Welcome to the Panopticon, we got fun and games

[Pimp-X]

Originally Posted by CCS

excuse me he has wikipedia links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_five

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

He will enjoy a better standard of living than he could acheive under other outcomes; despite this he will spend the next three years evading admitting this is so.

I imagine I will get by just fine. I am a smart white male confident at navigating our socio-cultural landscape. The thing is, unlike GT who by his own admission would like to import rape slaves, I'm not just concerned about myself, nor I am just concerned about the next three years.

I'm concerned about those on a median wage or less, I'm concerned about our medium to long term future, I'm concerned about our freedom and ability to make our own choices, to set our own path for our society rather than having terms dictated to us because we signed up to some agreement for a few bucks and some protection.

[Rince]

Originally Posted by Pimp-X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_five

that was highly informative (well, more so than MM's links)

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Pimp-X

I could walk you toward a dozen core routers and switches within the exchange I work in that do not implement these features.

I can also walk you to a handful that do, whose mirroring features are used for network diagnosis and do not get left in this mode because they tend to leak

For sure, but the functionality is there as it's a requirement if you want your product sold in the land of freedom.

If you want more information, look up manuals of how it's implemented - the info is all there.

[Pimp-X]

Originally Posted by MadMax

For sure, but the functionality is there as it's a requirement if you want your product sold in the land of freedom.

If you want more information, look up manuals of how it's implemented - the info is all there.

I think you might be new to this.

[Ab]

If I were greenwald/Assange/Snowden I'd be feeling pretty sheepish today. That was embarrassing.

[StN]

.

[^BITES^]

Originally Posted by MadMax

For sure, but the functionality is there as it's a requirement if you want your product sold in the land of freedom.

If you want more information, look up manuals of how it's implemented - the info is all there.

Agreeing with Pimp-X and someone who has worked in the industry with these appliances and requirements including implementation, management of user data @ Layer 7 and encryption behavioral traffic management/inspection/sniffing at up to 2gbps realtime and historic. In addition to assisting police in various investigations.

You really are talking a whole lot of shit you seem to have no clue about.

Remember kids, network+ does not an expert make..

Originally Posted by Ab

If I were greenwald/Assange/Snowden I'd be feeling pretty sheepish today. That was embarrassing.

The whole thing was embarassing .. I watched (read as "tried not to doze off") parts of it .. and my wife watched all of it ... 5 minutes from the end she said "I'm waiting for the Dotcom bit" ... speaker said "yeah cheers ... /generic verbal pander" ... and it ended .... my wife was somewhat confused as to where the meat was ... because there wasn't any.

She would like a refund for her two hours please.

All this hub-bub for shit we already know .. and for the most part support (to an extent, as someone who has assisted in getting pedos behind bars) ... what a bunch of bullshit. That email reads like something I would find on a memory card in Metal Gear solid .... bad.

I personally don't vote (my rule is don't vote, can't complain... So I rarely do about government related stuff) ... but after this bollocks I've thought about actually registering and going national/national (first time in nearly 15 years...).

[Ab]

My gut feeling on this, without having looked in deep detail at Snowden's claims, is that the NSA and its partner agencies - including NZ's GCSB - want to eavesdrop on everyone and everything. If this is a surprise to anyone, hello and welcome to the world you must be new here.

Snowden's allegations if true either directly contradict or reveal as deliberate obfuscations many statements made by senior NZ public servants and governmental officers up to and including the Prime Minister. That's serious shit. That's shit that deserves serious investigation. That's shit that strikes at the heart of our democracy and our social contract as citizens with the government.

Unfortunately the medium via which Snowden et al chose to reveal this serious stuff was to have it written in bright fluoro Comic Sans on a tight t-shirt worn by a stripper who popped out of a large pink box in a shower of fake $1 notes as a strobe light flashed and the PA pumped "Get Low" by Lil Jon and the East Side Boyz.

NICE WORK GENIOUSES.

[Omegakai]

Originally Posted by Ab

Rant.

soooo .....shoot the messenger?



Ps. I pretty much agree with your whole rant, however this would be all a non issue if the government had released stuff like months ago when it first came up instead of the 11th hour.

[Ab]

Shoot the MEDIUM.

