Labour Thus Far.... - Page 12

Lightspeed · 9th July 2018, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juju

See, everyone is winging about how the income cap is high for these kiwibuild homes, and the lower class are going to have to compete with the middle class to get into the program.

No one is pointing out the fact that these kiwibuild homes are going to cost between $500-650k.
Let's assume the lower class people have put together a very healthy $100k deposit.

That's a $500k mortgage for a 2 bedroom kiwibuild. Or $690 per week@6%. That's $140 more than the rent for any 2 bedroom house in South Auckland that's on trademe right now.

With a lower class couple earning $60k between them, that's $925 per week, or $235 p/w after the mortgage.
Take out rates ($30 per week), water ($20), power ($50) - that's $135 left for everything else - food, petrol, clothing.

Let's say you only need a 10% deposit. Then your mortgage is $747 per week... which leaves you with $178 per week for everything else.

I'm not sure those lower incomers crowing about how "unfair" the eligibility criteria understand the ramifications of what they are asking for.

Ps: I hate that house prices have become so un-affordable that it's a pipe dream for the majority of the population now, it really sucks. I'm just pointing out that the media has, once again, focused on the "oh woe is me" narrative rather that the blunt, and shitty, reality of the real world.

Yeah, forsure. The ever hastening rat race.

What proportion of the cost is building the home? I'm guessing most of the cost is the land the home is built on.

Ab · 9th July 2018, 22:07

“The Government has quietly cancelled extra funding for cochlear implants, despite a successful campaign for publicly-funded devices for every Kiwi who needed one.”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/10526...hlear-implants

Still lots of money for rich pakeha kids to get free tertiary study though.

The Edge · 9th July 2018, 22:21

As much as I dislike him, I thought Winston's comment a few weeks ago that houses should be in the $200 000-$250 000 range was a fair one, as even these Kiwibuild houses - while cheaper than a lot on the market - in my view, aren't that cheap. From memory, he said a house should could 4-5 times whatever your pay packet is. Even at $600 000, these Kiwibuild places will still be out of reach for a lot of people.

Ab · 16th July 2018, 01:47

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12088265

Ab · 16th July 2018, 10:27

But wait there’s more

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...new-government

Quote:

Funding for a ground-breaking mental health scheme to ease strain on emergency services has been axed by the Government.

Still lots of money available to give degrees to rich kids though

Lightspeed · 16th July 2018, 12:23

Speaking of knee-jerk outrage...

I'm with you about the health minister, but no one so far is complaining about axing National's ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff approach to mental health care except National.

What I'm hearing from those actually involved in mental health work is that things are already improving, that experts rather than politicians are once again going to be the ones determining the best way to spend the money available.

National were able to pull the rug out from under demonstrably effective services for years without a peep from anyone but those running the services. Whom National wrote off as "passionate".

Ab · 20th July 2018, 21:57

About that refugee intake? Yeah nah

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...gee-quota.html

Lightspeed · 21st July 2018, 14:04

Is that appropriate, given how we're unable to look after our own?

Or are we still disbelieving of the level of poverty and despair in our communities? Cause we heard some stats.

A school principal on life at a low decile school

CCS · 21st July 2018, 16:57

So it's cool if Labour does it?

Lightspeed · 21st July 2018, 17:00

Does what?

CCS · 21st July 2018, 17:07

Not take extra refugees.

Lightspeed · 21st July 2018, 17:11

What would be cool is if we could take all the world's refugees, help them become thriving members of humanity, living lives they feel are worthwhile.

Are we capable of that?

CCS · 21st July 2018, 17:13

Cool, just dodge the question.

Lightspeed · 21st July 2018, 17:27

Ask a better question. Or don't.

CCS · 21st July 2018, 17:44

There is nothing wrong with the question. You just don't like the answer.

Lightspeed · 21st July 2018, 18:24

How about you make the point you're trying to make? Tell us why you asked a question you already have an answer for.

CCS · 21st July 2018, 20:01

I don't think I do have an answer for it. Not from you.

Lightspeed · 21st July 2018, 20:15

You're a fucking idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

You just don't like the answer.

What answer don't I like?

CCS · 22nd July 2018, 20:43

I'm not a fucking idiot; I'm calling you out on playing dumb.

Let's start again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

About that refugee intake? Yeah nah

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...gee-quota.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Is that appropriate, given how we're unable to look after our own?

