Where to now for Labour?

[CCS]

Lolspeed would have loved Soviet Russia.

"For the good of the people, comrade."

[Lightspeed]

No, you see, because that's another place where one story was told, but a different outcome took place. The leaders of the time said they were leaders of the people. But really they were enrichers of themselves. And we saw how well that went.

Which is why the mind boggles when Michael Savage leadership can be in any way compared to John Key's. Because on one hand we've got a shining example of a robust, practical welfare state, on the other hand we've got this kind of bullshit:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/region...-crisis-centre

[Ab]

If I could distill the Labour Party’s woes over the last six years into just two words, I’d probably choose ‘bewildering stupidity’. The causes are manifold and complex, but the symptom is that Labour and its leaders often do bewildering, obviously stupid things despite the fact the things they are doing are obviously stupid. Think about David Shearer holding up dead fish in Parliament as his poll ratings flat-lined, or Goff dying his hair orange the day before making a major speech, or Cunliffe railing against secret trusts while financing his leadership campaign through secret trusts . . . The list is very, very long. And today:

Labour leader Andrew Little has hurriedly paid an overdue bill but apparently only after the Government used it to embarrass him in Parliament.

Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce attacked Little over his stance on employment law changes after revealing Little had not settled his bill with National Business Review columnist David Cohen.

Writing in the NBR last week Cohen confirmed he did paid work for Little to help him secure the Labour leadership but four months later was still waiting for the cheque.

It seems obvious (to me) that hiring a right-wing columnist to do your PR while you campaign for the leadership of a left-wing political party could go wrong in all sorts of ways. Being a former unionist Little has contrived for it to go wrong in a way that makes him look like a total hypocrite, by not paying Cohen, which gave Cohen ammunition for a column in the NBR and Stephen Joyce a way to mock the new Labour leader in Parliament and embarrass him on the evening news. I mean, doesn’t the former boss of the EPMU have an old and trusted ally to help him with his PR? Apparently not, but why not?

Sure, this isn’t as egregious as National’s Sky City deal, or sending our troops to Iraq so we can stay ‘part of the club’. But Key, Joyce et al have reasons for the questionable stuff they do. They have agendas. It’s deliberate; calculated. They have reasons! Labour just does random bewilderingly stupid shit for no comprehensible reason. All the time. People write columns about how Labour should ‘move to the center’, or the left or whatever, but addressing the bewildering stupidity issue should be their primary goal.

https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/0...s-it-ever-was/

[CCS]

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/little...ker-2015021718

Mr Little has made his name fighting for workers' rights. But now he's been caught out and exposed for not paying someone who worked for him.
~
The ordeal is a pretty simple reminder for the Labour leader: if you are going to fight for workers' rights, pay the bills of people who work for you.

*snigger*

[Ab]

See all my previous rants about how there's a sanity filter in Labour. No-one ever says "hey, would this be a good or a bad look?" before the stupid thing gets done. So it gets done.

[fixed_truth]

lols at Gowers shit-stiring. I doubt Little would have even know of the outstanding bill and will be pretty pissed about it.

What I was being asked to provide was not media advice or training, after all, but to take out a few hours to talk with Mr Little and then independently distill his views as they might sound to an outsider.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/my-time-andrew

Had there not been the clerical fuck-up, there probably wouldn't be a problem.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

I doubt Little would have even know of the outstanding bill and will be pretty pissed about it.

So what are you suggesting? That someone in Little's office knew about it but didn't tell the Leader? Surely if Little's office knew, then Little knew, right?

[fixed_truth]

We're talking about an invoice; not one of his MPs being investigated for the type of assault that WO calls 'too horrible for words'.

[CCS]

Huh? Oh, I didn't say anything about assault.

[Ab]

Cohen is a very rightwing columnist for the National Business Review who has made no secret of the fact that he thinks Labour are rubbish.

Is contracting this guy, out of all the writers in the whole world, to assist with public relations for the Leader of the Labour Party a) clever, or b) stupid?

