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Old 7th February 2019, 15:46     #81
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
You know, this whole issue has been weighing on me for a week or so. I was waiting for a bus the other day and found myself at the bus stop with a, um, woman of indeterminate age and significant boganity with a little girl maybe 3 or 4? in your standard little-girl Disney princess outfit. She was a charming little thing, big smile on her face, interested in stuff that was going on around the bus stop. I had my headphones in listening to a podcast and I was kinda powerwalking up and down the footpath (gotta get those steps in wherever you can, right). Little girl comes up to me and starts talking, I pull out my headphones and she's just babbling all the things a chatty little girl would babble - "what's your name? what are you doing? are you waiting for a bus? I like the yellow buses" and I was doing my best to not give off Stranger Danger vibes. She seemed a pretty cool child. Talkative, articulate for her age, the sorts of things that tick boxes for anyone who has tried to raise a kid. I walked with her the 20 metres back to where her (mother?) was standing.

And the chain-smoking woman in the wraparound shades just fucking unloaded on the girl. Just like, "for fuck's sake you little shit, I told you to sit down, don't fucking move, I'm fucking sick of you and sick of your shit!" - to a four-year-old! The little girl, previously chatty and happy just wilted and sat down in the dust in her ragged little Princess Elsa costume and I was going what the hell.

And not only did I not do shit, I didn't even remotely feel like I had the ability to do shit. If the woman had physically bashed the little girl I would have intervened in a flash, called the cops, been the good guy. But this bogan bitch stomped a little girl's mind right in front of me and I didn't feel like I could do anything about it.
In Western society this is about the other half of trauma therapy (the first half being sexual violence.) A single instance of what you describe isn't going to have much impact on anyone. Like being slapped upside the head, hurtful but no lasting damage. But when this is your day-to-day, it's a whole other thing. Physical violence may be involved, but it's unnecessary. The psychological violence is enough to crush a person, as you so clearly described. A heartbreaking encounter.

In my experience the only current effective way to counter such behaviour in public circumstances is to offer something different. Perhaps say something you would say to your daughter in response to something they're happy about. Give the same kind of smile.

It requires some bravery, but you can't accept the projection that it's always bad for adults and children to interact in public.

Of course, it would be nice if you could call someone out more directly, as you would with a physical attack. But one step at a time, we've already come a long way. 150 years ago you could still openly visit child brothels, unless you were too important, in which case you wouldn't need to.
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Old 8th February 2019, 01:15     #82
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
In my experience the only current effective way to counter such behaviour in public circumstances is to offer something different. Perhaps say something you would say to your daughter in response to something they're happy about. Give the same kind of smile.
yeah man, I did all that. Babbled away like a Play School presenter.

Some people don't deserve kids.
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Old 8th February 2019, 09:28     #83
[Malks] Pixie
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
If you want to appeal to an authority on what words mean, I hear this is a good one
Quote:
The unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Malks] Pixie
...but let me get this clear, you are arguing that the WHO should not be considered an authority, or even knowledgeable in regards to violence?
So lets try this again - you are arguing that the WHO isn't an authority on violence? Because that's the only way that my citing the WHO definition of violence can be considered an appeal to authority.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:59     #84
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I do not acknowledge the authority of the WHO to define moral terms because, as a wise man once said, that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy.
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Old 8th February 2019, 12:20     #85
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy.
chuckled @ this
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Old 19th February 2019, 17:59     #86
fixed_truth
 
Chocolate maker Whittaker's faces backlash over its take on the baby gender reveal

Well it's more an anatomy reveal than a gender reveal. And while they do perpetuate outdated gender norms maybe choose your battle. Most kiwi's still don't seem to differentiate between sex and gender and will just see this as people getting offended over chocolate colour.

Or maybe it was just a few twitter comments and stuff created a backlash against their fabricated backlash.
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Old 20th February 2019, 09:09     #87
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Chocolate maker Whittaker's faces backlash over its take on the baby gender reveal

Well it's more an anatomy reveal than a gender reveal.
Agree, They should have created penis and vagina shaped chocolate for the reveal
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Old 20th February 2019, 11:16     #88
BoyWonder
 
Next it will be Huggies and Treasures who will have to change their packaging to theyby with a vagina and theyby with a penis.

And this news just in...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/p...its-own-gender
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Old 20th February 2019, 14:36     #89
fixed_truth
 
Companies don't have to do anything, especially when nearly all people aren't bothered.

Though the blue boy pink girl thing is a bit dated really.
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Old 21st February 2019, 19:37     #90
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
#thoughtcrime

Sporting legend and gay icon Martina Navratilova pointed out that biologically male tennis players have physical advantages over female tennis players so of course she's an unperson now

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ender-comments
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Old 21st February 2019, 21:20     #91
Lightspeed
 
Non-traditional gender in traditional gender based sport seems like a contradiction to me.

