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3rd October 2018, 15:21 | #41201 | |
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Perhaps you can tell me what you want, rather than what I need? I've got my needs covered, thanks.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
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3rd October 2018, 16:10 | #41202 |
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Never send a physicist to do a social scientists work - they'll fuck it up.
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
3rd October 2018, 16:36 | #41203 | |
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Last edited by xor : 3rd October 2018 at 16:37. |
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3rd October 2018, 17:01 | #41204 |
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Of course, I see my error now. I'm sorry my dick is so big.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
3rd October 2018, 17:08 | #41205 |
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lol, at that moment Cunliffe realised The Group of Radical Tolerance was an exclusive club.
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3rd October 2018, 17:16 | #41206 | |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
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3rd October 2018, 17:34 | #41207 |
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It's not the number of characters, it's the size of the font that counts!
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Stay shook. No sook. |
3rd October 2018, 17:53 | #41208 |
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You've now offended the trans community, you are deplatformed for your offensive comments.
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3rd October 2018, 19:08 | #41209 |
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Speaking of anti-vaxxers: Anti-vacination billboard taken down
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Stay shook. No sook. |
3rd October 2018, 20:50 | #41210 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Apologies for the absence of my usual sarcastic/inflammatory posting in this thread today, moving house, fuck I hate.
Anyway. Professor Strumia. In my down time between picking boxes of stuff up from one place and getting yelled at to put them in another place, I gave the PDF of his PPT a quick scan. Some quick thoughts: - dude obviously isn't superfluent in English - the PDF doesn't seem to contain the text of his presentation, just his on-screen material, so I have no idea what he actually said in person or if he said it in Italian or English - jesus powerpoint sucks - jesus people suck at conveying information when using powerpoint - looks to me like Strumia went out of his way to acknowledge the issues facing women in the sciences; the "physics was invented by men" bit that he's getting lynched for was literally on a slide entitled "Discrimination against women". He was giving an example of something systemic that makes shit hard for women! - summary: he's getting "So what you're saying is"d Cathy Newman style hard by people who didn't even read his presentation let alone hear what he said - no-one is arguing with his data, which is a lot of the ppt - Strumia, a non-native-English speaker, is getting reamed by fluent English users who are parsing his every implication and every possible inference in the worst possible ways - he's fucked. This is already a "you're worse than Hitler for even bringing this research up, my feelings are hurt, I want to speak to your manager, I'll have your job for this, I asked for a cheeseburger without gherkin" situation, and social justice warriors will be virtue-signalling until Strumia is a smoking hole in the ground. |
4th October 2018, 00:53 | #41211 |
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His first mistake could arguably be when he assumed his audience spoke English, and thus he revealed himself to be a hetro-cis-normative manplainer worthy of contempt.
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4th October 2018, 07:40 | #41212 | |
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Sounds like he has an axe to grind. He doesn't acknowledge that it's his drawing inferences from the data that's the problem ie, his biological determinism that the gender in-balance is actually about IQ and peoples (innate) choices.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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4th October 2018, 07:58 | #41213 |
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Pages 24-26 put him well in the conspiracy theory camp.
What I find interesting is that he uses a lot of contemporary citation information as an indicator of both success and quality, without mentioning the huge issues with citation indices - let alone his own work on trying to develop a 2nd degree factor for citation ranking (which was ostensibly what his uninvited talk was supposed to be about). Oh using his own employment failure to a woman with less citations as a "case study" is just fucking hilarious (not to mention unethical). Literally no citations on his "discrimination against women" slide, but manages seven on his "discrimination against men" slide? Stop it, the intentional biased framing is killing me! If you're wondering why no one is "debating the data" it's because he knows that it's unreliable (he's actually literally argued this), others who actually study cultural fields know that it's only a small part of the picture and every other person is rolling their eyes at the idea that citations are the only thing which contribute towards employment or success in the field. Dude wrote a presentation designed to be controversial, presented it under false pretences and is then shocked when there are repercussions. There are literally dozens of ways that some of the information in there could have been framed that made it palatable and useful to the audience. If he is being lynched then he picked the tree, hung the rope, lit the torches and sent out the invites - he just needed a hand kicking the stool out from under his feet.
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
4th October 2018, 10:00 | #41214 |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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Do you think that having a controversial opinion and saying it out loud is a good enough reason for dismissal?
I realise that we live in a world where such an outcome ought to be expected, but do you think that such an outcome is reasonable and is a net positive for society? This guy deserves to be fired, as he "roundhouse kicked" a pro-life woman. This crosses the line, because he didn't just express his opinion, he physically assaulted someone. I doubt many people have any sympathy for him, and I doubt anyone can argue that free speech/expression extends to assaulting someone with whom you disagree.
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
4th October 2018, 10:15 | #41215 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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He wasn’t fired because he had a controversial opinion, he was fired because someone felt offended. That’s a small but enormous difference.
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4th October 2018, 10:25 | #41216 | ||
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https://twitter.com/sheydaipek/statu...11306058768384 In most places I've worked bringing the organisation into disrepute is considered serious misconduct and has the potential to lead to dismissal - I'm pretty sure this would be the view CERN had of his actions. Quote:
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
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4th October 2018, 11:03 | #41217 |
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lol, I think you guys are misrepresenting the issue somewhat. Are you perhaps offended?
