New Zealand Police - setting fine examples!

[CCS]

Originally Posted by crocos

To be fair, Exit International are the euthanasia group other euthanasia groups want nothing to do with.

Doesn't really matter. Using that sort of subterfuge is pretty fucked. That's the sort of shit you see in a lot of American YouTube videos.

Last I checked (just now) we have a right to freedom of association in this country. I wonder if a police checkpoint under false pretences is an infringement of that right? If the police think the Exit International group is doing something illegal, then they should bloody well prove it instead of demanding to see people's identification not for traffic enforcement purposes but for creating a database of Persons Known To Attend Exit International meetings.

The whole thing stinks.

[madmaxii]

Originally Posted by CCS

The whole thing stinks.

Scares the shit out of me really. Who's the puppet master?

[DrTiTus]

Probably the same nigga trying to fly around the world "Air Force One" style.

[DrTiTus]

God I hope people don't vote this government back in. Otherwise they'll claim to "have a mandate" to take away our rights.

[MadMax]

No doubt it's a tactic they've used many times before.

In before terrorism

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by crocos

To be fair, Exit International are the euthanasia group other euthanasia groups want nothing to do with.

I don't really care if it was an aryan brotherhood enthusiasts meeting, it's completely against their ethics/conduct code and the public's best interests.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by madmaxii

Scares the shit out of me really. Who's the puppet master?

That is a good question. Who made the call to put in the resources to focus on this group? And why?

[Spoon1]

Guys, guys it's fine. They'll look into it and decide that it's all good and no-one will be held accountable...

[madmaxii]

Originally Posted by Spoon1

Guys, guys it's fine. They'll look into it and decide that it's all good and no-one will be held accountable...

Looks like they've volunteered to put themselves in front of the IPC. Not enough really. It should never have happened. Still scared.

[DrTiTus]

Damage control~

It must be the only time they've been dodgy, not revealing a pattern of cuntiness at all. Because if they were really cunts they wouldn't volunteer an investigation.

Either that or they've learnt a thing or two from NZ justice - specifically that an early guilty plea is huge mitigation for your sentence.

Definitely guilty. Hoping to be let off because they're famous and it might impact their privileges.

[DrTiTus]

I can't tell you who to vote for - just don't for those cunts again. You have been warned.

[Ab]

pssst in NZ you don't get to vote for who is in the police

[crocos]

But Ab, don'cha know that John Key explicitly tells the police what to do! /derp

[Lightspeed]

It seems in lieu of being intimately involved in the lives of your children faking an arrest to scare them is an acceptable alternative.

(It's not clear in the article, but it was previously reported that at least one of the accused is a police officer.)

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...police-station

[Lightspeed]

Here's a more complete article.

Two top police officers have been charged with kidnapping over an alleged mock arrest of a teenage boy in Auckland last year.

Inspector Hurimoana Dennis and fellow officer Sergeant Vaughan Perry were due to appear in court next week.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Ab

pssst in NZ you don't get to vote for who is in the police

No, but you get to vote for the government, who in turn appoints a Minister of Police. Remember how Judith Collins pushed for the crushing of boy racer cars? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the government does indeed have an influence on how the Police conduct themselves.

If the Minister of Police is not actively berating the Police for how they have behaved then she is condoning it, and they are likely to carry on doing as they wish.

And crocos, you think the Minster of Police just comes up with ideas all by his/her self and never consults other members of the party, in particular the one who ultimately decides whether she keeps or loses her job after discussing said ideas to the media and public? Get real.

[pxpx]

When the gummint changes after the next-next election, can we have a "NZ Police Thus Far" thread?

[CCS]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

No, but you get to vote for the government, who in turn appoints a Minister of Police. Remember how Judith Collins pushed for the crushing of boy racer cars? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the government does indeed have an influence on how the Police conduct themselves.

Crushing boyracer cars is a piece of legislation. It's not the same as micromanaging the way police conduct individual operations.

If the Minister of Police is not actively berating the Police for how they have behaved then she is condoning it, and they are likely to carry on doing as they wish.

You don't know what she's said to the police in private and, really, I'd expect most communications between her and the police to be in private rather than via press release.

And crocos, you think the Minster of Police just comes up with ideas all by his/her self and never consults other members of the party, in particular the one who ultimately decides whether she keeps or loses her job after discussing said ideas to the media and public? Get real.

