Random Politics

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by pxpx

Not like you to come across so condescending, Pixie, that's for us plebs to do.

You're the one using scientific data without any demonstrated understanding of the science. Since when were you on the side of the anti-vaxxers, pxpx? Or do you get to pick and choose what science to denigrate?

[pxpx]

Excuse me?

[Lightspeed]

I'm saying you ignore data you don't like, but still want to hold onto an ideal of scientific rationalism. It's a contradiction. We all have them, this appears to be one of yours.

[pxpx]

I'm not ignoring it - I just pointed out what I see as a flaw, or weakness in the way the data was captured. I don't know exactly how the research was carried out, I'm speculating that it was self-selected / optional survey sent to everyone in the DHB, and implying that only those with strong negative viewpoints would respond to such a survey.

Pixie corrected me, and I accepted that criticism, but as said, I stand by my point.

Don't lecture me on rationalism.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

It funny how the stats show one thing but experience is showing another.

Crime is down, but it appears that community mental health is worsening and youth violence is becoming endemic.

Health spending is up, but health care workers are being told to tighten their belts and work more efficiently, with services being closed or reduced left and right.

I would suggest that the government is juking the stats. Maybe spending that previously wasn't included now is. Or the figures are accurate the spending is focused on special interests rather than the general community.

But according to the loud voices NZ seems to have stumbled into a divine government, with the only problems of government falling upon the opposition.

Apparently I'm the one who ignores data I don't like.

LOL

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by pxpx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectionias

We've got the New Zealand Nurses Organisation saying under-funding is a nationwide problem, non-nursing public health workers set to strike, Treasury budget documents saying that DHBs are 'considerably' underfunded, the Safe Staffing Healthy Workplace report indicating serious problems - but don't worry that's all bias and everything's great.

Originally Posted by Juju

So please, tell me where the government is spending less on health?

Even with inflation and population adjustment the Govt. will be spending more. Some important considerations here are where any extra funding is going (ie used on what by who), has demand for health care increased and whether the cost of providing health care has changed. The situation atm in many DHBs is that they're not getting enough funding and it's creating a lot of problems. DHBs 'considerably' underfunded - and more deficits predicted

Originally Posted by pxpx

Looks like there was a sudden increase directly after the GFC, that's probably to be expected. Looks like a gradual decrease after 2012 to now, if you're looking at the trend. That slight increase in the last period is concerning - but if it's "CHANGE THE FUCKIN GOVERNMENT" concerning, then perhaps you need to take a deep breath.

If you read my post I didn't actually say I support a change in government based just on unemployment (which has been slowly increasing the past year with projections of 6.5 - 7 %)

Originally Posted by pxpx

Wait hang on, you're also saying the economy is "still not going anywhere"? So like, it's been all bad since Labour left?

Again, I didn't say it was all bad. I'm saying as economic managers their hands off approach has been pretty mediocre. As a small country we are largely shaped by what's going on globally but there are things the govt can to do put us in a better position for example redirect investment in housing.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by pxpx

Apparently I'm the one who ignores data I don't like.

What data am I ignoring? I stated the data I am aware of and wondered about where the contradiction is coming from.

Where as you refute and dismiss data you don't like, it surely being flawed in some way and thus no required to be included in discussion.

[pxpx]

Anyway, I don't disagree that there's a significant amount of dissatisfaction in the DHBs. I know for a fact that it's a highly dysfunctional organisation with in-fighting and crazy internal politics at all levels, worsend by an un-caring executive focussed on entirely the wrong things (a friend of mine was semi-recently employed by the Auckland DHB in a senior role with several hundred indirect reports).

Do I think Labours current bunch can fix it? Hell no.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Again, I didn't say it was all bad. I'm saying as economic managers their hands off approach has been pretty mediocre. As a small country we are largely shaped by what's going on globally but there are things the govt can to do put us in a better position for example redirect investment in housing.

thanks for clarifying

LS I cant change what you think. I pointed to what I thought was a weakness, run as far as you like with it.

