nCoV 2019

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

What do you think the author's point of the article I linked is?

That's for you to articulate if you want to get a point across. It's your link. Frankly, I don't care.

Every second fucking report or discussion about the pandemic involves the economy.

As I said, the focus of my comments was - very specifically - political intrigue in the WHO. If you want to discuss a broad spectrum of economic factors, go for it.

[Lightspeed]

All I hear is you deflecting.

I don't believe you're genuinely puzzled about how economics is a factor at play in how the WHO operates.

Demanding a thesis from me is deflecting.

[Lightspeed]

Why I think you're deflecting is it's important to you the WHO is specifically and only under undue political influence by China. For whatever reason.

That's what I've gathered from the way you've engaged (or avoided engaging) in this discussion.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

What the fuck is with the UK only reporting ncov deaths that occur in hospital?

But hey, it's China whose figures we can't trust, amirite?

Seems like every nation has its own "log this as a corona death" criteria. But at least the numbers reflect the criteria. China's numbers are just lies.

[Lightspeed]

That's generous of you.

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Why I think you're deflecting is it's important to you the WHO is specifically and only under undue political influence by China. For whatever reason.

Hey look, it's a straw man I've already acknowledged earlier in the thread that they're under influence from multiple sources. My interest was in the Chinese angle.

That's what I've gathered from the way you've engaged (or avoided engaging) in this discussion.

That's a faulty assumption. I'm happy to engage on any economic matters.

[Lightspeed]

You don't know your logical fallacies.

[crocos]

Going to mostly stay out of this except it's fucking funny watching you dance around, Lightspeed.

[Lightspeed]

My interest is not only in the Chinese angle. In fact, it's of least concern, because I have the least insight into their behaviour.

Of course, at this point you deflect, by repeating what I say, but in italics. OoooOooOooh!

Originally Posted by crocos

Going to mostly stay out of this except it's fucking funny watching you dance around, Lightspeed.

Takes two to tango.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Seems like every nation has its own "log this as a corona death" criteria. But at least the numbers reflect the criteria. China's numbers are just lies.

"Sure, we tell lies. But not like the Chinese!"

Full on monkey-brain, us-and-them.

[Ab]

But they literally are not like us. All that stuff about individual rights and freedom of thought and Protestant Christian ethical framework is stuff that defines our society and not theirs. We find it difficult to process blatant government lying and oppression of individuals expressing the truth because we don't understand it. Us-and-them is the whole point.

[Lightspeed]

But our government does lie, our government oppresses. The thing is our governments lie, oppress the same way you and I lie, oppress. So it's hard to see. It's normalised, uninteresting at least, a threat to our ego-ideals more likely.

The difference we see is apparentbecause it's being pointed out to us.

The Out Of The Shadows documentary isn't compelling because it's especially wrong. It's not compelling because what it raises is well established and can be much more comprehensively and coherently presented, with at least some self-awareness.

There's no bogeyman. The bogeyman is us. Sure, there are some stark power imbalances, but we all play our role.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Ab

Lol there wouldn’t happen to be an advanced virology lab with links to bioweapons research in Wuhan would there? I mean I hate internet gossip but that would be a helluva coincidence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...coronaviruses/

[Lightspeed]

I'm surprised no one is talking about how the death toll count has been suppressed by excluding likely ncov deaths both in the UK and NYC so far. I don't think I was the only one expecting to see a jump in deaths as rest homes were hit by the virus, and so I had that in mind considering the figures being released. I figure I'm not alone.

And I honestly hadn't considered that some wouldn't be including people who had died of pandemic related symptoms but hadn't been specifically tested for the virus.

I'd be pissed if I found out we were pulling the same shit in New Zealand. Again, I figure, I hope I'm not alone.

[StN]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I'd be pissed if I found out we were pulling the same shit in New Zealand. Again, I figure, I hope I'm not alone.

I think we might be going the other way. The dementia unit patients transferred from Rosewood are being listed as having "end of life care" - they have DNRs, and something is going to take them. Might be pneumonia, might be cardiac related. But they have Covid-19, so that's what did it.

[Cyberbob]

NZ's official total case numbers are including what they call "Probable" cases, which aren't the same as "Confirmed", so those likely cases, are likely to be included.

Better than Chile, who are counting those who died as recovered because they're no longer contagious.

