Random Thoughts II

[Haydos]

Originally Posted by MadMax

^ that's just a cop-out, something telecom like to do. instead of employing people like they used to do and provide people with a job to be proud of, they take on an employment agency who then employs rules such as not being able to converse with workmates when you're on the job. citel employees end up having to throw each other balls of secret notes scribbled on note paper.

Why would you employ 1500 New Zealanders to do a job for 15 million a year when you can employ a factory in China to produce to the same standards, for half the price and half the time.

It makes business sense, especially when you consider they're hit with a high overall tax rate, ontop of the 12.5% GST they have to charge their clients, not to mention the fact that their employees are ridiculously protected in NZ, despite them potentially being absolutely useless and destructive in what they do.

[JP]

I'm sure Haydos would think it'd be great if workers in NZ shared the same level of protection as those in China. It'd be better for all of us right? Gotta let the wealthy create more wealth. A fair wage, is what people are willing to pay you right?

[Haydos]

You make it sound like poor workers aren't overly protected, which is the attitude of someone who is a poor worker.

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by MadMax

^ that's just a cop-out, something telecom like to do. instead of employing people like they used to do and provide people with a job to be proud of, they take on an employment agency who then employs rules such as not being able to converse with workmates when you're on the job. citel employees end up having to throw each other balls of secret notes scribbled on note paper.

its not a cop out, its business sense. if i was in a managers position and i could cut my costs by half by outsourcing why the fuck wouldnt I? especially if my rivals are doing it ebcause it would mean i am going under anyway.

makes me glad that what i do cant be farmed out to some chinese guy for 4 bucks an hour.

[Redneck]

Originally Posted by leadinjector

makes me glad that what i do cant be farmed out to some chinese guy for 4 bucks an hour.

Famous last words

[Spink]

I've never seen a robot wear a t-shirt

[Solvent]

I don't want to be seen as endorsing MadMax's position, and I'm certainly not anti-globalisation.

But, the debate is more nuanced than simply 'eliminate labour regulation and things will be great'. There's plenty of literature out there indicating the importance of many other factors in the decision of where to locate capital, without denying the importance of low cost. These include limited social inequality, public safety, skilled labour, little poverty, social and political stability and democracy amongst others. Some (Kuhnle at least off the top of my head) argue there's no empirical evidence that the elimination of social protection and the increased insecurity of the workforce leads to more competitive labour and economic growth.

Others (again, that I can recall immediately, Thakur, Keen, Horvath & Cerra) argue relatively high levels of social security encourage risk taking economic behaviour. People are less likely to engage in potentially risk prone entrepreneurship and labour sector transferral if social security is heavily eroded.

No one can deny that low cost certainly underpins economic decision making, but there is balance to the notion that we should just start throwing out social protection and labour protection.

[Haydos]

It starts from the mothers who cut out coupons religiously and ensure they go to three different supermarkets to get the overall lowest value right through to us Tech Nerds who will shop around until we find the best price for what we want, right through to big business who are entitled to do the same thing.

You can't cure people wanting to save cost.

[MadMax]

^ www.ascent.co.nz

service is the cure

[Haydos]

Bollocks, for every person you find who has remained loyal to ascent, I'll find you several who simply go to PriceSpy and find the cheapest deal going.

Until you stop people wanting the cheapest possible make of things, you won't stop globalisation.

[Solvent]

Originally Posted by Haydos

You can't cure people wanting to save cost.

Of course not.

But at the same time, businesses won't necessarily want to invest in an environment where there is little social investment and unskilled labour as a result, high social inequality, social instability and high crime levels. These factors generate an instable political situation that threatens their property rights.

Jamaica is currently wrestling with terrible social instability and political violence and is suffering from the withdrawl of international capital as we speak.

Eroding social investment and security won't necessarily guarantee a favourable investment climate, there's a balance to be struck.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Haydos

Why would you employ 1500 New Zealanders to do a job for 15 million a year when you can employ a factory in China to produce to the same standards, for half the price and half the time.

Because then $7.5 million goes overseas and out of our economy, and there are 1500 less jobs for NZers, meaning they are out of work and can not participate in our economy.

Immediate gain versus long term interests...

Try to look at the big picture, not just think about what is best only for yourself.

[Haydos]

God you're a tit.

Do you think businesses, who have stock holders, who are looking for profit, are thinking about the greater good of the economy? Especially when they feel that they're being screwed due to higher business operation costs.

Take Telecom, who have outsourced how many roles and are talking about another 150? Or Fisher and Paykel.

Do they do this because they are greedy? Maybe in part, but many businesses simply cannot compete by manufacturing in New Zealand, some of them have to go overseas just to compete in the New Zealand market.

Why? Because New Zealanders are looking for bargains.
Why? Because New Zealanders have low incomes compared to the rest of the OECD.

[xor]

Originally Posted by Haydos

God you're a tit.

Do you think businesses, who have stock holders, who are looking for profit, are thinking about the greater good of the economy? Especially when they feel that they're being screwed due to higher business operation costs.

Take Telecom, who have outsourced how many roles and are talking about another 150? Or Fisher and Paykel.

Do they do this because they are greedy? Maybe in part, but many businesses simply cannot compete by manufacturing in New Zealand, some of them have to go overseas just to compete in the New Zealand market.