So you think the National party caucus gets around the table to have a meeting about what they're going to do about these darn old people who have an interest in euthanasia and how they can set up a police sting to get more information on said old people? Get real.

[Lightspeed]

You think that the only communication that occurs is at a caucus table? How naive are you?

[CCS]

Well I didn't say that, but nice try anyway.

[Lightspeed]

Either you did or you didn't. In either case this critique is invalid:

So you think the National party caucus gets around the table to have a meeting about what they're going to do about these darn old people who have an interest in euthanasia and how they can set up a police sting to get more information on said old people? Get real.

You're doing your usual "this extreme can't be true, therefore you're wrong" bullshit.

[CCS]

I was deliberately blowing things out of proportion in the same way DrTitus did to demonstrate how ridiculous his argument was.

But I was still not suggesting that communication only takes part around a caucus table. There was no only.

But there's old lolspeed trying once again to muddy an argument with semantics.

Get a new angle, guy.

[Lightspeed]

Right, so all we can do is swing between the government having completely control over the police, or the government being completely hands off.

Just the usual wah-wah noise to distract from the reality that we're under a government that leans towards authoritarian behaviour. Clearly the government doesn't mean to act in this way, I'm sure.

[Ab]

From a distance it appears to me that Wellington police in particular have taken what might be described as an extremely zealous approach to matters of social policy rather than the application of the law.

eg.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8302...nay-place-bars

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Right, so all we can do is swing between the government having completely control over the police, or the government being completely hands off.

It is perfectly acceptable for the government to claim that they will be "tough on crime", and fight a "war on meth", but actually dictate what the Police can and can't do with their powers? Don't be ridiculous, they're only the government!

CCS also expects that the Minister's correspondence would be in private, even though he also believes that she does not have any need to communicate with them at all, since that would be "micro-managing". But he also acknowledges they do communicate, but not strictly around a caucus table, and not about how they actually do their policing. They just... communicate.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Right, so all we can do is swing between the government having completely control over the police, or the government being completely hands off.

No, I actually haven't said that either. You need to stop putting words in my mouth.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

It is perfectly acceptable for the government to claim that they will be "tough on crime", and fight a "war on meth", but actually dictate what the Police can and can't do with their powers? Don't be ridiculous, they're only the government!

The way that governments are tough on crime is through legislation, not through instructing police how to enforce legislation. Do you understand the difference?

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

CCS also expects that the Minister's correspondence would be in private, even though he also believes that she does not have any need to communicate with them at all, since that would be "micro-managing".

Obviously the police minister corresponds with the police. But that doesn't mean they instruct the police on how to do their jobs. Do you understand that? Or are you just being silly?

[CCS]

To cut through the bullshit -

DrTitus, are you saying that the police carried out the traffic stop under the direction of Judith Collins and/or the National Party Caucus?

[Lightspeed]

Judith Collins earlier this year said police would focus on burglaries. So when she said this, to compel the police to comply with this policy, new legislation was passed?

Then there's Maurice Williamson. But he got caught and I'm sure all political wrong doing is immediately identified and acted upon, so I guess that's not relevant.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Judith Collins earlier this year said police would focus on burglaries. So when she said this, to compel the police to comply with this policy, new legislation was passed?

Did Judith Collins order the police to focus on burglaries? Did she instruct them how to focus on burglaries in an operational sense?

[Lightspeed]

I can't tell:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11653769
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11701517

Maybe Judith communicates with the police only via media spokespersons?

A spokeswoman for Police Minister Judith Collins said resolution rates needed to improve, and police had the resources to make that happen.

No mention of legislation though.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Maybe Judith communicates with the police only via media spokespersons?

You're being silly again.

No mention of legislation though.

I'm getting tired of your constant semantic games, so I'll leave you with these excerpts from the Policing Act:

Subpart 5—Command and control of Police
30 Command and control

(1) Every Police employee must obey and be guided by—
(a) general instructions; and
(b) the Commissioner’s circulars; and
(c) any applicable local orders.

(2) Every Police employee must obey the lawful commands of a supervisor.

(3) In the absence of a supervisor, the supervisor’s authority and responsibility devolves on—
(a) the Police employee available who is next in level of position; and
(b) in the case of equality, the longest serving Police employee.