It'd be interesting to see sports evolve to suit non-traditional gender.
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Old 21st February 2019, 21:30     #92
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
The IAAF (International Association of Athletics Federation) is suggesting a testosterone limit to counter such physical advantages, which may exclude some members of the OGV (original vagina) community.

Interesting and sport aren't really two words that go together for me, so I don't care what stupid rules they implement. An open class makes sense, where you can be trans/doped/handicap and the winner is the person who does the thing first/the best.
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Old 21st February 2019, 21:55     #93
fixed_truth
 
Well calling them cheats and men who "decide" to be woman was a bit tactless.

This is a bit more considerate:

Professor of physiology says transgender athletes have advantage in speed, power

Quote:
"There has been very little research into elite male to female transgender athletes.

"It hasn't been studied, but logical science will tell you someone who has three times more testosterone has the advantage physically. We need to do more research before arguing either way.

"Whether this normalising of hormone levels (and at 10 NMOL/L it is debatable whether they are normalised enough) removes the vast majority of the advantage of having been male is still an unanswered question."
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Old 22nd February 2019, 08:24     #94
fixed_truth
 
Why Jordan Peterson is a sign of our very scary times

Quote:
See, the last part of Peterson's appeal is his ability to play upon men's sense of victimisation. One of his favourite lines is that men have never been an advantaged group in society. In fact, he says, they're actively disadvantaged today.

This is catnip to the Middle-Aged and Enraged Brigade, led by supreme snowflake Piers Morgan, who jump at the chance to retweet "proof" that men are under attack. And also to the much more sinister "manosphere", which is a nasty, murky internet subculture based loosely on the belief that modern society favours women and oppresses men.

And boy do they love Peterson. Have you ever wondered why all of his 1.5m-view lecture videos are titled by what sounds like a douchey 19-year-old ("Jordan Peterson explains why nice guys finish last!!!" or "Jordan Peterson destroys feminists")? It's because these videos are enthusiastically posted by the soft manosphere, who love to use Peterson as the heavyweight "proof" they need that men really are victimised.
Get em
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Old 22nd February 2019, 10:28     #95
xor
 
Why didn't the opinion writer give any examples as to what disadvantages men receive today?? To me, Peterson has got to be the most misrepresented person in the media. He's often misquoted and his statements are taken out of context.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 10:52     #96
Nich
 
Probably no examples given because Peterson gives plenty of examples.

I think people understand what JBP is all about: "Boys need guidance in becoming men because it's better for everyone". Even this writer gets it although she starts her article saying she doesn't understand him. JBP advice seems to be targeted at men, but hey it turns out it can equally apply to women, and many women find it helpful too!

The main criticism I see leveled at him is that he doesn't balance his views, and he comes at everything as if he knows the answer. Well fuck, welcome to 2019 (MAGA country, bitch) where that is par for the course!

I trust Ben Greenfield for all nutrition, health, and fitness advice but I get off the train when he says he has proof vaccines cause autism. I don't ask that Ben Greenfield balance his views with some proof that vaccines are effective at improving society's immune system. See, what I'm doing there is filtering the good bits, and removing the shit bits.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:22     #97
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Peterson is a very well-read well-educated guy, and the problem with the thinkpieces like that stuff piece is that they are hastily bashed out by not-well-read not-well-educated hacks for clicks.

“I’ve watched a lot of YouTube videos so I know what he thinks and I will critique it in 1200 words” is like thinking you can step into the octagon with Conor McGregor because you watch a lot of ninja movies.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:46     #98
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
The main criticism I see leveled at him is that he doesn't balance his views, and he comes at everything as if he knows the answer. Well fuck, welcome to 2019 (MAGA country, bitch) where that is par for the course!
Yeah Peterson is an example of a highly intelligent person knocked off course by his personal views and religious beliefs.

Quite an entertaining critique here
https://youtu.be/4LqZdkkBDas
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:54     #99
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Peterson is a very well-read well-educated guy.
Who despite this, often spouts some bs views
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Old 22nd February 2019, 13:12     #100
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Just because someone is very knowledgeable in one area does not mean that he's knowledgeable in all others. I find Peterson's philosophical/societal writings enlightening, but I sure as fuck ain't taking diet advice from the guy.

But when he's talking about philosophy and society he knows his shit. If you haven't read Marx and Hegel and Nietszche and Jung and Kierkegaard you just don't have the intellectual background to attack Peterson on his home turf. That's when you get clickbait Stuff feelpinion pieces by social media and personal branding experts like Verity Johnson about how Jordan Peterson appeals to incels on youtube. Well, yeah, he probably does, but that's like saying The Lord of The Rings is a book about a white horse. I mean, yes there's a white horse in it but if that's what you come away with you're not really paying attention.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 13:46     #101
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Well calling them cheats and men who "decide" to be woman was a bit tactless.
MN:
Quote:
To put the argument at its most basic: a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires.