Jesus to fuck, the allegations are important. They deserve to made in the glare of public attention, and hard un-dodgeable questions need to be asked of the Government in Parliament by the Opposition where the questions and responses will become a matter of formal public record.

But that's not going to happen is it? Because the dramatis personae sat on this shit until after Parliament had dissolved - THERE'S NO FUCKING PARLIAMENT IN WHICH THIS GOVERNMENT CAN BE QUESTIONED - and waited until 5 days before a General Election before saying anything - what's that? the media are talking about something else right now? - and then made their allegations at a Kim Dotcom vanity event doubling as an advertisement for Mega. They couldn't have made people give LESS OF A SHIT about the claims if they'd been paid by the NSA to script it.

[^BITES^]

Originally Posted by Omegakai

Ps. I pretty much agree with your whole rant, however this would be all a non issue if the government had released stuff like months ago when it first came up instead of the 11th hour.

Yeah but the counter claim that "PM saw this person arrive from Brazil and then released them" is a bunch of trumped up lolcakes.

Same with the above person sitting there for 5 minutes explaining how there was no benefit to him to do this .. and its not about the election, just made him sound dodgier .. and dodgier.

[Spoon1]

I take it all to mean "There is no mass surveillance of NZers by the GSCB (because we leave the 'Five Eyes Defeat' box unticked when we use XKEYSCORE)."

So while I haven't checked what he said exactly, my gut is that Key will be able to "defend" himself by saying he didn't say the information wasn't collected...

I just want some fucking honest truth.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Ab

My gut feeling on this, without having looked in deep detail at Snowden's claims, is that the NSA and its partner agencies - including NZ's GCSB - want to eavesdrop on everyone and everything. If this is a surprise to anyone, hello and welcome to the world you must be new here.

Snowden's allegations if true either directly contradict or reveal as deliberate obfuscations many statements made by senior NZ public servants and governmental officers up to and including the Prime Minister. That's serious shit. That's shit that deserves serious investigation. That's shit that strikes at the heart of our democracy and our social contract as citizens with the government.

Unfortunately the medium via which Snowden et al chose to reveal this serious stuff was to have it written in bright fluoro Comic Sans on a tight t-shirt worn by a stripper who popped out of a large pink box in a shower of fake $1 notes as a strobe light flashed and the PA pumped "Get Low" by Lil Jon and the East Side Boyz.

NICE WORK GENIOUSES.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Spoon1

So while I haven't checked what he said exactly, my gut is that Key will be able to "defend" himself by saying he didn't say the information wasn't collected...

Prime Minister John Key has challenged Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald to front up with evidence of their claims of mass surveillance and NSA bases in New Zealand. . .

He said there was no mass surveillance or data collection involved. . .

He said he had also checked overnight with the head of the GCSB Ian Fletcher and former head of the GCSB Bruce Ferguson and both had told him there were no NSA bases in New Zealand.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11325598

[Pimp-X]

Is it just me, or has The Media [TM] glossed over what Legal Intercept is? How it's initiated? How the data is only collected after a warrant is served? How it's done at the ISP level? How it's DIFFICULT AS FUCK to keep people reconciled with IP addresses, particularly of course in a dynamic assignment environment?

How has this turned into "ZOMG the gummnt is rubbing one out over my selfies because they're surveillinzing me 24/7 with fiber taps on the NZ cable" freakin' nutbar session? "NZ cable". My favorite. Because there's only one cable the internet goes down in NZ.

And what the fuck that has to do with Waihopai... Some motherfuckers are watching too much CSI.

Like I said, buying stocks in tin foil.

[^BITES^]

Originally Posted by Pimp-X

Is it just me, or has The Media [TM] glossed over what Legal Intercept is? How it's initiated? How the data is only collected after a warrant is served? How it's done at the ISP level? How it's DIFFICULT AS FUCK to keep people reconciled with IP addresses, particularly of course in a dynamic assignment environment?

This .. every request (historic radius records only ... ever) required a warrant .. hell we used to receive them via fax ... lol NZ.

The queries to John key in the above press conference was just as laughable ... "what about the database they enter the email address and see all their emails".

What ... the ... fuck ... seriously? Is that an actual question?...

