Charter schools trial

[[WanG] Wandarah]

Originally Posted by CCS

I spent most of my first year or so of school in Australia. We came back to NZ and when I was about seven years old it was decided that my reading level wasn't where it should be for my age. Perhaps that was because the Aussies were shit teachers, perhaps I just wasn't paying attention... whatever. I was made to have one-on-one levels with this teacher I didn't like a whole lot, reading little kids books, having individual words written on cards and arranging them into sentences, bring that stuff home and going through it with my impatient father and doing it all again. I really disliked doing it but by the end of it I'd reached the right reading level and quite enjoyed reading after that. My level of English was probably a bit higher that other kids in my class since then.

My Mother does this for a living. 'Reading Recovery' Teachers, they're called.

While, perhaps, the 'each child learns at their own pace!' argument is so simplistic as to be discarded, it's certainly true that each child has a bunch of factors that affect their learning - not just natural aptitude, which can present in a variety of ways - but also, obviously, home, friends, family and environment.

She believes strict adherence to 'National Standards', while it can alert teachers to struggles a child may be having (there were other, and always have been, mechanisms to identify these things before National Standards ever came along) - the issue really is that 'National Standards' is not intended as such a tool. It is intended as a very, very, strict form of measurement - that does not take into account the potential of a child, or the ways in which they may be encouraged to learn.

The tasks for identifying such often fall to small groups of highly dedicated, under-resourced individuals - who exist, at least in part, because of the frailties of the system which you appear to be championing here - and the acknowledgement of such by those who implement these standards.

In short, 'national standards' doesn't result in the experience you had. There have always been mechanisms in place to assist those children who are falling behind. All 'national standards' is, is an easier way of collating results - it does very little in regards to assist learning, in fact it frequently hampers it (initially).

[[WanG] Wandarah]

Because I missed my edit window:

"The tasks for identifying such often fall to small groups of highly dedicated, under-resourced individuals - who exist, at least in part, because of the frailties of the system which you appear to be championing here - and the acknowledgement of such by those who implement these standards.

In short, 'national standards' doesn't result in the experience you had. There have always been mechanisms in place to assist those children who are falling behind. All 'national standards' is, is an easier way of collating results, it's very easy for those who truly care about their profession in education to identify individuals who are having trouble learning, without using 'National Standards' as a tool to do so. 'National Standards' does little in regards to assist learning, in fact it frequently hampers it (initially).

In shorter, it's much ado about fuck all. "

[[WanG] Wandarah]

The implication is of course, that poor teachers (of which there are relatively few) are also rarely called into question because of a standard which no one in the education sector really takes seriously.

Like many sectors or industries where there are a higher proportion of people who 'really give a fuck', it is often self-regulating.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by CCS

There's a lot of kids these days that just don't have good literacy. The go through our education system and are still barely literate at the end of it. This is in the news headlines at the moment. I believe this is the bullshit 'learning at their own pace' argument in effect. I also think that if you don't take kids aside and sort out their learning, then that really is a one size fits all approach.

This is exactly the battle that my father goes through year after year. He has kids come into his English classes in form 3/4/5 who can barely read their way through a sentence. Dad voluntarily runs extra classes at intervals, lunch times and after school ... but very, very few kids are interested, and their parents are the same. Something like 1 out of 8 kids who is offered the extra classes bothers to show up. Thanks to NCEA, these kids will still "pass" their year, and eventually leave school - IF they last as long as 5th form (or whatever the equivalent "year" is these days).

[Ab]

Give that man a beer.

[fixed_truth]

wang bringing the knowledge

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by [WanG] Wandarah

that poor teachers (of which there are relatively few)

Given there is little measurement of teacher performance there are few consequences for poor performance. In alternative roles outside of State employment where teachers might be useful there is measurement and there are brutal consequences for poor performance.

This labour sanctioned safe-haven of incompetence means that low caliber teachers stay in the profession since there is nowhere else for them to go. This in turn means that right now there are far too many incompetent teachers out there.

The romantic idea that all teachers are great and out for the good of our children is a fantasy. Sure there are huge numbers that are exactly like this, but there are far too many who aren't.

Measurement followed by consequences will correct this silliness.

The measurement is coming, the consequences will follow along with strike action and other tantrum throwing activity.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Savage

Dad voluntarily runs extra classes at intervals, lunch times and after school

This is epic; I struggled with Maths in 3rd form (because my intermediate school had a horribly substandard maths curriculum) but in 4th form I had a fantastic teacher who ran extra classes focussing on specific things people were having trouble with; I ended up doing School C maths in that year too.