Or are we still disbelieving of the level of poverty and despair in our communities? Cause we heard some stats.

A school principal on life at a low decile school

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

So it's cool if Labour does it?

Answer the question.

Lightspeed · 22nd July 2018, 21:44

No, let's not start again. Stop being a such a coward, make your point. Or just be a coward.

CCS · 22nd July 2018, 21:50

Who's being a coward? The guy who is too cowardly to answer a simple question? I've made my point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

So it's cool if Labour does it?

There's a pretty obvious point in there. Obvious for anyone that isn't a fucking idiot, that is. But because being intellectually dishonest is what comes to you naturally, you're doing your standard "play dumb" routine.

Lightspeed · 22nd July 2018, 21:54

Yet still, you can't make your point. You make out like I'm obligated to answer any dumb question you ask. Stupid and a coward.

CCS · 22nd July 2018, 22:10

Look at you, playing games to distract from the question. Trying all the things I say about you but trying to flip them on me. "Ooh look, I'm so revolutionary! I accuse him of the things says of me!" Then you'll say "I'm playing you like a puppet!" Nah, you're embodying the very reason why you're Lolspeed, King of the Intellectually Dishonest.

I've made my point. It's pretty obvious. The more you refuse to answer, the more disingenuous you get.

Should I assume you're all for Labour backflipping on their refugee promise?

Lightspeed · 22nd July 2018, 22:28

lol, so this is about me? Really? Haha, you're so fucking pathetic.

Assume away, you coward.

pxpx · 25th July 2018, 08:23

This citizen jury idea sounds like Labour have listened to all the complaints about expensive working groups, and found a way to create cheaper, less effective working groups.

Lightspeed · 25th July 2018, 10:49

What could possibly go wrong...

fixed_truth · 26th July 2018, 09:04

A few positive things this week

Government's 'kinder' approach to beneficiaries starting to show, as sanctions fall and hardship grants rise
Government announces $10.5m mental health pilot for 18-25-year-olds
Domestic violence victims able to take a new form of leave

Lightspeed · 26th July 2018, 11:07

What I like about leave for victims of domestic violence is it makes it more visible, more about to be acknowledged. I suspect there won't be many taking up the leave initially, but any steps to reduce taboos around talking about domestic violence are a win.

BoyWonder · 26th July 2018, 12:33

Surely employers already grant special leave in these situations and hopefully offer further help, or if someone doesn't want to discuss what happened will continue to just take sick leave or unpaid leave.

To me it seems like granting leave should become the formality, so this is good, but the real gain would be having the leave granted in tandem with a coordinated way of employers getting help for the employee. I don't know what that is exactly but it doesn't seem like it would be achieving anything without taking steps to prevent further violence. It all costs $$$ as well obviously.

pxpx · 26th July 2018, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

What I like about leave for victims of domestic violence is it makes it more visible, more about to be acknowledged. I suspect there won't be many taking up the leave initially, but any steps to reduce taboos around talking about domestic violence are a win.

"Where's Linda?"
"Oh she's on domestic violence leave"

Lightspeed · 26th July 2018, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyWonder

Surely employers already grant special leave in these situations and hopefully offer further help

Many employers are cunts, and will viciously defend against perceived loss of productivity.

BoyWonder · 26th July 2018, 15:06

True, and this will help in those situations.

There will also be cases where the leave gets abused and an employer would be entering risky territory to question it. It seems to me like it would deter that kind of abuse and try to help the victims to have a follow up/referral system of some sort tied into it.

While I don't think its a bad idea, it just seems like it sounds good, but doesn't do much about the problem.

Lightspeed · 26th July 2018, 21:25

Employees can be dishonest in any number of respects, there are already mechanisms in place to hold dishonest employees accountable. Making abuse victims jump through additional hoops to negate the small number of dishonest people that might exist would only deter these victims who already face enough barriers.

It's only a small step, but a significant one I feel. My hope is that it will be a part of a cultural shift. It's not going to solve the problem of domestic violence, that a large and complex issue.

At the moment it's far too cheap and easy to get away with abuse, far too difficult for victims to find meaningful support and justice. The burden falls on the abused. It might seem unfair that we all bear the burden of such abuse, but it's even less fair that only victims bear such consequences. The more we as a society have to directly bear the cost of abuse, the more we'll be encouraged to stand up to it.

blynk · 27th July 2018, 16:05

OMG, my ears hurt listening to talkback yesterday.