[Nich]

Originally Posted by Ab

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...coronaviruses/

Yep, In January this idea was labelled "racist" and "conspiracy theory". We're now in the Manufacturing Consent stage of the geopolitical dance.
- Currency War
- Trade War
- Economic Scorched Earth move by China
- US economy is on life support, free market is on pause, and the USD is being debased to zero if FED continues their infinite QE + offering to buy junk-rated ETFs (everyone gets a trophy, no losers in finance, capitalist gains, socialised losses (everyone gets a $20,000 loan but only $2,000 of it they get to spend on living expenses))
- Boeing cannot even make a plane that can fly https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesas.../#550581cb3528 , but yet the business doesnt go bankrupt because the FED steps in like Mommy to give a bail out.
- Everyone is sitting at home watching news on the virus or the economy, and the more people listen to Jerome Powell, the more people will understand that money is just created by entering a number on a computer (printer go brrrrrr https://youtu.be/UjDAZazWU ). No Gold standard, no Silver dollar.... just FIAT.
- We need everyone to continue believing that national currencies actually have value.
- We need a way to shift view that China has shown great leadership in a time of great adversity.
- We need to give the world a fireworks display and then put our contractors to work on lucrative cleanup / rebuild contracts.

[Lightspeed]

We and our way of life have value. Fiat currency is a reflection of this. When there's a mismatch between genuine value and what the currency reflects, it collapses.

Right? I'm not offering any deep insight here, it's just basic economics. Isn't it? I'll admit to being a layperson on the matter.

WWII demonstrated there are tools available to endure extended periods of debt and still recover. We don't have to be going to war to put these tools to use. Or maybe we do? Seems a bad idea given our capacity of destruction these days.

[Ajax]

For those interested in learning more about the Chinese Communist Party's foreign policy objectives and political interference activities (and how these impact New Zealand directly), Canterbury University's Professor Anne-Marie Brady wrote a highly regarded paper titled Magic Weapons: China's political influence activities under Xi Jinping. There's also a pretty decent summary on The Spinoff.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...coronaviruses/

You would expect to see the Chinese government performing this kind of research. Given the long established threat such viruses pose due to the expectation of these kinds of outbreaks thanks to the wild animal trade, control over which not even the Chinese government possesses.

I could believe this pandemic is a result something that escaped from a lab. Maybe even a weapons lab. I could definitely believe that if this occurred the Chinese would hide this fact to spare itself embarrassment.

But the evidence is far from robust in this regard. And let's not pretend like the Chinese government is the only one with a fragile ego, something worth protecting at the cost of human lives.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Ab

Seems like every nation has its own "log this as a corona death" criteria.

CHILE COUNTS THOSE WHO DIED OF CORONAVIRUS AS RECOVERED BECAUSE THEY'RE 'NO LONGER CONTAGIOUS,' HEALTH MINISTER SAYS

https://www.newsweek.com/chile-count...health-1497775

[Nich]

It's goal seeking pure and simple. Number go down = good for economy and tourism, number go up = bad.

So you just say number going down, or invent a counting method that keeps numbers low. Countries and organisations that can lie about bad high numbers will lie.

Australia was at 15 total cases for most of Feb. No doubt there was more than that at the time. How damaging was that for keeping the public misinformed.

[Nich]

Stephen Colbert
https://youtu.be/LAW3qHG4_ZY

Seth Meyers
https://youtu.be/tw9mYaLnnug

Jimmy Fallon
https://youtu.be/CxgIKIzVRLc

ha ha funny. I reckon it needs some canned laughter to juice it up a bit. Or add in a "Orange man bad!" soundboard.

[ceer]

Originally Posted by Nich

Stephen Colbert
https://youtu.be/LAW3qHG4_ZY

Seth Meyers
https://youtu.be/tw9mYaLnnug

Jimmy Fallon
https://youtu.be/CxgIKIzVRLc

ha ha funny. I reckon it needs some canned laughter to juice it up a bit. Or add in a "Orange man bad!" soundboard.

Yeah been watching a few during my lunchtime in lock down, have to say Seth does a pretty good impression.

[Pepsi]

https://services.workandincome.govt.nz/eps/search

It will be interesting to see how many businesses will get caught out once people look up their wage subsidy payout information. Specifically, those who laid off staff, only to collect the money anyway..

[StN]

Originally Posted by Pepsi

https://services.workandincome.govt.nz/eps/search

It will be interesting to see how many businesses will get caught out once people look up their wage subsidy payout information. Specifically, those who laid off staff, only to collect the money anyway..

Our business applied for it, and part of the deal was that staff had to consent to submitting their details so it could be cross checked down the track once we finish laying people off (inside the 12 week period), and then do a pro-rata pay back. Felt weird basically applying for a benefit for the first time when I am still in full employment.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Pepsi

https://services.workandincome.govt.nz/eps/search

It will be interesting to see how many businesses will get caught out once people look up their wage subsidy payout information. Specifically, those who laid off staff, only to collect the money anyway..