(4) No Police employee may, when exercising any power or carrying out any function or duty, act under the direction, command, or control of—
(a) a Minister of the Crown; or
(b) a person who is not authorised by or under this Act or any other enactment or rule of law to direct, command, or control the actions of a Police employee.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to a Police employee outside New Zealand who—
(a) is part of an overseas operation within the meaning of section 86; or
(b) is an employee within the meaning of section 91.

16 Responsibilities and independence of Commissioner

(1) The Commissioner is responsible to the Minister for—
(a) carrying out the functions and duties of the Police; and
(b) the general conduct of the Police; and
(c) the effective, efficient, and economical management of the Police; and
(d) tendering advice to the Minister and other Ministers of the Crown; and
(e) giving effect to any lawful ministerial directions.

(2) The Commissioner is not responsible to, and must act independently of, any Minister of the Crown (including any person acting on the instruction of a Minister of the Crown) regarding—
(a) the maintenance of order in relation to any individual or group of individuals; and
(b) the enforcement of the law in relation to any individual or group of individuals; and
(c) the investigation and prosecution of offences; and
(d) decisions about individual Police employees.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by CCS

To cut through the bullshit -

DrTitus, are you saying that the police carried out the traffic stop under the direction of Judith Collins and/or the National Party Caucus?

No, I'm not saying that there was a specific order, signed by Judith Collins, for this specific traffic stop. I'm saying that thanks to National's hard-on for surveillance and playing spy games for the US, they've ushered in a culture of "by any means necessary". The National government introduced mass surveillance and used weasle words and bullshit excuses to justify it. By their example and lead we have the Police beginning to act in a similar fashion. This is the "slippery slope" that we have been warned about. The behaviour by the Police in this instance is a perfect "culture fit" for the current government.

Let's see what happens as a result. Based on past behaviour, I expect the media will either not speak of it again, or present the whole affair in the best possible light and assure us it has been dealt with internally. Behind the scenes, high fives and witchy cackles. Easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Government departments and agencies get their lead from the top. If we had a government that instead had a hard-on for respecting human rights and freedoms, and communicated this sort of attitude to the Police, I doubt we'd see these types of abuses of power.

[Lightspeed]

Nah, mate. All power is innocent. Well, as long as those holding power are those you support.

It's just silly to think people who hold their positions due to political appointment would pay heed to those doing the appointing.

[reac]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

Behind the scenes, high fives and witchy cackles.

New thread title.

[Lightspeed]

Cops in Whangarei are doing their thing.

Northland police apologise, IPCA making enquiries after traumatised teens held at gunpoint in Whangārei park

The pair - a 17-year-old boy and his 16-year-old girlfriend - were in Mander Park in Whangārei on Tuesday, November 17, when officers swarmed the area in search of an armed offender who had shot at police that morning.

But why, why don't they trust the police, just do as they ask?

Police officer wiped pepper spray in woman's eye in unlawful search in Whangārei

The door was open, so they went inside. The woman who lived there told police to leave, but they didn’t, a report, released on Thursday, said.

They incorrectly warned her she was obstructing them and could be arrested, it said.

An officer attempted to restrain the woman, who resisted. During the arrest the officer sprayed pepper-spray onto her hand and wiped it across the woman’s eyes, the report said.

The woman was then taken outside and put into the back of a police car.

Oh, right.

[crocos]

Another typical no-prosecution NZ police BS thing.

I'm sure there are well meaning cops, but there's also way too many utter fucking cowboys with too much power and half of f-all accountability. It's clearly a cultural issue as much as it is a recruiting issue that this kind of thing is happening, and the policy of no prosecution only reinforces it.

[Ab]

shit man, you can't expect the police and security services to have the time to do EVERYTHING, I mean there are all those radical Islamists and Maori activists to surveil.

[crocos]

Now you're talking about the incompetence at the SIS, which is a whole other racist shit-show.

[Lightspeed]

Oh, you mean these guys:

SIS failed to report 'NZ’s Fritzl' Ronald Van Der Plaat

NZSIS boss Rebecca Kitteridge insists Muslims not spied on, Royal Commission report suggests otherwise

The ones who want a backdoor in all our secure communications:

Govt de-encryption move puts client data at risk