Knowing that he is a rightwing columnist for the NBR who already hates you, is failing to pay him for his work a) clever, or b) stupid?

Knowing that Cohen had not been paid, was allowing the new Leader of the Labour Party to get skewered by Steven Joyce about it in Parliament a) clever, or b) stupid?

Sure, this isn’t as egregious as National’s Sky City deal, or sending our troops to Iraq so we can stay ‘part of the club’. But Key, Joyce et al have reasons for the questionable stuff they do. They have agendas. It’s deliberate; calculated. They have reasons! Labour just does random bewilderingly stupid shit for no comprehensible reason. All the time.

[fixed_truth]

Yep not paying is stupid. And yes, this gave the Govt. ammo.

But I'm not convinced that had the flunkys done their job and sorted the bill, then Cohen's 'My Time With Andrew column' (if he still would have done one) would have been something more that it's usual meh.

I can see why Little's team was looking for an outsiders perspective, but yeah I don't know who else was on the short-list and why they specifically decided on Cohen.

[StN]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

lols at Gowers shit-stiring. I doubt Little would have even know of the outstanding bill and will be pretty pissed about it.

That must be why he paid it with his marital joint account.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

I doubt Little would have even know of the outstanding bill and will be pretty pissed about it.

Turns out he was told in January. Said so himself on One News.

His response, when told, should have been "For fuck's sake, pay it right away! We can't let anyone find out that I've been colluding with a right wing journalist!"

[Lightspeed]

Another abuse of... oh, wait, no, just a fucking invoice.

[Ab]

Regular as clockwork. You knew it was going to happen. Govt looking shaky on something, media finally starting to ask questions, and along comes the cavalry. Labour does something organisationally retarded that can be blown up into a smokescreen and next thing you know nobody can remember what it was the Govt was doing.

[Lightspeed]

You're right, National are continuing to demonstrate they're slimy, abusive cunts, able to effectively inflate typical, expected administrative error into something of significance, to deflect from their own failings and abuses.

[Ab]

You say slimy, I say competent.

[crocos]

Originally Posted by Ab

You say slimy, I say competent.

Who says they're not both?

[CCS]

"Andrew Little hasn't set a foot wrong in his first 5 days as leader! This guy could really be the one to take the fight to National! Eight weeks in and he hasn't made any mistakes, chahoo! Four months and Andrew Little... uhhh... can't even sort out an invoice so probably couldn't manage the running of a nation."

Aw sheeeit.

[Ab]

As danylmc commented on that blog post of his, the problem is that Little's message du jour is that Labour is right behind small business and understands the challenges faced by small business owners. You know the biggest challenge faced by small business owners? CUNTS NOT PAYING FUCKING INVOICES.

So this issue is both trivial and disastrous. Labour's new message just went out the window. One unpaid bill, to a guy who buys ink by the barrel, and who hated you anyway so why the fuck hire him in the first place. So easily avoided.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Ab

So easily avoided.

Ahahahaha Matt McCarten, genious

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/emails...aid-2015021818

[Farmer Joe]

I couldn't give a flying fuck about Labour but this isn't even news worthy... OMG an invoice wasn't paid! Big fucking deal.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Farmer Joe

I couldn't give a flying fuck about Labour but this isn't even news worthy... OMG an invoice wasn't paid! Big fucking deal.

It might be a big meh to people with no integrity, appreciation of how the real world works, and basic understanding of people's moral rights -- which probably fits both you and fixed_shit like a glove. But for normal people, getting someone to do a job for you and knowingly stiffing them for payments for months just isn't on. I for one have come close to dismissing (and have given a final warning) to someone who reports to me that repeatedly failed to pay invoices rendered by people who did work for my employer on time. And this guy was, as a result of a fair and balanced investigation conducted by other people, merely LAZY. He wasn't repeatedly told that our company owed people money, like Little and his lackeys were. Little has already admitted that he knew the guy wasn't paid by January and only paid up on Tuesday and then there are his lackeys' conduct.

