National Thus Far

[xor]

Originally Posted by Ab

I hope Ross has a new job already lined up because he’s now a married man with 2 dependents in Auckland with no qualifications and no work experience.

Sends a pretty big msg to any other politicians that you're gonna get got when you go against the boss too.

[Ab]

If Ross has been under investigation as a serial rooter/harrasser for a year, that means he's probably been collecting "insurance" for a year, preparing for the day when he got hauled before the boss and ensuring that when that happened he could suggest to the boss that it was in the boss's best interests for this to all go away quickly.

[Ab]

jesus, this is awful

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/1...omen-speak-out

[fixed_truth]

But for now, a word about the Politics of what we’re seeing here. I don’t mean “politics” in the sense of partisan battles over policy, or what will happen in the polls, or the like. For, as Bryce Edwards has so rightly noted, this whole saga is ultimately empty; “the meltdown has been about personalities, leadership and ambition.”

And the way this small-stakes, nothing-of-real-significance battle is being waged is harmful for our (capital P) Politics, in the sense of how we as a community collectively govern ourselves and decide what we ought to do as a nation.

The raising of serious accusations that, upon closer inspection, seem to turn out to be far less than promised; only to then be replaced by a new set of accusations. The recording of conversations to get “dirt” that can be used at a later, unspecified date. The slow, drip-feeding of information designed to keep the story running rather than establish what actually has occurred. All of these are designed to do nothing more than visit personal destruction on a political enemy.

While there’s a certain irony in the National Party now being roiled by the tactics of some it held far too close for far too long, this episode ultimately is bad for us as a country. It’s not what our Politics, or our politics, should be. There is nothing to be won (and a whole lot to be lost) through it but the office and egos of small and petty personalities.

Andrew Geddis

[StN]

Originally Posted by Ab

If Ross has been under investigation as a serial rooter/harrasser for a year, that means he's probably been collecting "insurance" for a year, preparing for the day when he got hauled before the boss and ensuring that when that happened he could suggest to the boss that it was in the boss's best interests for this to all go away quickly.

[StN]

Time for a sweepstake?

[fixed_truth]

National need to suck it in and use the waka jumping Bill. Looking like hypocrites but Ross fading into obscurity it better than shit being dragged on for years.

[The Edge]

Ironically, the MP whom Bridges described as "f----g useless", is, well, pretty much that. She hasn't really done anything for the Coast.

Also (and this is just my personal opinion) is if Mr Ross decides to run as an independent in his electorate, I don't think he has a hope of winning. People will remember what he did to the National Party...but they may not vote National either.

[StN]

In the Vietnam War, the average age of a US combat soldier was 19.

[Ab]

Bahaha Ross has had “a change of heart” and is NOT resigning, presumably so he can keep running Operation Burn This Motherfucker Down with the protection of absolute parliamentary privilege.

[Lightspeed]

I assume even the Greens have these kind of messes going on. But my biases tell me National takes this door to the next level, given the power-over nature of their politics.

It's at least part of why life has gone to hell for so many NZers.

[Lightspeed]

-door. Posting from mobile is brutal. I should get a tablet someday soon.

So this is all ultimately good for National right? Someone I know close to Northland politics said other National MPs are having a great time watching shit burn. It's all good opportunities for them.

It could be this bogs National down for awhile. But so they lose the next, election, were they going to win it in any case? By the following election this will barely rate.

But we're pretty used to eating shit right now, they could spring right back with some "cleaned house" perception.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by StN

In the Vietnam War, the average age of a US combat soldier was 19.

So Mr Hardcastle tells us

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I assume even the Greens have these kind of messes going on. But my biases tell me National takes this door to the next level, given the power-over nature of their politics.

It's at least part of why life has gone to hell for so many NZers.

Danylmc checks in with typically insightful commentary:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/20...jami-lee-ross/

[StN]

They’ve come and taken him away ha ha he he ho hum.

[StN]

I wonder what was on the brink of being disclosed.

[Ab]

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/po...l-health-care/

Pretty sure that removes him from parliament- no need to pull the pin on a wakajumping action.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Danylmc checks in with typically insightful commentary:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/20...jami-lee-ross/

And, finally, Ross has shone a light on the influence of China on New Zealand politics, especially in the projection of the rising super-power’s soft power in the region. During last year’s election campaign it was revealed that one of National’s current list MPs – Jian Yang – had extensive undisclosed links to Chinese intelligence. If that story had come out during the 20th century it would have been the largest political scandal of the decade, the instant end of that politician’s career, a disaster for National. Today it’s just a weird thing that happened and everyone mostly forgets about, and which Yang still politely refuses to discuss with the media. The Cold War is over. Nationalism is declining, at least among our business and political class who enjoy dual citizenship as both New Zealanders and members of the trans-national elite. Now we’re all happy consumers in one big global economy. The leaders of our right-wing political party have dinner with the Chinese Communist Party’s envoys in New Zealand and prefer that they bring the wine because theirs is better.

It's great nationalism is declining, it's just a shame it comes with this cloak & dagger international influence. Or is this just one path of post-nationalism that these particular people took us on? More transparent relationships can't be impossible or fruitless, can they?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/po...l-health-care/

Pretty sure that removes him from parliament- no need to pull the pin on a wakajumping action.

