General Australian Politics

[Cyberbob]

What are the No voters talking points?

Obviously this has been put forward in collaboration with those that the initiative seeks to represent, and is in no way virtue signaling from a group of middle aged white folk?

[_Incubus_]

Honestly the most prevalent No ads are being fronted by Warren Mundine, and Jacinta Price.

The main messaging is that creating a racial division in the constitution isn't the solution.

Also quite cleverly getting aboriginal people saying that we are all Australians, dividing the country isn't what they want.

I think on the Yes side there's a total lack of detail, and people just don't trust govt anymore.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

What are the No voters talking points?

Obviously this has been put forward in collaboration with those that the initiative seeks to represent, and is in no way virtue signaling from a group of middle aged white folk?

1. Australians will lose ownership of homes
Variations of this claim include: Australians will be forced to pay reparations or the voice will increase taxes (ie, the voice will cost you money)

2. The voice is legally risky
Variations of this include claims that the voice is a third chamber of parliament, will dictate laws to the government, or will destabilise democracy

3. The voice will divide the nation

4. The voice will force treaties

5. There are no details
Variations of this claim include: you don’t know what you’re voting for and the voice is a Trojan horse for ‘secret agendas’

6. The voice will allow the UN to take over Australia

7. The Australian Electoral Commission will tamper with your votes

details

[_Incubus_]

Resounding No vote, shows watercooler talk wasn't what people actually voted.

Thought Jacinda Price spoke well, basically telling the activist lefties that live in teal electorates to wake up.

[Ab]

The activist lefties only listen to other activist lefties, hence why total failure in the referendum. They won't acknowledge that though.

[Ab]

The song remains the same: boomers gonna boom

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-...-qld/103576718

[xor]

How many are boomer aussies vs recent aussies with overseas money?

[Lightspeed]

Australians are having fewer babies – experts say it could have more consequences than we realise

In short: Recent data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics has revealed Australians are experiencing a near-record low fertility rate.

The data found Australians are likely to have an average of 1.6 babies over the next five years, below the international average of 2.3.

Is the sentiment in Australia similar to New Zealand? Babies are for those who can afford them?

[Ab]

Thoughts:

I live in a comfortable middle-class bubble and I already bit the bullet and have already had kids, so wtf do I know.

Also, yes.

Also, who gives a fuck what international average baby numbers are? Western nations can't compare their own birthrates with places like Niger and Somalia. The question isn't how do we (AU or NZ) compare with somewhere else, the question is what birthrates do our economies require to maintain our standards of living?, or if a comparison is mandatory, how do the current birthrates compare with the birthrates when the laws and workplace practices that define our society were put in place?

Also, last time I looked men don't have babies. So the problems become a lot more clear if you rephrase the statement as

Australian women are likely to have an average of 1.6 babies over the next five years, below the international average of 2.3.

What is it about Australian society in the year of our lord 2024 that is stopping women from having babies?

See also: in Australia, women are the majority of university enrolments and graduations in almost every field of study except engineering and IT.

[xor]

Originally Posted by Ab

What is it about Australian society in the year of our lord 2024 that is stopping women from having babies?

Money & Time.

Lack of money due to the insane cost of living.
Lack of time if one was to have a baby. As you'd have to go back to work and outsource the care of your child to a glorified cattery that is known as 'childcare'

[Ab]

Insane cost of living means needing a good income.

Good income means getting a good job.

Getting a good job means getting a degree.

Getting a degree means putting babies on hold.

Then you get the degree and get on the job ladder, and continuing on the ladder means not having babies.

When you do achieve the comfort level required to have babies, you're now too old to have more than one or two.

[StN]

There might be a movie script idea in that...

[Ab]

"How do we make women have more babies" is, without even thinking hard,

Idiocracy
Children of Men
Blade Runner 2049
Fallout
The Handmaid's Tale

[xor]

I recall something Ab posted about at least 10-12 years ago during an NZ election: "What will politicians do to drop the house price by 50%?". It was the context of spiraling house prices compared with salaries.

It's gotten compoundly worse despite numerous labor govts on both sides of the Tasman.

#aroha

[Lightspeed]

When was the last time any Western government wasn't a neolib government?

There's no "them" to blame here, it's only us.

[xor]

^^this guy loves socialism/communism

[StN]

Originally Posted by Ab

Idiocracy

At least it had a spin off colon cancer awareness benefit.

[Cyberbob]

What does the (child under 18):(tax paying citizen):(retired pensioner) ratio have to be before people start to get concerned?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Insane cost of living means needing a good income.

Good income means getting a good job.

Getting a good job means getting a degree.

Getting a degree means putting babies on hold.

That's only a small subset of the population. The larger portion has the same living cost pressures, however they're much more acute, the best option for keeping your head above water is working to exhaustion.

Educated enough to use birth control, but not so much that you might start "questioning the material".

[Lightspeed]

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has been asked not to make ’unhelpful’ references to New Zealand in his overseas speeches

Luxon struggling to drop the "Labour's mess" mantra.

Using language like “under new management” and “open for business” was not helpful, he said.

Overseas relationships had been built over time by a series of people who should be acknowledged.

“New Zealand has never been closed for business,” he said.

Edit: Shit, wrong thread.

[blynk]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

What does the (child under 18)tax paying citizen)retired pensioner) ratio have to be before people start to get concerned?

I guess there are 2 ratios here. One will have impact on the other.

1 - a ratio relating to tax, what we can afford, how do we pay for things etc.
2 - a ratio relating to voting, because as the ratio skews to the right, then thats going to fuck up number one even more.
***Oh, but they paid taxes all their lives so they should be able to get whatever they want