And before anyone screams "fucking right wing nutjob", I abstained last election and will never vote for National whilst Judith Collins and Ann Tolley are remotely connected to it. But it's really nice of Andrew Littlecunt to confirm for me that I need not bother consider voting for him and Labour either.

Shame, Andrew.

[Ab]

00:50 in the video on this page:

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/emails...#axzz3S8FoNpH7

Witness Andrew Little, former general counsel and national secretary of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, get pissy at media:

"Your commentary talked about a worker. He was a contractor."

Ahh, the worker/contractor distinction, that linguistic trick favoured by bosses worldwide as the justification for fucking people over for work they've done.

Fuck you, you hypocritical piece of shit.

[CCS]

Hey man, it's just an invoice. It doesn't represent anything more than that!

[Ab]

This sand is a matter close to my own vagina.

http://www.nzgames.com/forums/showth...44#post1987144

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Another abuse of... oh, wait, no, just a fucking invoice.

as someone who has had to deal with people just "not paying" in the past, fuck little. also 4 months? dafuq? that level of incompetence is just bewildering. face to palm right hurr

[cyc]

Remember who made the comment. It's Lightspeed. The guy has a platinum membership card as the most delusional and despicable type of extreme left moron: one standard for people he likes and another standard for everyone else.

[Lightspeed]

Ah, I see I still feature strongly in your fantasy life, cyc. lolz.

[cyc]

LOLspeed: calling you out as scum doesn't involve any kind of fantasy. That you're a putrid piece of intellectually dishonest filth is abundantly obvious to anyone who's been reading this forum.

[Lightspeed]

I'm eager for you to point out my contradictions, I think I have them just like anyone else.

But calling me names isn't the same as calling me out, is it?

[Ab]

Labour MP Carmel Sepuloni has been stood down from her position as social development spokesperson after her mother was charged with several counts of benefit fraud.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11407862

[blynk]

Isnt it refreshing to see some form of action taken immediately, even if there is no wrong doing by the MP, but just a conflict of interest.

[CCS]

Some commentators think it's a panicked reaction by Little and that it sets a dangerous precedent.

[CCS]

Actually, WhaleOil has changed his mind on that:

I’m sorry, I was wrong, I take it all back

The reason I have changed my point of view is this:

1091 (2015). Carmel Sepuloni to the Associate Minister for Social Development (23 Feb 2015): What is the process that the Ministry uses for establishing whether suspected benefit fraud relating to a client having a partner despite saying they live alone, has taken place?

Andrew Little did the right thing, now he must answer why he says she will be re-instated no matter what happens with her mother.

[Ab]

Rock and a hard place.

If Little isn't informed and so does nothing he's not the Leader any more. And National will find out and fuck him with his ignorance.

If Little is informed but does nothing, then National will find out and then it's open season on the Opposition social development spokesperson every time she has an opinion on welfare, and it's open season on Little with the "what did the Leader know and when" questions that would also insulate National from similar questions over Sabin.

If Little is informed and stands Sepuloni down, as has happened, then we get what we've got. On one hand it's "why should Sepuloni be punished for something her mother has only been accused of?" and on the other it's "there's no way a campaign of welfare fraud like that goes unnoticed, so how long has Sepuloni been covering it up?"

Little seems to have gone with the option that has the smallest long-term political damage to him personally, which is surprisingly sensible.

[blynk]

Why stand her down where she has done nothing wrong? Because of the potential for a conflict of interest.

They could just shuffle people around and have someone else take over that portfolio and she could do another.

I would relate it to that they would never have put John Tamihere on the Justice Portfolio, where there is the posible conflict of interest because of his brother.

[Ab]

Conflict schmonflict, Sepuloni's been stood down because from now on every time she asks a question of Paula Bennett, Bennett chews her up and spits her out.

[fixed_truth]

Labour has proposed withholding state support such as tax credits and Working For Families from people who are not enrolled to vote.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11445759


I hope this stupid idea gets shot down. It's bad enough it was even included in the submission smh

[Ab]

That's Labour in a nutshell right there. What a pack of fucking muppets.