Christmas Island

[fixed_truth]

^^ that's it (@pxpx).

It's kinda sad people don't get that. Buy I guess this uninformed group is who Key is targeting with his 'but they're baddies who cares what happens to them' line.

[ZoSo]

Well even if I said I thought the australians were utter cunts and it's a disgrace what's being done, it would be lost on you, cause you couldn't possibly hold that view and still have a laugh at little's comment based on the current circumstances and roll your eyes at the framing of these guys as just downtrodden on their luck cuzzy bros.
Naturally you were so well informed prior to gower dropping the numbers and have all the answers on what can or can't be done (tim watkins advice included). I didn't, so I avoided pretending to.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Fx.

despite having committed no crime.

Decorated former Lance Corporal Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu, better known as Ko Rutene, has been detained because his visa was revoked on the grounds that he is a member of a motorcycle club.

Trivia: when members of the Rebels Motorcycle Club are identified upon arrival in NZ from Australia, they are deported and sent back to Australia.

[Ab]

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 501

For the purposes of this section, a person does not pass the character test if:


(b) the Minister reasonably suspects:

(i) that the person has been or is a member of a group or organisation, or has had or has an association with a group, organisation or person; and

(ii) that the group, organisation or person has been or is involved in criminal conduct

Is it reasonable to suspect that the Rebels Motorcycle Club has been involved in criminal conduct?

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

Is it reasonable to suspect that the Rebels Motorcycle Club has been involved in criminal conduct?

You forgot the most important bit.

Refusal or cancellation of visa on character grounds
Decision of Minister or delegate--natural justice applies

Do you think it fair to remove people from the country they recognize as home?

[Ab]

What has that got to do with anything?

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Heyzoos

You forgot the most important bit.

Do you think it fair to remove people from the country they recognize as home?

I should have kept reading The Australian Immigration Act is a complete joke.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by ZoSo

Well even if I said I thought the australians were utter cunts and it's a disgrace what's being done, it would be lost on you, cause you couldn't possibly hold that view and still have a laugh at little's comment based on the current circumstances and roll your eyes at the framing of these guys as just downtrodden on their luck cuzzy bros.
Naturally you were so well informed prior to gower dropping the numbers and have all the answers on what can or can't be done (tim watkins advice included). I didn't, so I avoided pretending to.

My comment wasn't alluding to you thinking that these guys rights don't matter. All you did was point out that some of them are cunts, which is true.

[fixed_truth]

Key standing his ground - John Key says he didn't go too far with 'backing rapist' comment

Little making a big (risky?) move - Little to front for expats in Oz

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

What has that got to do with anything?

I thought the story so far was.

1. Australia detains a number of Kiwis who in the past have been convicted of crimes and have served their time.
2. These "Kiwis" want to live in Australia, a place they consider home. Black Baby Jesus knows why.
3. The conditions they are detained in are poor.
4. The time it takes to process there claims is shit.
5. They riot.
6. Our governments response is a bad joke that John Oliver will mock at some point.
7. John Key says they can come home to NZ.
8. Fuck you John they say, we want to live in Australia our home.
9. More rioting.
10. The story continues.

Did I miss anything. My question is. Do you think it's fair to deport these people?

[ZoSo]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

My comment wasn't alluding to you thinking that these guys rights don't matter. All you did was point out that some of them are cunts, which is true.

Sounded like a sledge, but whatever.

I would have thought criminals of that nature, would slow down the process somewhat then, no?

[Ab]

Fair? We're talking about the Australian Dept of Immigration. I don't think "fair" is in their mission statement.

If I were a cynical type I'd suggest that the Dept of Immigration had placed the ex-crim NZ citizens there on Christmas Island deliberately. Because having a bunch of big ugly Maoris with criminal records in detention is awfully hard for bleeding-heart white liberal Australia to get upset about, and now it's the big ugly Maoris with criminal records that everyone's talking about - not the legitimate refugees fleeing war and persecution who are also in detention. What's that you say, there are women and children being raped in these concentration camps that's fucking horri--OOGA BOOGA BIG UGLY MAORIS WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS OOGA BOOGA BIG UGLY MAORIS WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS, yeah keep those fuckers locked up sorry what were we talking about?