I think Seymour is right. The police need to publicly and quickly explain exactly what kind of custody Ross is under, and under what authority.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I think Seymour is right. The police need to publicly and quickly explain exactly what kind of custody Ross is under, and under what authority.

Agreed 100%

[crocos]

I like the idea of the cops making a statement, but there's a privacy issue here too - they may not be ALLOWED to make a statement without explicit consent from JLR or someone holding a Right of Attorney over medical matters on his behalf.

[fixed_truth]

Some good points here, I really hope some hard lessons will be learnt from all this.

It has not been a good week for the National Party. It has revealed a craven history of enabling alleged harassment and bullying, making it unfit for governing.

If you come out stronger when it's revealed that a key member of your senior team is accused of repeated harassment and your party covered it up and then promoted him after the events occurred then I think we need to take a look at the culture of the organisation.

The accusations of bullying and harassment were brought to the attention of the top-brass of the National Party. And what did they do with that information? Did they get rid of the alleged abuser and make sure he wouldn't be in a position of authority so he couldn't do it anymore? Did they get him support or help if he needed it? No. They allegedly made the complainant sign a non-disclosure agreement so they wouldn't be able to go public. Then Ross was allowed to be re-selected for his Botany Electorate Seat. Then he was promoted to the front bench after Bridges became leader.

David Cormack: National needs to learn to care about people

[Ab]

Originally Posted by crocos

I like the idea of the cops making a statement, but there's a privacy issue here too - they may not be ALLOWED to make a statement without explicit consent from JLR or someone holding a Right of Attorney over medical matters on his behalf.

He is now being supported by a small group of friends including political consultant Simon Lusk and right wing blogger Cameron Slater, aka Whaleoil, it is understood.

What could possibly go wrong

[crocos]

Originally Posted by Ab

What could possibly go wrong

I don't get it: Are you saying they'll advise JLR to instruct the cops to make a press-release? Or won't? And if not something like that, then what ARE you talking about?

But yes, that bunch of nupties have been influential in worsening many of this country's biggest political fuckups.

[Lightspeed]

Maybe the whole mental health thing is some people deciding someone who would reveal secrets about them is surely a crazy person?

I mean what kind of support could Cameron Slater offer? Is he helping Ross keep his mouth shut?

[Ab]

If you involve dramaqueen parasites like Lusk and Slater, everything will get worse in every possible way.

[Lightspeed]

The anonymous text is concerning. I wonder if someone who didn't have Ross's interests in mind sent it. With that and Bridge's "embarrassing" dig, there's been some staging to set up the idea of Ross being sectioned in the public eye.

Slater seems more enforcer than supporter. Lusk doesn't sound particularly warm either.

[Ab]

Anonymous text?

[Lightspeed]

The one asking for the end of the investigation into Bridges' expenses leak, for the sake of the mental health of the leaker.

I think the assumption is that Ross sent it. Which may well be the case. Or it could have been someone else, trying to paint the leaker as a crazy person.

[Lightspeed]

The timing of Labour weekend is certainly convenient. Gives Slater plenty of time to work Ross over before the whole business is put under serious scrutiny.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

it could have been someone else, trying to paint the leaker as a crazy person

I LIKE YOUR BRAND OF PARANOIA

[pxpx]

Would be great if this whole thing took Slater down too!

[fixed_truth]

Slater is implying that National were the ones who pushed him into care behind his wife's back. I hope he's full of shit as usual.

[Juju]

Sectioning is a Health action, not a Police one. Police are only involved as it requires physically removing someone.

Why are people asking for the Police to comment?

[Lightspeed]

Because of shoddy reporting. Right now it seems it's still not known what the circumstances for Ross actually are.

Speaker of the House seeks advice on Jami-Lee Ross situation

Speaker Trevor Mallard has to be notified if an MP is admitted to an institution either by compulsory treatment or inpatient order.

As of yesterday afternoon there had been no such notification.

[Ab]

The clickwhoring media channels are not helping at all.

[Lightspeed]

It's mostly the NZH citing "friends". Everyone else citing "the media". It was a bit of a compromise to check for myself. Apparently he's in Middlemore right now. But I'm not sure if Middlemore has confirmed this, or if this is still the word of friends. I'm not looking again.

On balance I suspect this is more a genuine struggle for Ross, than a conspiracy between people to shut him down. But I don't know that. Which is worrying.

Mental health systems and power systems together is icky and scary. I get Ross has privacy rights, but his privacy can be publicly protected while senior public officials can provide assurances of the safety of the member as well as appropriate handling of power and that those with an agenda aren't in positions of undue influence.

[pxpx]

Pwning yourself so hard that you get committed really sucks.

[blynk]

Especially when you need to rely on a service that your government screwed over for several years.

[Lightspeed]

The whole situation still stinks. Mental health diagnoses aren't like a typical medical diagnosis. What's unusual behaviour for one person is a normal day for another. Often a breakdown is the consequence of a healthy person being unable to deal with unhealthy circumstances. People can be pushed over the edge, stories can be spun to busy doctors and an ignorant public.

Bridges seeming confident his problems are over only adds to the chill.