[fixed_truth]

As a side note I think left vs right paradigms often create a false dichotomy that paints us all as political opposites on every issue. Which is probably a political strategy from political parties to get people to self identify with their team.

Maybe in the future we could have an online participatory democracy where we can vote on individual issues heh

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by pxpx

Do I think Labours current bunch can fix it? Hell no.

Labour might not be able to fix whatever problems exist, whether they be cynical funding models or poor management, however National aren't fixing them and appear to be exacerbating them from my biased view.

It's a good thing we don't have to rely on two parties any more and we can starting thinking past the National/Labour dichotomy.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by pxpx

LS I cant change what you think. I pointed to what I thought was a weakness, run as far as you like with it.

We could try have a discussion? It does get challenging when saying something is an automatic leap to something else. For example it seems a critique of government performance equates as support for Labour.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

As a small country we are largely shaped by what's going on globally but there are things the govt can to do put us in a better position for example redirect investment in housing.

Is a similar vein I think the government gets too much credit for employment rates, whichever way it swings. I think our level of employment says something about us as a population. If employment is low it's because we're motivated, engaged, etc. If it's high it's because we're depressed, disconnected, etc.

I mean, it is complex factors that feed into each other, but generally I think it's about us.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

As a small country we are largely shaped by what's going on globally but there are things the govt can to do put us in a better position for example redirect investment in housing.

But it's not the government's job to direct investment in housing. NZ doesn't have a housing crisis, some parts of Auckland have a housing crisis. Want to stop hearing about housing in Auckland? Get the city of Auckland to free up more land for houses, or allow higher-density CBD housing.

[fixed_truth]

That would be useful for the supply side of things. Though there seems to be a huge overseas demand for Auckland housing which would also need to be dealt with.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

That would be useful for the supply side of things. Though there seems to be a huge overseas demand for Auckland housing which would also need to be dealt with.

Aucklands geography makes it worse: http://transportblog.co.nz/2015/11/0...pply-dynamics/

[[Malks] Pixie]

Originally Posted by pxpx

Not like you to come across so condescending, Pixie, that's for us plebs to do.

Anyways, fair counter point but this kind of workplace survey is hardly going to be a bastion of quality data, so I stand by my point A self selected workplace surveys with such an abysmal response rate is unlikely to paint a reliable picture.

The face to face interviews are a different story and are likely to have their own bias (probably leaning more positive, than negative).

Well it seems my being condescending was well placed as you've come back with "counter points" that are all things which qualitative research methodologies already adjust/compensate for - but you would have known that if you'd bothered to actually bring yourself up to speed on the differences between qualitative / quantitative.

[blynk]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

As a side note I think left vs right paradigms often create a false dichotomy that paints us all as political opposites on every issue. Which is probably a political strategy from political parties to get people to self identify with their team.

Maybe in the future we could have an online participatory democracy where we can vote on individual issues heh

I agree.
Mention John Key, Bill English & Co and according to the left everything they say & do is wrong
Mention Andrew Little, Len Brown (Obama) and according to the right, everything they say & do is wrong

[blynk]

Originally Posted by Juju

Suffered huh.

Let's look at health spending the past few years, from the treasury department:

2015: 15b
2014: 14.8b
2013: 14.4b
2012: 14.1b
2011: 13.7b
2010: 13.1b
2009: 12.3b
2008: 11.2b


So please, tell me where the government is spending less on health?

Its interesting though. The government are saying they are spending more, front line staff are saying they are overworked etc.
So where is this extra money going. It must be going to the upper levels of the hierarchy.
Maybe there are a lot more compliance costs now, maybe there are an extra 100 executives earning 1m each, maybe its gone into more specialised areas that only a small few get the benefit from.
What every it is, its the front line staff that get impacted.

[Lightspeed]

Newsreaders and producers could go at Radio New Zealand

Of course there is no particular reason why RNZ should be exempt from cuts, given all the other public service reductions. But it's still painful.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by blynk

Its interesting though. The government are saying they are spending more, front line staff are saying they are overworked etc.
So where is this extra money going.

...speculation...

.

Clues may be found in the Ministry of Health Annual Reports.

e.g.

