social media swarm moves on to it's next daily victim.
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Old 5th June 2017, 13:54     #72
Lightspeed
 
Muldoon has a nighthood, Lange doesn't. 'nuff said.
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Old 5th June 2017, 14:03     #73
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Why didn't Helen Clark offer him one? Oh yeah, she abolished them.
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Old 5th June 2017, 14:03     #74
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Cmon Lange was made ONZ, that's as big as you can get.
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Old 6th June 2017, 10:55     #75
blynk
 
Yeah, didn't HC only abolish the knighthoods. There were still equivalent honours.

IMO PMs should not get the honour, unless they are seen to have done something exceptional in their tenure.

And Julie Christie, I cant see why she got one.
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Old 6th June 2017, 12:22     #76
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Cmon Lange was made ONZ, that's as big as you can get.
Exactly. A knighthood is pretty much just a participation prize for a PM.
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Old 6th June 2017, 12:39     #77
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Ordinary membership in the Order of New Zealand is our highest honour, limited to 20 living people. Current former PMs among them are: Bolger (Nat), Moore (Lab), Clark (Lab). Lange (Lab) was one until his death.
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Old 6th June 2017, 16:19     #78
Lightspeed
 
Only Jenny Shipley and Geoffrey Palmer are missing from the list of living ex-PMs. Palmer is knighted, Shipley never won an election.

I'm guessing with his knighthood, Key wouldn't be offered this as well. Or vice versa.

Honour systems, eh?
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Old 6th June 2017, 22:46     #79
Caesar
 
https://thestandard.org.nz/arise-sir-john/
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Old 7th June 2017, 12:10     #80
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Shipley never won an election.
Then how did she end up in Parliament?
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