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Old 23rd November 2020, 12:49     #601
StN
I have detailed files
 
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Old 23rd November 2020, 12:56     #602
Lightspeed
 
Getting old is rough, isn't it? Even the sharpest insight dulls.
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Old 25th November 2020, 18:44     #603
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Jordan Peterson has written a book, and people are feeling unsafe

https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5bv...-peterson-book
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Old 26th November 2020, 02:23     #604
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Winner of 2019 Orwell Prize driven out of her job at the Guardian for thoughtcrime

https://unherd.com/2020/11/why-i-had...uardian/?=frlh
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Old 27th November 2020, 10:46     #605
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
The students in my classes once benefited from robust critiques, full of passionate assertions and their zealous (even ridiculous) arguments. Now, there is a reluctance to speak at all, and a clamor to agree. If students dare to present a dissenting opinion, they will preface it with an apology and much vacillation. It is wearying.

The deeply held convictions of my students today are chiefly those that have been authorized by someone else. The ivory tower has become an echo chamber.

https://www.persuasion.community/p/t...d-to-cancel-me
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:17     #606
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Winner of 2019 Orwell Prize driven out of her job at the Guardian for thoughtcrime

https://unherd.com/2020/11/why-i-had...uardian/?=frlh
Had she not read The Guardian?
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Old 27th November 2020, 13:35     #607
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
White feminist? That’s a paddlin
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Old 27th November 2020, 17:40     #608
fixed_truth
 
I don't have sympathy for that 'Transwomen are going to rape you in the toilets' bs
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Old 27th November 2020, 18:10     #609
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
so what?
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Old 27th November 2020, 18:16     #610
fixed_truth
 
So good job if someone spouting that bs gets called out on it.
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Old 27th November 2020, 18:33     #611
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
what the fuck are you going on about?
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Old 27th November 2020, 18:52     #612
fixed_truth
 
From your link about why Suzanne Moore left the guardian.
Quote:
So, I finally get to write a piece on trans issues. And 338 “colleagues”
write a letter of complaint
to the editor, alluding to that column.
From that piece that the article is about:
Quote:
Male violence is an issue for women, which is why we want single-sex spaces. . .

. . .Women have the right to call out the violent men who rape.
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Old 27th November 2020, 18:58     #613
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
That you think there's anything controversial - hell, anything that isn't just a plain statement of fact - there blows my mind.
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Old 27th November 2020, 19:27     #614
fixed_truth
 
It's in "a piece on trans issues". Transwomen violence isn't an issue for woman.

Quote:
Let’s be clear: there is no evidence that trans-inclusive laws lead to a rise in criminality—assaults, stalking or harassment—in single-sex spaces. In 2018, peer-reviewed journal Sexuality Research and Social Policy concluded that “fears of increased safety and privacy violations as a result of non-discrimination laws are not empirically grounded.”
Https://link.springer.com/article/10...178-018-0335-z
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Old 29th November 2020, 18:16     #615
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
It's in "a piece on trans issues". Transwomen violence isn't an issue for woman.



Https://link.springer.com/article/10...178-018-0335-z
Pretty sure it's up to women to decide if something is an issue for women.
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Old 29th November 2020, 18:44     #616
Lightspeed
 
Are you suggesting if certain women feel like they're at risk of violence, then they are, justifying steps taken to protect them from their feelings of being at risk?
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Old 29th November 2020, 19:21     #617
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I'm suggesting that it's up to women to decide if something is an issue for women.
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Old 29th November 2020, 20:22     #618
Lightspeed
 
Like at their AGM?
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Old 29th November 2020, 21:50     #619
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Well in theory I suppose, but I’m pretty sure women aren’t allowed to have meetings to discuss women’s issues any more.
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Old 30th November 2020, 00:21     #620
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Pretty sure it's up to women to decide if something is an issue for women.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
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Old 30th November 2020, 02:38     #621
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Well if I heard a white dude say "racism isn't a problem for Maori people" similarly I'd probably reply something to the effect that it's up to Maori people to decide if something is an issue for Maori people, and the next step would probably be to see if any Maori people considered racism a problem.
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Old 30th November 2020, 09:02     #622
fixed_truth
 
If I heard a white dude say "racism isn't a problem for Maori people I’d check that he understood what racism is then point out some of the ample evidence of this. Here Maori can feel like racism is an issue AND this is demonstrably true.

In the women being raped in toilets scenario you are right, there are women who feel it’s an issue and so from their perspective I suppose it is an issue. It’s just that what's happening in the real world shows that this issue only exists in their head. Which is fine but that’s not a justification to exclude transwomen from using the women's toilets.
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Old 30th November 2020, 10:42     #623
Lightspeed
 
What if it were a Maori in a privileged position who was asserting Maori didn't face racism and the problems Maori faced were of Maori making?

Or a man leveraging their position of influence saying men were the real victims of society, that women's rights were hurting men and it was time for men's rights to take centre stage?

Because they're Maori, because they're male, because they're in a position to make their voice heard, they get to speak for you unchallenged?