[Juju]

Originally Posted by MadMax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communi...nforcement_Act - for routers, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_mirroring for switches

I'm still lolling at the suggestion that port mirroring is being used so the gubbernants can plug into the interkittens and watch our reddittubes.

[crocos]

Originally Posted by pxpx

So your logic is, wait until there's a terrorist attack THEN try and stop them from entering the country? Interdasting.

Better approach: Stop giving them reasons to BE terrorists.

[Pimp-X]

Originally Posted by crocos

Better approach: Stop giving them reasons to BE terrorists.

Example: No excise on alcohol.

[StN]

Originally Posted by crocos

Better approach: Stop giving them reasons to BE terrorists.

Exactly my thought when the lift stopped and I saw that EQC had closed up their doors last week in light of the Ashburton drama. If you treat your customers as you would expect to be treated...

[xor]

Originally Posted by Ab

Once again, xor loves the cock.

What a leftfield comment to make, I haven't even been involved in this bs of a thread.

[Lightspeed]

This thread is the Frankenstein's monster of threads, patched together from the discarded remains of other threads. Maybe you were involved in one of those?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by xor

What a leftfield comment to make, I haven't even been involved in this bs of a thread.

Pretty sure he's referring to a previous post where Ab stated how easily he could fake an email or comment whereby he could claim you loved the cock.

I don't think he actually believes you love the cock.

[crocos]

Pimp-X loves the cock. Everyone knows that xor is just Ab's private toy, and Ab doesn't like to share.

[guest]

Originally Posted by Ab

The "5 Eyes" intelligence-sharing partnership of the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ was set up under the 1935-1949 Labour Government, and was happily maintained by the 1957-60, 1972-75, 1984-90 and 1999-2008 Labour Governments.

But now it's bad because John Key.

He's a secret Jew lizard illuminatus you know.

You need to put politics aside and focus on the actual issue being discussed.
This isn't about Labour, National or the Internet Party.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by xor

What a leftfield comment to make, I haven't even been involved in this bs of a thread.

see #hagerbook





also, just admit you love the cock.

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by Pimp-X

Is it just me, or has The Media [TM] glossed over what Legal Intercept is? How it's initiated? How the data is only collected after a warrant is served? How it's done at the ISP level? How it's DIFFICULT AS FUCK to keep people reconciled with IP addresses, particularly of course in a dynamic assignment environment?

How has this turned into "ZOMG the gummnt is rubbing one out over my selfies because they're surveillinzing me 24/7 with fiber taps on the NZ cable" freakin' nutbar session? "NZ cable". My favorite. Because there's only one cable the internet goes down in NZ.

And what the fuck that has to do with Waihopai... Some motherfuckers are watching too much CSI.

Like I said, buying stocks in tin foil.

Were the company/companies that you worked for ever served by the GCSB? Or are you referring to police/SIS or something else.

[Farmer Joe]

Originally Posted by Ab

Shoot the MEDIUM.
But that's not going to happen is it? Because the dramatis personae sat on this shit until after Parliament had dissolved - THERE'S NO FUCKING PARLIAMENT IN WHICH THIS GOVERNMENT CAN BE QUESTIONED - and waited until 5 days before a General Election before saying anything - what's that? the media are talking about something else right now? - and then made their allegations at a Kim Dotcom vanity event doubling as an advertisement for Mega. They couldn't have made people give LESS OF A SHIT about the claims if they'd been paid by the NSA to script it.

Yup, this. It's all I could think about while watching last night. I was like FUUUUUUUUUCK you stupid fucks why here & now? arg.

I'm predicting all the shit will come out post-election when no one has any fucks to give.

[Ab]

Russell Brown:

Part way through last night, the Moment of Truth event at the Auckland Town Hall felt history-making. Journalist Glenn Greenwald had presented documentary evidence -- not a lot, and it was more blasted Powerpoint slides, but easily enough to be troubling -- that the Prime Minister is lying when he guarantees New Zealanders are not subject to mass surveillance from their own intelligence agency, and was lying when he said last year's GCSB bill did not validate such an activity.

And NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, appearing on a video link from Russia, had borne witness to the same, eloquently outlining the basic democratic issues in the fact that we, the electors, do not make that choice. He was clear, calm and compelling.

So how did it end in a rancorous, poorly-handled press conference in which it seemed that the bearers of witness were the ones on trial?