[ZoSo]

So if Key is guided by 'Crosby' on this one (hilarious that shit is still a talking point), who are the dark arts behind Little's well staged entry?
Good on him for actually going over though I guess, rather than pontificating back here.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

Fair? We're talking about the Australian Dept of Immigration. I don't think "fair" is in their mission statement.

If I were a cynical type...

Nah... realist for sure.

My completely unrealistic view is that criminals are humans and should always be treated as such.

[ZoSo]

Ahhh, walked out and tripped over a Story article. The photo op makes sense now. GG. Well played.

[DrTiTus]

I like how John Key says "child molesterers" and when he was giving his reasons was like "For one....", "secondly", and then "fourthly".

Can't talk, can't count, can't remember.

What a can't.

[fixed_truth]

Jailed Kiwi soldier was John Key's bodyguard

Mr Rutene served with the New Zealand Defence Force in Afghanistan and his partner Teresa Mariner told media today his time there included protecting the Prime Minister during a 2010 visit.

Holy WTF. This sounds too good to be true.

[fixed_truth]

Key wrong about Christmas Island murder claim

Number of Kiwi murderers and rapist on Christmas Island . . . . . . . 0

[Ab]

Australia has many other detention centres. No reason to fixate on Christmas Island.

[CCS]

Labour is barely fixating on any detention centre at the moment. They're busy being outraged wailing over John Key being a big meanie.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Jailed Kiwi soldier was John Key's bodyguard

Holy WTF. This sounds too good to be true.

TIL that shaking JKs hand is tantamount to diplomatic immunity

[CCS]

I wish they'd stop calling that guy a war hero. Not to knock his service - that itself is worthy - but he hasn't been given a medal for bravery or gallantry or something like that. He has service medals. If he's a hero for serving in Afghanistan then all of our soldiers who were deployed there are now war heroes.

I'm sure they wouldn't feel embarrassed about being characterised as war heroes for just doing their jobs /s

[creamcheese]

I think nothing will be done about this whole sorry affair until they chuck Russell Crowe in there for failing the character test.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by pxpx

TIL that shaking JKs hand is tantamount to diplomatic immunity

It's more the contrast between Keys rapists comment and a soldier who once protected him in Afghanistan. If this is true of course.

[Lightspeed]

John Key and his government supports rapists by refusing to sufficiently fund the clinics that helps victims of rape recover from their trauma, which in turn would empower them to seek justice. So most rapists can and do get away with their crime.

The Greens have it right - John Key 'using rape as a political tool' - Metiria Turei.

These are the values of our age. Rape is a political tool, not something that actually happens to people. Yay us.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

John Key and his government supports rapists

For sure.

[Ab]

And now nobody is talking about detention centres or special category visas or John Key's actual impotence when it comes to getting Australia to stop doing anything it wants.

Now everyone's talking about a bunch of whiny feminists having a menstrual tantrum in Parliament, and John Key looks like a normal everyday guy dealing with a bunch of sandy vaginas. Yeah JK mate, been there done that eh? Hey what was it like being in the All Blacks changing rooms?

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

John Key and his government supports rapists by refusing to sufficiently fund the clinics that helps victims of rape recover from their trauma, which in turn would empower them to seek justice. So most rapists can and do get away with their crime.

The Greens have it right - John Key 'using rape as a political tool' - Metiria Turei.

These are the values of our age. Rape is a political tool, not something that actually happens to people. Yay us.

"John Key is using rape as a political tool!!" squawks Metiria Turei, as she not-so-subtly uses rape as a political tool.

At this point, I think JK said that shit on purpose, to rile up the left and get them frothing at the mouth. They seem more focused on smearing mean old John, rather than criticizing the governments inability (through the nature of international politics) to make a meaningful change to Australias policy for detainees.

edit: Oh. Ab beat me to it (had that post in draft for a few while, lol)

[Lightspeed]

And what are you talking about Ab?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by pxpx

At this point, I think JK said that shit on purpose, to rile up the left and get them frothing at the mouth.

The horrible part is people treating him like a cunning and skilled leader for this approach.