[[WanG] Wandarah]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Given there is little measurement of teacher performance there are few consequences for poor performance.

Robust Teacher assessments have been in place, well, forever - nothing is 'coming' that will result in significant change there. The primary tool that assists in weeding out bad teachers, will remain peer-review and reporting.

Regardless, more importantly this is not the same as someone buying a shiny new ruler, to make a better house. This is more a case of ignoring the fact that rain is pissing in through gaping holes in the roof and trying to plug them with a shiny new ruler.

Though I can understand the second part of your sentence.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Savage

This is exactly the battle that my father goes through year after year. He has kids come into his English classes in form 3/4/5 who can barely read their way through a sentence. Dad voluntarily runs extra classes at intervals, lunch times and after school ... but very, very few kids are interested, and their parents are the same. Something like 1 out of 8 kids who is offered the extra classes bothers to show up. Thanks to NCEA, these kids will still "pass" their year, and eventually leave school - IF they last as long as 5th form (or whatever the equivalent "year" is these days).

Your dad needs a mean pay raise.

[chubby]

mebbe (like for higher wages commision type gigs), if you payed more you'd get higher quality staff?

[cyc]

Chubby, if you had received a better education you would realise that "Payed" isn't a word in English.

[DrTiTus]

It is, actually - it just doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

Originally Posted by Apple Dictionary

verb ( past and past part. payed) [ trans. ] Nautical
seal (the deck or hull seams of a wooden ship) with pitch or tar to prevent leakage.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by CCS

Your dad needs a mean pay raise.

Since teachers insist that they are all the same and use their union to hold their employer to ransom on this point, it follows that this person will get exactly a "mean" increase.

[[WanG] Wandarah]

Oh dear.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Since teachers insist that they are all the same and use their union to hold their employer to ransom on this point, it follows that this person will get exactly a "mean" increase.

Lols!

[chubby]

Originally Posted by cyc

Chubby, if you had received a better education you would realise that "Payed" isn't a word in English.

i know you are,
you said you are,
but what am i?

[cyc]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

It is, actually - it just doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

Haha okay. Fair enough

[Lightspeed]

If only you had a better education, you might have known...

[DrTiTus]

Bro... Lightspeed says you're dumb

[Lightspeed]

Not dumb, a hypocrite. Or perhaps intellectually dishonest? lols.

[xor]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

Bro... Lightspeed says you're dumb

Galbraiths!

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Not dumb, a hypocrite. Or perhaps intellectually dishonest? lols.

Hey Lightspeed, have you found enough balls to tell people what you're actually studying yet?

[madmaxii]

The teachings of L Ron Hubbard?

[cyc]

haha!

Noice.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by cyc

Hey Lightspeed, have you found enough balls to tell people what you're actually studying yet?

Oh geez, the... count? of my balls is on the line.

Plenty of people know the personal details of my life. You know, my friends.

[[WanG] Wandarah]

Both those guys don't use NZG though - spill already!

[xor]

Lolspeed is doing a masters in Psychotherapy apparently.

[Cyberbob]

What ever happened to schools being exactly what it says on the door. It's a certain grade. you must pass that grade to go onto the next one.

None of this "do as good as you can this year, then its off to the higher level next year"

If you're not passing this level, what makes you think you'll do better at a higher level?

[Torka]

do they actually administer end of year tests/exams to little kids in primary school though? they didn't when I went to school in the eighties, that was strictly a high school thing

[Golden Teapot]

They test each six months aligned to the date of starting school rather than to the calendar year.

[adonis]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...s-for-children

South Auckland children might attend Brian Tamaki College or Enough is Enough Intermediate, though I'd advise against sending your gay son there

There are a great many problems with our society that are best solved with SCIENCE... this is one of them.

[Draco T Bastard]

A Nation's Education Left Behind
by Diane Ravitch

My theme for today: Whose children have been left behind?

Let me tell you a little bit about myself. For many years, I was a strong advocate of testing, accountability, and choice. I worked in three conservative think tanks where these ideas were held sacred. In 1998, I went to Albany, New York, to testify on behalf of charter legislation. At the time I was connected to the conservative Manhattan Institute. I thought that testing would help diagnose the problems that children had and enable teachers to identify their needs. I thought that charters would enroll the kids who had failed in regular public schools or who were not well served by regular public schools. I thought that charters would collaborate with the public schools.

In a book published last year, I said that I was wrong. I was wrong on every count. Testing should be used for diagnostic purposes, to help students and teachers, but it has turned into a blunt instrument that is used to reward and punish teachers and schools

NAct - destroying our children's future for profit.