Why? Because New Zealanders are looking for bargains.
Why? Because New Zealanders have low incomes compared to the rest of the OECD.

Yes but do you see his point?
In comparison with the rest of the world I think nz has other advantages over other countries e.g. quality of life

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Haydos

Bollocks, for every person you find who has remained loyal to ascent, I'll find you several who simply go to PriceSpy and find the cheapest deal going.

Until you stop people wanting the cheapest possible make of things, you won't stop globalisation.

i'd prefer to own a business that provided good service & local employment to one that could provide a cheaper price. 7/14 aint bad. fuck being an asshole that doesn't take care of those that are feeding you.

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally Posted by Haydos

Bollocks, for every person you find who has remained loyal to ascent, I'll find you several who simply go to PriceSpy and find the cheapest deal going.

Probably true but there is one point you seem to be missing - NONE of the stores on Pricespy are external to NZ.

Until you stop people wanting the cheapest possible make of things, you won't stop globalisation.

What will stop globalisation will be globalisation - same as it did last time.

[Reet]

Woo hah. With no warning or preparation and fuck-all support it looks like I'm having to go 100%, no 'it's okay occasionally as long as I don't get another habit', clean.

I give it a couple of weeks before I jump off the roof.

[Lightspeed]

Huh, wah?

[Draco T Bastard]

US 12-year-old falls 55m down chimney, unhurt

...though both her legs were broken.

Obviously, the NZHerald has a vastly different meaning to the word unhurt than everybody else.

[Sp0nge]

Originally Posted by Reet..translated by Sp0nge

Holy Fuck Batman!

Without warning,
nor time to contemplate my predicament...
and with fuck-all support:
it looks like I'm having to go 100% clean.

that means cold turkey
absolutely NO excuses
such as "it's okay occasionally as long as I don't get another habit"

I give it a couple of weeks before I cant take it any more
and either take them drugs
or learn to get hard.

[CCS]

You call that a translation?

[crocos]

Originally Posted by Draco T Bastard

US 12-year-old falls 55m down chimney, unhurt

Obviously, the NZHerald has a vastly different meaning to the word unhurt than everybody else.

She wasn't hurt by the fall down the chimney: It was the sudden stop at the end.

[Sp0nge]

Originally Posted by CCS

You call that a translation?

yes.
from one form to another.

the vector version is still a work in progress

[Jonas Undrawing]

Originally Posted by crocos

She wasn't hurt by the fall down the chimney: It was the sudden stop at the end.

Maybe they were trying to make this their "happy story". Girl falls down chimney, and a neighbour in a building down the street a ways apparently said that mystical soot fairies made the fall safe and unhurty.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by crocos

She wasn't hurt by the fall down the chimney: It was the sudden stop at the end.

They must have heard you crocos as they have now changed the title of the story.

[MadMax]

buzzy. just found that my washing machine will resume from whatever it was doing after pulling out the power overnight

[MadMax]

d{>.<}b

beware the reverse b

[Ab]

Whenever I hear a catchy pop song, one which stands out from the rest of the disposable record-company formula shit and which makes me go "hmm, that's a well-written bit of pop music", it inevitably turns out to have been written by Cathy Dennis.

[Nightcrawler]

It's really pissing down in Auckland, and has been for hours now
I was all prepared to go to uni, but I really can't see myself walking through pouring rain and hefty wind to get to my bus (10-15 minute walk), and then sit around soaking wet for hours

[Helious]

I felt that way.. Had to leave the house at 6:40am.. was bucketing down around 6:30am. By the time I stepped out of the house it had stopped and I'm at work now and it still hasn't resumed.

I owned the rain this morning.

[Cyberbob]

I'm looking at going to Pacific Island #1251™ around June next year, and I can't decide which one.

What kind of experiences have people had with Vanuatu? Any places you'd recommend?

[Fx.]

i loved fiji, jin tells me raro is awesome tho!

holy god four weeks drags on when its your notice till job finishes and you leave the country D:

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by Ab

Whenever I hear a catchy pop song, one which stands out from the rest of the disposable record-company formula shit and which makes me go "hmm, that's a well-written bit of pop music", it inevitably turns out to have been written by Cathy Dennis.

'Toxic'.. 'Can't Get You Out of My Head'.. more recently 'I Kissed a Girl'

Holy crap you're right

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by Fx.

i loved fiji, jin tells me raro is awesome tho!

holy god four weeks drags on when its your notice till job finishes and you leave the country D:

I liked Fiji too, but it seems a little cookie cutter and it's the only pacific island i've ever been to... i want something better/different. Might make a topic?

[Fx.]

depends what you do, we spent a lot of time wandering around the proper towns / cities rather than just hanging out in the tourist areas / resort

was intersting

edit: but yeah if you've already been there may as well test somewhere else

[DrTiTus]

Woohoo my piston and cylinder head kit for my scooter arrived finally.

Time to crank up the old beast again, for some 50cc twist-and-go action!

[crocos]

http://tehlulz0r.w00tah.org/

You may want to use earphones if at work.

[Draco T Bastard]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/...ectid=10525140

"I fail to understand why God was so cruel to us," he said.

/facepalm

[ChaosWulf]

Didn't get your own birthday thread this year, Nahaz - but happy birthday nonetheless. Wherever you are

[blynk]

oh no. 2000. Everything is going to crash and burn.