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Old 14th July 2020, 10:10     #5601
blynk
 
I do. National just sat back and let Labour implode.
Similar to what Labour is doing right now. Sitting back.

They do have to be careful though. If Collins becomes leader, I bet she will take a hard line on any indiscretions within the party.
I don't believe the odds are high, but she could start to pull some voters back.
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Old 14th July 2020, 10:48     #5602
fixed_truth
 
Yeah, and their renewal was with a minimum of dirty politics & dodgy if not illegal behavior. And the country isn't being neglected at the moment either, quite the opposite.
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Old 14th July 2020, 11:16     #5603
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Do you remember what Labour was like pre-Jacinda?
It’s still like that, it just has Jacinda as leader
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Old 14th July 2020, 12:31     #5604
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Todd Muller resigns as leader of the National Party
Wow. The National party really is a shit show.
Audrey Young in the Herald is describing Muller as having had a breakdown. Let's hope he gets help.
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Old 14th July 2020, 12:34     #5605
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Do you remember what Labour was like pre-Jacinda?
When I heard the news I recalled the criticism against Clark for leaving Labour without a suitable protégé. Then I thought "lolz".
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Old 14th July 2020, 12:36     #5606
Lightspeed
 
Still, National implodes we're straight to "remember Labour!!1!".

Which is another lolz, one that helps explain National's current predicament. Deflection, no matter how successfully you've ingrained it into your constituent, only goes so far.
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Old 14th July 2020, 13:21     #5607
Nothing
 
I would say that the prospect of a Collins leadership is no good for National because she lacks empathy, but then, that probably appeals to their base.
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Old 14th July 2020, 13:28     #5608
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Let's not assume that this is even over. Goldsmith is probably thinking about spending time with his family - and if he's not, he should be.
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Old 14th July 2020, 14:18     #5609
Lightspeed
 
National needs to bring Bridges back, Adams needs to backtrack on her backtrack when it comes to retirement. With a hefty demotion for Collins for her role in rolling Bridges.

That's probably a better outcome for NZ, leaving some semblance of an opposition remaining intact.

Although to be honest, the best parliament for NZ would be a Labour government, with strong Green opposition. Labour as NZ's conservative party, with the neolibs out of the picture. But I'm having a daydream.
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Old 14th July 2020, 14:50     #5610
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Audrey Young in the Herald is describing Muller as having had a breakdown. Let's hope he gets help.
While I agree that people get help they need, it's seems a bit suspect.
Does he not know what politics can be like?

Did he not know how much media attention he would get.
Did he not know how much scrutiny he would be under for the rest of his party.
Did he not know how much pressure he would be under.

It's probably quite lucky he didnt stay on and become PM.

Surely these things would have been thought when you contemplate rolling the leader, or was he lead into by ulterior motives.
1 - be a stand in leader till Luxon gets there
2 - stop the slide under bridges, otherwise National would have be decimated, and ACT may have become the main opposition party
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Old 14th July 2020, 15:03     #5611
Nothing
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Although to be honest, the best parliament for NZ would be a Labour government, with strong Green opposition. Labour as NZ's conservative party, with the neolibs out of the picture. But I'm having a daydream.
Nice dream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
... and ACT may have become the main opposition party
LOL! Act can't even get over the 5% threshold most of the time, they only get in by winning an electorate seat, which National strategically avoids standing a strong candidate in so that they can keep ACT in the picture. ACT are too far right to become a serious opposition party.
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Old 14th July 2020, 15:16     #5612
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
Nice dream.

LOL! Act can't even get over the 5% threshold most of the time, they only get in by winning an electorate seat, which National strategically avoids standing a strong candidate in so that they can keep ACT in the picture. ACT are too far right to become a serious opposition party.
There are a lot of people out there missing their guns.
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Old 14th July 2020, 15:51     #5613
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
ACT are too far right
Nah. No nationalist/religious/masculist/statist overtones at all. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them "Right".
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Old 14th July 2020, 15:54     #5614
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
Does he not know what politics can be like?
By the sounds of it, not really. He's only been an MP for what, 3 years? I think his greatest failing is an excess of self-belief. I mean, he is an old white guy. It's possible no-one has ever told him that he's not awesome in his life. And even if he is clever and accomplished that doesn't mean that he's good at leadership politics. Look at Don Brash and David Cunliffe and David Shearer - bright guys, significant accomplishments, terrible party leaders.

He thought he was up to it and listened to people who told him it was HIS TIME and he knifed a leader that I thought was starting to look pretty good. His hubris has certainly handed the next election to Labour.
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Old 14th July 2020, 16:27     #5615
Nothing
 
Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
he knifed a leader that I thought was starting to look pretty good
Bridges, starting to look good? :*D Tears of lol.
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Old 14th July 2020, 16:33     #5616
Lightspeed
 
Cheesy grin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
a leader that I thought was starting to look pretty good.
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Old 14th July 2020, 16:55     #5617
StN
I have detailed files
 
It's a hard track coming back from the Yak.