Basically most callers (who I imagine have never dealt with domestic violence) were spouting on that this is bad etc.
Or that it wouldn't be used.

And while I believe most people in that situation are too ashamed and wouldn't want to tell the employer, if it saves 1 persons life. It is worth it.

And if an employer can't afford a person taking a few extra days off because of this, then they shouldn't be an employer.

However I like one view that it should be paid by ACC (or maybe an alternative like Winz). It could be done through the employer and they can then make the claim back to get the money. (Although maybe this would be abused).

Ab · 17th August 2018, 22:08

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12108983

what a prick

StN · 17th August 2018, 22:18

Hmm - swings and roundabouts?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/national-...lery_id=195627

Lightspeed · 17th August 2018, 23:45

lol, that's hilarious, "you are a bitch". Oh burn.

National has not a leg to stand on when it comes to mental health. They can go fuck themselves, just saying.

CCS · 24th August 2018, 17:09

Labour's #1 Idiot outski: Clare Curran gone

Lightspeed · 24th August 2018, 18:31

About time.

CCS · 24th August 2018, 18:33

Gone from cabinet, loses open government and government digital services portfolios. Keeps broadcasting and ACC roles.

So the minister for open government lost the portfolio because she kept failing to be open. Genious.

21st July 2018, 16:57	#449
CCS Stunt Pants	So it's cool if Labour does it? __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

21st July 2018, 17:07	#451
CCS Stunt Pants	Not take extra refugees. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

21st July 2018, 17:13	#453
CCS Stunt Pants	Cool, just dodge the question. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

21st July 2018, 17:44	#455
CCS Stunt Pants	There is nothing wrong with the question. You just don't like the answer. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

21st July 2018, 20:01	#457
CCS Stunt Pants	I don't think I do have an answer for it. Not from you. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

9th July 2018, 22:07	#442
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	“The Government has quietly cancelled extra funding for cochlear implants, despite a successful campaign for publicly-funded devices for every Kiwi who needed one.” https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/10526...hlear-implants Still lots of money for rich pakeha kids to get free tertiary study though.

9th July 2018, 22:21	#443
The Edge	As much as I dislike him, I thought Winston's comment a few weeks ago that houses should be in the $200 000-$250 000 range was a fair one, as even these Kiwibuild houses - while cheaper than a lot on the market - in my view, aren't that cheap. From memory, he said a house should could 4-5 times whatever your pay packet is. Even at $600 000, these Kiwibuild places will still be out of reach for a lot of people. Last edited by The Edge : 9th July 2018 at 22:22.

16th July 2018, 01:47	#444
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12088265

16th July 2018, 12:23	#446
Lightspeed	Speaking of knee-jerk outrage... I'm with you about the health minister, but no one so far is complaining about axing National's ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff approach to mental health care except National. What I'm hearing from those actually involved in mental health work is that things are already improving, that experts rather than politicians are once again going to be the ones determining the best way to spend the money available. National were able to pull the rug out from under demonstrably effective services for years without a peep from anyone but those running the services. Whom National wrote off as "passionate". __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

20th July 2018, 21:57	#447
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	About that refugee intake? Yeah nah https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...gee-quota.html

21st July 2018, 14:04	#448
Lightspeed	Is that appropriate, given how we're unable to look after our own? Or are we still disbelieving of the level of poverty and despair in our communities? Cause we heard some stats. A school principal on life at a low decile school __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

21st July 2018, 17:00	#450
Lightspeed	Does what? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

21st July 2018, 17:11	#452
Lightspeed	What would be cool is if we could take all the world's refugees, help them become thriving members of humanity, living lives they feel are worthwhile. Are we capable of that? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

21st July 2018, 17:27	#454
Lightspeed	Ask a better question. Or don't. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

21st July 2018, 18:24	#456
Lightspeed	How about you make the point you're trying to make? Tell us why you asked a question you already have an answer for. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

22nd July 2018, 21:44	#460
Lightspeed	No, let's not start again. Stop being a such a coward, make your point. Or just be a coward. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

22nd July 2018, 21:54	#462
Lightspeed	Yet still, you can't make your point. You make out like I'm obligated to answer any dumb question you ask. Stupid and a coward. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