It’s insane and it’s cheating. I am happy to address a transgender woman in whatever form she prefers, but I would not be happy to compete against her. It would not be fair.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 14:43     #102
fixed_truth
 
I think the critique is that the way she's framed them as cheats choosing to be male trivialises the innateness of being transgender and implies they're men pretending to be trans to do well in women's sport.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 15:08     #103
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
But when he's talking about philosophy and society he knows his shit. If you haven't read Marx and Hegel and Nietszche and Jung and Kierkegaard you just don't have the intellectual background to attack Peterson on his home turf. That's when you get clickbait Stuff feelpinion pieces by social media and personal branding experts like Verity Johnson about how Jordan Peterson appeals to incels on youtube. Well, yeah, he probably does, but that's like saying The Lord of The Rings is a book about a white horse. I mean, yes there's a white horse in it but if that's what you come away with you're not really paying attention.
I think he's more known for his socially conservative views and anti-postmodernism and also the fact he's got a huge following because of this. So of course there's gonna be a lot of people calling him out in the context of this.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 16:16     #104
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
So why does he hold socially conservative views and hate postmodernism?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 16:22     #105
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Because stuff
Quote:
He says you need a majority of positive interactions and a few negative interactions for a good relationship. "It kinda looks like for every 11 smiles you have to deliver one slap," (the crowd laughs) "now I'm sure that will be the headline in some New Zealand newspaper" (the crowd goes wild). "Dr Peterson recommends slapping your wife and husband every 11 interactions - that's the problem with not really understanding metaphors" (more clapping).

Sure, Jordan, it's hilarious to joke about domestic violence in a country grappling with the issue.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 16:25     #106
pxpx
 
Hook, line, and sinker
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Old 22nd February 2019, 16:27     #107
xor
 
That is frightening!
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Old 22nd February 2019, 17:27     #108
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
So why does he hold socially conservative views and hate postmodernism?
In short, because he has observed that people are generally happier if societal structures and hierarchies are based on naturalistic outcomes and Judeo-Christian values.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 17:32     #109
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
That is frightening!
Jordan Peterson Threatens Everything of Value In NZ (vid)
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Old 22nd February 2019, 17:40     #110
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Yeah Peterson is an example of a highly intelligent person knocked off course by his personal views and religious beliefs.

Quite an entertaining critique here
https://youtu.be/4LqZdkkBDas
That was really good and totally not what I expected
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Old 26th February 2019, 18:52     #111
fixed_truth
 
Transgender sprinters finish 1st, 2nd at Connecticut girls indoor track championships
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Old 26th February 2019, 20:09     #112
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Critics say their gender identity amounts to an unfair advantage
It ain’t their gender identity winning them the races.
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Old 26th February 2019, 23:59     #113
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Check out the racist guy.
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Old 27th February 2019, 00:02     #114
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
oh lol
I was actually talking about the biological sex, but yeah you're right, west african genes would help
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Old 7th March 2019, 19:32     #115
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47468011

An upcoming biopic about the father of Serena and Venus Williams has faced criticism amid reports that Will Smith will play the lead role.

He may be black... but he's not the particular right shade of black.

wtf
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Old 27th March 2019, 16:25     #116
Nich
 
Jussie Smollett race / homophobic crime hoax - all charges dropped.

It appears that the prosecution and Chicago police didn't process evidence properly.
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Old 27th March 2019, 16:51     #117
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Since Smollett is a rich famous gay Hollywood liberal with social connections to the Obama family, I'm sure his release without prosecution will be forgotten quickly.
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Old 27th March 2019, 18:23     #118
Nich
 
Ahh yes, but it's not enough to be just gay. You gotta be openly gay, scared, and ready to fight back against all that oppression!

If you keep your sexual preferences private ... well you get this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cuMcPN6eUg

and then you get this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo0-ze6zn8w
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Old 29th March 2019, 12:50     #119
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Since Smollett is a rich famous gay Hollywood liberal with social connections to the Obama family, I'm sure his release without prosecution will be forgotten quickly.
Has to pay $130k USD for the cost of the investigation, and case is being "reviewed"
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Old 31st March 2019, 15:37     #120
Nich
 
Smollett wants a race war as much as the Christchurch shooter. They just have different ways of going about getting what they want. I can't help but feel that him getting off scott free will further aggravate the tensions between identity groups.


Islamophobia, Anti-Semitism, and the problem of compelled speech
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/is...pelled-speech/

Quote:
If your sympathy for a good cause has to meet a “compelled speech” standard to be considered sincere, then who is the more admirable character? In this parody of bullying virtue-signallers (not a trope in use at the time), we see that often those “wearing the ribbon” are more concerned about showcasing the “correct” public expression of their sympathy than the plight of the actual victims they are marching for. Bullying those who eschew conforming symbols thus provokes contempt for the bullies and respect for the genuine sincerity of the non-conformist.
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