Supporting the Christchurch rebuild
In 2014/15, the Ministry continued to support Canterbury DHB on the hospital redevelopment programme through the Hospital Redevelopment Partnership Group. The following Ministry project management took place in 2014/15:
• Construction is under way on the $215 million Burwood Hospital redevelopment, which will be completed in early 2016.
• The enabling works for the $481 million acute services building commenced at Christchurch Hospital, with the detailed design finalised, leading to procurement of the main construction contractor.
• Design work commenced for an outpatients’ facility.

Source: http://www.health.govt.nz/system/fil...lth-oct15.docx

[Ab]

” I’ve spent a lot of time chasing the winter – travelling across the world to get the best snow and another season of snowboarding in. It’s great being a New Zealander travelling. People overseas love our country and they love us. We have a reputation as hard working, good people, who like to have fun.

But the government are harming our reputation with their lack of action on climate change. I believe we need a climate plan New Zealand can be proud of.

And that’s why I’ll be marching with the Green Party bloc at the People’s Climate March at the end of this month. Put your name down too.

On the global stage, experts have called our target “inadequate”. That’s just a pretty polite way to say that it really sucks.

We’ve got a chance in just a few weeks to stand up, with people all over the world, and say that we want real action to protect the things we love, including New Zealand’s reputation. We can create a good future for everyone, if we take this chance.

Sign up for the Green bloc at the People’s Climate March, in towns all over New Zealand on the weekend of the 28th of November.

RSVP today to show you’ll be there.

Let’s do this.

Hayley Holt

Snowboarder, Ballroom Dancer and TV Presenter”

[pxpx]

Ah shit you know what, this time of year the lawns just grow so fast.

[CCS]

I like Hayley Holt. She's hot, seems down to earth and reasonably funny for a chick.

But I won't be signing up for no Green rally.

[fixed_truth]

The whole package!

Meanwhile lolz @Bill's latest denials

[Lightspeed]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11550677

Academics sourcing crime data from police are forced to sign a contract giving officers the power to "improve" research which shows "negative results" and then "veto" its publication.

[Lightspeed]

Maybe the police are willing to accept some unflattering statistics after all:
Police admit 'unconscious bias' on Maori

I wonder if this is to do with the support from the Maori Party that National relies on. Good on the Maori Party if so.

[fixed_truth]

Oh fuck yeah, NZ is better than most countries, but most people are still prejudice towards dark skin people.

[Ab]

Fuck man, NZ is a colourblind post-racial paradise looking in from the outside.

[Lightspeed]

This talk of Belgium being a failed state is totally lolz.

The media are like a bunch of school kids. You let one fart slip at the wrong time and all of a sudden everyone is talking about how you shit your pants.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Fuck man, NZ is a colourblind post-racial paradise looking in from the outside.

Yeah, it's decent. I think Devoy is right however, it's not something we can sit back and relax about.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Susan Devoy

The ironic thing about people who send me letters about how useless I am and that our race relations are OK, is that most of them are from Pakeha men

Heh, great attempt at winning the hearts and minds of the very people you need to sway Susan. Good job.

[Lightspeed]

Yeah, that's not a group to be easily swayed by inconvenient truths, is it?

[fixed_truth]

How does she know they are pakeha? Do their last names sound pakeha? That's racist!?!!

[Lightspeed]

lolz, oh snap!

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Yeah, that's not a group to be easily swayed by inconvenient truths, is it?

Exactly.

[Lightspeed]

Hahah, I guess Devoy sees her role as the teller of such truths, leaving it to others to sway hearts and minds.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by Ab

reposted without comment

The comment would be something like: "Because, you know, flying around the world all the time just so you can get more winter is such a good way of reducing your carbon footprint..."?

[Delphinus]

Originally Posted by Nothing

The comment would be something like: "Because, you know, flying around the world all the time just so you can get more winter is such a good way of reducing your carbon footprint..."?

If we all had to wait until we were perfect before we could suggest that we could all do better, then we'd never get anywhere.

[Lightspeed]

This gave me shivers...

Collins to return as Corrections Minister