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Old 14th July 2020, 17:29     #5618
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
Bridges, starting to look good? :*D Tears of lol.
National was polling higher than Labour before COVID hit.
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Old 14th July 2020, 17:59     #5619
Nothing
 
Oh, right, I thought you were talking about THIS decade.
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Old 14th July 2020, 18:26     #5620
Lightspeed
 
I secretly hope Collins takes leadership and does abysmally in the election.
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Old 14th July 2020, 18:47     #5621
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
So many angles. Personally I'd like Simon to come back, purge the soviets of counter-revolutionary dissidents, lose the election but emerge with stronger internal support, and run a decent and strong Opposition up to winning with a National-Green-ACT coalition in 2023.

At times like these though the question always comes down to "who is the other party most afraid of?" and Labour is way more scared of Judith than of Simon.
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Old 14th July 2020, 18:53     #5622
Nothing
 
Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
National-Green-ACT
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Old 14th July 2020, 20:50     #5623
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Newshub: it's Judith

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...er-source.html
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Old 14th July 2020, 21:15     #5624
fixed_truth
 
Hmm a bit of a gamble to lurch to the right. That's the Act vote reclaimed but what about swing voters? I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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Old 14th July 2020, 22:04     #5625
blynk
 
But they probably don't have to worry about being too sensitive attacking Adern.
Not being a male will give Collins a lot of leeway.
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Old 14th July 2020, 22:06     #5626
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
By the sounds of it, not really. He's only been an MP for what, 3 years? I think his greatest failing is an excess of self-belief. I mean, he is an old white guy. It's possible no-one has ever told him that he's not awesome in his life. And even if he is clever and accomplished that doesn't mean that he's good at leadership politics. Look at Don Brash and David Cunliffe and David Shearer - bright guys, significant accomplishments, terrible party leaders.

He thought he was up to it and listened to people who told him it was HIS TIME and he knifed a leader that I thought was starting to look pretty good. His hubris has certainly handed the next election to Labour.
Yeah, you're probably right. In his other jobs it's been the team around him that have probably made him look good. And at those companies it's all about the company success.
But with politics, it's all personal, looking out only for themselves.
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Old 15th July 2020, 03:03     #5627
Lightspeed
 
How is Christchurch going to feel voting for Brownlee as Deputy PM? StN?
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Old 15th July 2020, 06:30     #5628
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
How is Christchurch going to feel voting for Brownlee as Deputy PM? StN?
Oh FUCK! My blue card carrying Dad must be spinning in his box.
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Old 15th July 2020, 19:29     #5629
The Edge
 
Collins eh? Pretty polarising and a fair amount of baggage.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-politics.html
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Old 15th July 2020, 19:51     #5630
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
way more scared of Judith
Is there a scarier person in NZ?
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Old 15th July 2020, 20:08     #5631
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edge
Collins eh? Pretty polarising and a fair amount of baggage.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-politics.html
CEO of boomers
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Old 16th July 2020, 07:31     #5632
fixed_truth
 
Revolt - National Party MPs Nikki Kaye, Amy Adams quit politics

Two popular and comparatively liberal females getting out. Not good.
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:21     #5633
blynk
 
I was wondering who all the "experienced" politicians Collins was talking about, with them leaving or have already left.

Read through the party list, and there are a lot of "who?"
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:42     #5634
fixed_truth
 
Shocking behavior already. Who does she think she is, Bill Gates?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-costs-5.html
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:54     #5635
pxpx
 
Fuck she's evil.
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Old 16th July 2020, 19:05     #5636
Lightspeed
 
Laugh

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Old 16th July 2020, 19:25     #5637
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Shocking behavior already. Who does she think she is, Bill Gates?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-costs-5.html
At least Bill took it on the chin and played it for laughs while being the world's greatest philanthropist.
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Old 16th July 2020, 21:18     #5638
BoyWonder
 
LOL at people making a big deal about a couple of National MPs leaving, ignoring the fact that Megan Woods, Chris Hipkins and Grant Robertson are basically the only ones keeping the entire coalition government functioning.
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Old 16th July 2020, 21:59     #5639
Lightspeed
 
A couple today, lolz.

The opposition is in disarray, while as you point out the government has several competent leaders it can rely on.
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Old 16th July 2020, 22:13     #5640
BoyWonder
 
Several meaning the 3 I named? I guess we agree on the heavy lifting those 3 are doing to keep the ship afloat.
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