He wasn't fired because he shared an opinion or because someone felt offended. He did share an opinion and I'm sure someone felt offended, but that didn't get him fired. He was fired because he's a scientist holding a position of authority who used bad science to promote a particular point of view. Offended people may have played a role in his dismissal, but it wasn't offence alone that led to the consequences he's facing. Gender is a complex issue that needs to be handled with sensitivity. There are a lot of people who would like to take information that might suggest one thing or another without engaging fully with the science to promote their agenda. Agendas which have real world consequences. No one needs convincing of that right? We seen plenty of that in action. You can make accurate statements about vaccination that sound scary when held out of context. If a member of a DHB started promoting a view using accurate, yet insightful data about vaccinations, would we be surprised or disappointed when they lose their position? And the science around vaccination is very clear. If that science can be distorted to the point it impacts the health in our community as it clearly has, how much more so is this possible with something as opaque as social science?
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Stay shook. No sook. |
4th October 2018, 11:14 | #41218 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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4th October 2018, 11:21 | #41219 | |
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I guess I could be offended by a "hotshot" physicist playing at being an amateur sociologist? Would that help? I mean it is worth while to highlight that he was speaking as an amateur outside of his field of expertise.
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
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4th October 2018, 11:24 | #41220 |
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Ab can only view this through the lens of offended people.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
4th October 2018, 12:02 | #41221 |
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God help us if we leave public discourse about gender to approved speakers who only talk about approved subjects using approved methods.
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4th October 2018, 12:09 | #41222 |
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Sheesh hyperbole much - all I said was in this discussion he isn't an expert. He is the literal definition of an empty suit (to use a Talebism).
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
4th October 2018, 12:11 | #41223 | |
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Stay shook. No sook. |
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4th October 2018, 12:23 | #41224 |
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One day we're going to wish that the only people who were allowed to speak publicly about climate change were those who had done the hard work in understanding climate change.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
4th October 2018, 12:50 | #41225 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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4th October 2018, 12:56 | #41226 | |
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4th October 2018, 12:57 | #41227 |
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It isn't an exaggeration to point out that just a slight public misstep can be blown out of proportion both in the response, and the counter-response. Even darlings like Steven Pinker gets cannibalised for mentioning there are biologically 2 genders.
But no one group has their hand on the lever that deems something good or bad. I think the outrage is largely unintentional and effortless. Twitter is 4chan-gone-mainstream. It's capacity to overwhelm and destroy can spontaneously manifest from a simple click of support for some showerthought scaled across millions of half-engaged participants. It's different to climate change obfuscation. Propaganda on climate change comes from a concerted effort to distort by big oil and petro-chemical companies. The gender outrage mob is like a kitten playing with a moth. |
4th October 2018, 12:58 | #41228 |
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For Ab: Aside from that link to one tweet my assessment of the situation has been solely based on the contents of the slides - which are shit in my professional opinion (both the layout and content). The circumstances surrounding how he ended up speaking have been widely reported as well.
Any judgements I'm making are based on what I have access to.
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. Last edited by [Malks] Pixie : 4th October 2018 at 13:01. |
4th October 2018, 13:26 | #41229 | |||
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Having said that I've come to be convinced that all social media which operate on a large scale (so excluding things which have a geographic grounding or bias) have a primary function of producing affect, while communication has become a secondary function which only supersedes affective functions in a case of things like national or regional disasters. Quote:
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
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4th October 2018, 13:55 | #41230 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Even if Strumia's position were completely reversed ("women are inherently the bestest at physics and the system is appropriately weighted in their favour!") he would still be getting lynched. Noone with his background using Powerpoint on that subject would be able to avoid it. |
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4th October 2018, 14:30 | #41231 |
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His English is heavily accented but perfectly understandable (footage from a different conference). Also looking at the presentation he has there it's simple, but perfectly fine for the purpose - so he is competent in powerpoint (or one of his post-grads or TA's are).
As a professional appraisal I can think of a couple of ways he could have re-framed the information he was presenting but he would have had to hold back on drawing the conclusions he did. Also those last couple of pages would just have to go - they have no place in a presentation like this and any good insights he had would have been undermined. Finally, and most importantly, this was not the forum to be presenting this material. At all. Write it up properly, get it peer reviewed and present it at an actual conference and link it to his work on second generation citation algorithms. As it stands it's basically political theatre dressed up as a scientific presentation. [As a side note this consultancy gig is pretty cool and going well - not self sustaining as yet and I need to get some new clients, but my results and feedback from clients has been great!]
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. Last edited by [Malks] Pixie : 4th October 2018 at 14:32. |
4th October 2018, 14:43 | #41232 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Make sure you're getting paid
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5th October 2018, 09:55 | #41233 |
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Welcome to the Fragilista Club
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8th October 2018, 11:01 | #41234 |
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For shits & giggles, I went back to 2003 for a few minutes to see what NZGames was talking about back then.
You know when you reflect on your past and think "What the hell were we all thinking?" - It was one of those moments. edit: holy crap, britney.paradise.net.nz still resolves to homepages.paradise. One of the few URL's from 2003 not broken.
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ Last edited by Cyberbob : 8th October 2018 at 11:05. |
8th October 2018, 12:39 | #41235 | |
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Stay shook. No sook. |
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8th October 2018, 20:57 | #41236 |
Stuff
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My degree of sarcasm depends on your degree of stupidity. |
9th October 2018, 01:17 | #41237 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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9th October 2018, 08:07 | #41238 |
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I don't know if it was mpx's 'Hottest nz geek chick' thread, or Flic's great Wellington meetup thread (Epic night, btw) that made me think it, but it sure was a throw back to a simpler, more stupid, time.
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ |
9th October 2018, 16:25 | #41239 |
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i am somehow both continually amazed and yet completely unsurprised by dipshits who continue to get scammed on facebook. not just the idiots in that news article today but in my current role its like a wave of stupidity that washes over my face every day.
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9th October 2018, 21:11 | #41240 | |
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