Bingo. This is going to be VERY interesting.'

It's my last official day of employment today, yay. I suspect something dodgy is going on at my former employer and that tax-dept scrutiny of the company books is something the owner wants to avoid at all costs. The AU govt has a similar wage subsidy program (keep people on who would otherwise be let go, reduce wages if the company needs to, govt pays the difference) and in any sane world my former employer would be all over it. But the boss was just "nope, even if we qualify we're not participating in the program, your position is still redundant".

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Nich

It's goal seeking pure and simple. Number go down = good for economy and tourism, number go up = bad.

So you just say number going down, or invent a counting method that keeps numbers low. Countries and organisations that can lie about bad high numbers will lie.

Australia was at 15 total cases for most of Feb. No doubt there was more than that at the time. How damaging was that for keeping the public misinformed.

And from the USA HOLY SHIT WTF dept:

Police responding to an anonymous tip found more than a dozen bodies at a nursing home in north-western New Jersey, according to reports and an email from an owner of the home.

Five bodies were found on Sunday and 13 more were found on Monday at the Andover Subacute and Rehabilitation Centre, Andover Township Police Chief Eric Danielson told The New Jersey Herald.

The remains found at the facility were among 68 deaths linked to the home, including both residents and two nurses, The New York Times reported, citing Danielson, other officials and county records shared with a federal official.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-a...17-p54kmi.html

I wonder how many abandoned buildings full of dead people we're going to slowly find out about in the years to come.

[fixed_truth]

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Ab

And from the USA HOLY SHIT WTF dept:



I wonder how many abandoned buildings full of dead people we're going to slowly find out about in the years to come.

Article Headline: Bodies found at abandoned nursing home!

Reality: Nursing home (and probably local coroner) couldn't handle the rate at which Covid-19 was killing residents, leading to a build up of dead bodies in the room where they usually store bodies.

[Cyberbob]

Depends if it was reported & referred to the coroner, or intentionally hidden from view/records.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by pxpx

Article Headline: Bodies found at abandoned nursing home!

Reality: Nursing home (and probably local coroner) couldn't handle the rate at which Covid-19 was killing residents, leading to a build up of dead bodies in the room where they usually store bodies.

That’s how I read it and what other less clickbaity articles reported.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

Depends if it was reported & referred to the coroner, or intentionally hidden from view/records.

Is it intentional when everyone just stops showing up to work? Where responsibility can be endlessly passed on or written off?

These facilities are run for profit, often under the oversight of managers, not anyone holding positions involving registration and accountability.

Very generous to consider maybe they're just very busy right now.

[Ab]

Amazing how all these totally authentic grassroots Facebook pages popped up overnight, all inspiring patriotic conservative Americans to protest against lockdown and facemask laws...

[Chrono]

I feel dirty coming back after so many years to pimp out a gaming site that me and a few kiwi lads have made to resurrect a few old games.

Simon - all good? Not monetised.

Didn't actually think the forum would be back up! I remember some weird shit going down in the Facebook group, Vodafone finally took the server down? I was in touch with Yumiko for ages, but she left all social media at some point. Anyone spoken to her in a while?

Hope you're all well. I went to London in 2013, moved to Sydney in 2016. Things are all good, started my own infosec consultancy.

One strong memory - that Golden Teapot dude (some rich actuary) gave me free legal advice about an RX3 that I was going to buy down in Balclutha. Didn't end up buying it. But it was a mint 2 door coupe for $8k. They're worth 60-80+ now. Haha.

[MadMax]

WB

I say post it up in the gaming forum as a new thread. Doesn’t get much love there anyway.

[StN]

Originally Posted by Ab

Amazing how all these totally authentic grassroots Facebook pages popped up overnight, all inspiring patriotic conservative Americans to protest against lockdown and facemask laws...

Oh, you mean the ones that a bit of web sleuthing has shown are pretty much cookie cutter copies of a common one, registered back to the same hidden entity?

https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comm...l_advertising/

The new Cambridge Analytica?

[Ab]

Oh, it’s russia.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Ajax

The stock markets are radioactive cat shit at this point in time. I personally won't be going anywhere near them for a while.

Thanks for the investing advice. "Be greedy when others are fearful" etc. Things have shot up nicely since then. Admittedly I didn't bet the farm, but still made enough to have a smile on my face.

[Pepsi]

Originally Posted by Chrono

I was in touch with Yumiko for ages, but she left all social media at some point. Anyone spoken to her in a while?

Hai! Ah yes, I finally saw the light and left those behind a few years back now, but still alive and well. Just messaged you