To be clear, these issues are exceedingly complex. It's useful to have this discussion, these are all things we are working out in all levels of society. We don't have it right and probably never will. We just have to try and do our best.
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Old 30th November 2020, 12:17     #624
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
To be clear, these issues are exceedingly complex. It's useful to have this discussion, these are all things we are working out in all levels of society. We don't have it right and probably never will. We just have to try and do our best.
On this we agree.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 12:21     #625
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Formerly Ellen Page, actor Elliot Page announces transgender identity

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/12/el...ge-1234601639/

Holy shit there's a lot to unpack here and people are going to lose their minds
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Old 2nd December 2020, 16:20     #626
Cyberbob
 
There's so much to unpack. The instant change of every pronoun when taking about that individual person is confusing enough for progressive little old me, let alone others, especially conservative media.


Quote:
Page got his start with breakout film roles in “Hard Candy” and “Juno,” the latter of which earned him an Oscar nomination in the Best Actress category. A year before “Juno” catapulted Page to the mainstream, he appeared as the mutant Kitty Pryde in “X-Men: The Last Stand,” a role he would reprise in the sequel film “X-Men: Days of Future Past.”
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Old 2nd December 2020, 17:07     #627
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
terf wars

As Ellen, Page was a vocal lesbian activist and advocate for women's rights. Since Page is now a trans man, and Trans Men Are Men, that means Page was never a lesbian and was in fact a man occupying a woman's space, drowning out women's voices, and basically mansplaining to women whenever he opened his mouth. A whole lot of women will be taking this as a tacit acknowledgement that the battle for women's rights is unwinnable, that women will always be losers, and that the only way to win the game is to swap to the winning team. Lesbian activists in particular will be losing their shit. And trans identity activists will be declaring jihad on the lesbians.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 17:29     #628
Lightspeed
 
Yes, some old people are going to be grumpy. But old people always are as the world they thought they knew slips away from them.

On the other hand some will be experiencing the awakening of strange new feelings as they look at this person who they found interesting and attractive as a woman, a lesbian woman and now a man.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 18:43     #629
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
example

https://twitter.com/ClaireShrugged/s.../with_comments
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Old 2nd December 2020, 19:53     #630
StN
I have detailed files
 
Ray Davies remembers Candy Darling and yawns.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 10:10     #631
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
As Ellen, Page was a vocal lesbian activist and advocate for women's rights. Since Page is now a trans man, and Trans Men Are Men, that means Page was never a lesbian
So.. Page is a straight man now? That's the worst one to be!
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Old 3rd December 2020, 10:56     #632
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
He literally has a wife and everything.

Lot easier to join the patriarchy than to fight against it I guess?
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Old 3rd December 2020, 13:30     #633
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
There's so much to unpack. The instant change of every pronoun when taking about that individual person is confusing enough for progressive little old me, let alone others, especially conservative media.
Quote:
Page got his start with breakout film roles in “Hard Candy” and “Juno,” the latter of which earned him an Oscar nomination in the Best Actress category. A year before “Juno” catapulted Page to the mainstream, he appeared as the mutant Kitty Pryde in “X-Men: The Last Stand,” a role he would reprise in the sequel film “X-Men: Days of Future Past.”
I would love to see Disney give her a role of a male mutant when the Xmen final come onboard. That would really fuck with right leaning mind.

I haven't seen Umbrella Academy Season 2 yet, but it would be cool if in Season 3, they worked her character into being male.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 13:31     #634
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
He literally has a wife and everything.

Lot easier to join the patriarchy than to fight against it I guess?
I do wonder how long the relationship may last. If his wife was a true lesbian (rather than bi) and if he transitions, it will put a bit of pressure on her.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 13:37     #635
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
I would love to see Disney give her a role of a male mutant when the Xmen final come onboard. That would really fuck with right leaning mind.

I haven't seen Umbrella Academy Season 2 yet, but it would be cool if in Season 3, they worked her character into being male.
Why does the character have to change? Can't he *act* as whatever gender is required? Or is that like blackface?

Ceasar Romero acted as a character that is traditionally known for being clean shaven - who knew the Joker had a moustache?

Last edited by StN : 3rd December 2020 at 13:39.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 13:52     #636
Lightspeed
 
They're not a computer game character that has just had a flag changed on their character profile...
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Old 3rd December 2020, 16:17     #637
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
Why does the character have to change? Can't he *act* as whatever gender is required?
ruh-roh raggy
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Old 3rd December 2020, 21:48     #638
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
Why does the character have to change? Can't he *act* as whatever gender is required? Or is that like blackface?
You are trying to get yourself cancelled, right?

Yes akin to blackface (which is racist AF and should be stopped dead), but with a more active community of those easily triggered.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 21:55     #639
Lightspeed
 
It's not a problem.

The problem is people thinking they have a stake in the gender and sexual identity of others. I just can't relate.
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Old 4th December 2020, 06:44     #640
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed


I was trying to think of an example.
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