22nd July 2018, 22:10	#463
CCS Stunt Pants	Look at you, playing games to distract from the question. Trying all the things I say about you but trying to flip them on me. "Ooh look, I'm so revolutionary! I accuse him of the things says of me!" Then you'll say "I'm playing you like a puppet!" Nah, you're embodying the very reason why you're Lolspeed, King of the Intellectually Dishonest. I've made my point. It's pretty obvious. The more you refuse to answer, the more disingenuous you get. Should I assume you're all for Labour backflipping on their refugee promise? __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

22nd July 2018, 22:28	#464
Lightspeed	lol, so this is about me? Really? Haha, you're so fucking pathetic. Assume away, you coward. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

25th July 2018, 08:23	#465
pxpx	This citizen jury idea sounds like Labour have listened to all the complaints about expensive working groups, and found a way to create cheaper, less effective working groups.

25th July 2018, 10:49	#466
Lightspeed	What could possibly go wrong... __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

26th July 2018, 09:04	#467
fixed_truth	A few positive things this week Government's 'kinder' approach to beneficiaries starting to show, as sanctions fall and hardship grants rise Government announces $10.5m mental health pilot for 18-25-year-olds Domestic violence victims able to take a new form of leave __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

26th July 2018, 11:07	#468
Lightspeed	What I like about leave for victims of domestic violence is it makes it more visible, more about to be acknowledged. I suspect there won't be many taking up the leave initially, but any steps to reduce taboos around talking about domestic violence are a win. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

26th July 2018, 12:33	#469
BoyWonder	Surely employers already grant special leave in these situations and hopefully offer further help, or if someone doesn't want to discuss what happened will continue to just take sick leave or unpaid leave. To me it seems like granting leave should become the formality, so this is good, but the real gain would be having the leave granted in tandem with a coordinated way of employers getting help for the employee. I don't know what that is exactly but it doesn't seem like it would be achieving anything without taking steps to prevent further violence. It all costs $$$ as well obviously.

26th July 2018, 15:06	#472
BoyWonder	True, and this will help in those situations. There will also be cases where the leave gets abused and an employer would be entering risky territory to question it. It seems to me like it would deter that kind of abuse and try to help the victims to have a follow up/referral system of some sort tied into it. While I don't think its a bad idea, it just seems like it sounds good, but doesn't do much about the problem.

26th July 2018, 21:25	#473
Lightspeed	Employees can be dishonest in any number of respects, there are already mechanisms in place to hold dishonest employees accountable. Making abuse victims jump through additional hoops to negate the small number of dishonest people that might exist would only deter these victims who already face enough barriers. It's only a small step, but a significant one I feel. My hope is that it will be a part of a cultural shift. It's not going to solve the problem of domestic violence, that a large and complex issue. At the moment it's far too cheap and easy to get away with abuse, far too difficult for victims to find meaningful support and justice. The burden falls on the abused. It might seem unfair that we all bear the burden of such abuse, but it's even less fair that only victims bear such consequences. The more we as a society have to directly bear the cost of abuse, the more we'll be encouraged to stand up to it. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

27th July 2018, 16:05	#474
blynk	OMG, my ears hurt listening to talkback yesterday. Basically most callers (who I imagine have never dealt with domestic violence) were spouting on that this is bad etc. Or that it wouldn't be used. And while I believe most people in that situation are too ashamed and wouldn't want to tell the employer, if it saves 1 persons life. It is worth it. And if an employer can't afford a person taking a few extra days off because of this, then they shouldn't be an employer. However I like one view that it should be paid by ACC (or maybe an alternative like Winz). It could be done through the employer and they can then make the claim back to get the money. (Although maybe this would be abused).

17th August 2018, 22:08	#475
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12108983 what a prick

17th August 2018, 22:18	#476
StN I have detailed files	Hmm - swings and roundabouts? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/national-...lery_id=195627

17th August 2018, 23:45	#477
Lightspeed	lol, that's hilarious, "you are a bitch". Oh burn. National has not a leg to stand on when it comes to mental health. They can go fuck themselves, just saying. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

24th August 2018, 17:09	#478
CCS Stunt Pants	Labour's #1 Idiot outski: Clare Curran gone __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

24th August 2018, 18:31	#479
Lightspeed	About time. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

24th August 2018, 18:33	#480
CCS Stunt Pants	Gone from cabinet, loses open government and government digital services portfolios. Keeps broadcasting and ACC roles. So the minister for open government lost the portfolio because she kept failing to be open. Genious. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?