The credit and the blame must go to Kim Dotcom. No one else would have had the vision to conceive (and fund) such an event. The Town Hall was packed, with hundreds turned away. It was streamed to thousands more, in New Zealand and around the world, and live-blogged by The Guardian. Bringing together Snowden, Greenwald and Julian Assange was not so much ambitious as utterly audacious.

And no one else could be such a dumbass as to undermine the event in the way Kim Dotcom did.

http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Juju

I'm still lolling at the suggestion that port mirroring is being used so the gubbernants can plug into the interkittens and watch our reddittubes.

Ok so fair call and I'll happily take the education. My point was there are mechanisms built into the equipment that allow surveillance - it's in the product manuals to read up on.

[MadMax]

The TICSA was passed in November 2013 and relates to obligations on New Zealand’s telecommunications network operators in two key areas – interception capabilities and network security.
Part 2 of the TICSA relates to a network operator’s obligation to ensure public telecommunications networks are ‘intercept capable’ to enable authorised government agencies to conduct lawful interception in accordance with their legal authority.

http://www.ncsc.govt.nz/assets/TICSA...-Operators.pdf

[crocos]

"Intercept capable" is quite different from "government can intercept everything", even if the 'only' thing you wanted to collect was metadata.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by StN

If you treat your customers as you would expect to be treated...

This is christian dogma and I don't think it's correct. I prefer an alternative like "treat others as they want to be treated". If you try very hard you can twist the former to mean the latter by abstraction but the two concepts are in reality completely different.

Both are very well meaning ideals.

[^BITES^]

Originally Posted by crocos

"Intercept capable" is quite different from "government can intercept everything", even if the 'only' thing you wanted to collect was metadata.

Even that is a massive understatement really, but well put.

Unfortunately reading "nzherald" and "Stuff" comments last night firmly cemented my view that most people are really ... really not paying attention, stupid as shit or I should invest more in the tinfoil hat business.

[pxpx]

[^BITES^]

/waits for tinfoil mad hatters to refute with craziness.

[Spink]

JOHN KEY APPOINTED HER SO SHE'S JUST A SHADOW PUPPET FOR THE CLONE ARMY OF PEOPLE REALLY INTERESTED IN READING THE CHAIN LETTERS YOUR NANA SENT.

[pxpx]

Farrar adds:

"Ms Gwyn is a former Deputy Solictor-General and Deputy Secretary of Justice. Her appointment was made after consultation with Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee which includes Russel Norman and David Cunliffe.

And in case anyone thinks she is some ideological friend of the current Government, I would point out she was a member of the Young Socialists and was involved with the Nicaragua Solidarity Committee, which included Nicky Hager and Keith Locke! I trust Ms Gwyn when she says she has not identified any indiscriminate interception of New Zealanders’ data."

[adonis]

Originally Posted by Ab

My gut feeling on this, without having looked in deep detail at Snowden's claims, is that the NSA and its partner agencies - including NZ's GCSB - want to eavesdrop on everyone and everything. If this is a surprise to anyone, hello and welcome to the world you must be new here.

Snowden's allegations if true either directly contradict or reveal as deliberate obfuscations many statements made by senior NZ public servants and governmental officers up to and including the Prime Minister. That's serious shit. That's shit that deserves serious investigation. That's shit that strikes at the heart of our democracy and our social contract as citizens with the government.

Unfortunately the medium via which Snowden et al chose to reveal this serious stuff was to have it written in bright fluoro Comic Sans on a tight t-shirt worn by a stripper who popped out of a large pink box in a shower of fake $1 notes as a strobe light flashed and the PA pumped "Get Low" by Lil Jon and the East Side Boyz.

NICE WORK GENIOUSES.

I agree with this, though as per usual, I don't really give a rats arse about how it was presented.

I'll add though, that it isn't just about the evidence provided by Snowden, this is the logical conclusion of what the Law society and other law experts around the country were warning of when the GCSB legislation was passed, if they were to be believed.

I really don't see how this can be brushed aside, too much of it fits together. If it's true JK presided over a huge breach of civil liberties just as these legal experts were warning, and is either a liar or he's incompetent.

Actually, and I can't believe I'm saying this, where's cyc when you need him?