What interests do you have that you think JK is using this cunning and skill to achieve on your behalf as your leader?

Or do you see us as powerless, and you're about getting what you can while you can?

[Ab]

Labour's MPs on the whole act like a bunch of tired children with petty grudges. Politics is a game and Key is really good at it and they're really bad at it and that drives them crazy, and being able to drive them crazy with no effort and at no political cost is one of Key's most effective tools.

[fixed_truth]

Not everything in politics has to be strategic. MPs who have been the victims of sexual assault and who have worked as advocates for the victims of assault are going to be pretty angry at being accused of ‘backing rapists’

https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/1...-in-the-house/

Good point

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

The horrible part is people treating him like a cunning and skilled leader for this approach.

What interests do you have that you think JK is using this cunning and skill to achieve on your behalf as your leader?

Or do you see us as powerless, and you're about getting what you can while you can?

People are treating him like a cunning and skilled politician for this approach, his leadership qualities are demonstrated by other actions (including but not limited to a mostly unified and disciplined caucus).

This kind of politics is an attempt to accomplish one thing and one thing only: destabilise the opposition so that they are less effective come election time. Both sides do it all the time in equally despicable ways (Ron Mark's racism for a recent example), it's not our political system's best attribute, but it is what it is.

Deep down, everyone in the country knows that John Key doesn't seriously believe that Labour support murderers and rapists. Everyone on the left knows this too, but it isn't stopping them from trying to score their own political points.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

Politics is a game .

[Ab]

And John Key is better at it than anyone on the opposition's side of the house.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by pxpx

They seem more focused on smearing mean old John, rather than criticizing the governments inability (through the nature of international politics) to make a meaningful change to Australias policy for detainees.

Key Derangement Syndrome in full effect. Labour and Green have been attacking JK - playing the man and not the ball - since 2008 and National just keeps getting re-elected. The Left is so stupid that they still have not realised that their strategy doesn't work.

When Key accused them of backing murderers, child molesters and rapists, all they had to do was roll their eyes and move on to the business of sticking up for rights of detainees. Instead, they're having hug-ins in the halls of parliament and childishly not attending parliament. If they want something to change, maybe they should be in parliament instead?

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

And John Key is better at it than anyone on the opposition's side of the house.

That is well established.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by CCS

Key Derangement Syndrome in full effect. Labour and Green have been attacking JK - playing the man and not the ball - since 2008 and National just keeps getting re-elected. The Left is so stupid that they still have not realised that their strategy doesn't work.

John Key knows that Labour and the Greens hate him so much that they have to oppose anything he says almost as a matter of religious faith. If John Key says something, they must be offended by it. If John Key supports something, they must be against it.

Case in point: rapists. This week in Parliament John Key used the fact that some of the NZ citizens in Australian detention centres are rapists as a way of deflecting criticism that the NZ govt is not doing as much as it could for NZ citizens in detention. Because he knew that the moment he said anything to imply that rapists are bad people and maybe the govt didn't feel like bending over backwards to help them, Labour and the Greens would have to be offended by it and would have to be against whatever it was he said.

If John Key says that rapists are bad people, then as a matter of religious faith Labour and the Greens have to argue that rapists aren't bad people. Because John Key said they are and John Key must be wrong.

Yeah I know, that's crazy, no-one is that fucki--

'Rapists are not always monsters' – Green Party MP

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...green-party-mp

Logie: The problem is, and what makes it so hard to disclose in this country and anywhere else is we create the perception that rapists are monsters, that nobody could ever associate with them.

But the truth is that many rapists and sexual offenders are known to us, they’re our family members, they are people that were previously our friends.

So when the Prime Minister creates this impression that this is the absolute worst possible thing it is silencing so many survivors and victims of violence.

Interviewer: Isn’t it though for some people the worst possible thing?

Logie: It is truly an awful awful experience, and these are people we know, and part of what makes it hard to disclose and to hold those people to account is that we also know them, in many cases as people who are not always monsters.

[Lightspeed]

Is it possible that people hate what those in power are doing rather than those in power?

Is it possible the concerns of the actions of those in power are genuine, rather than just being concerned about not being in power?

From what the rabid right of NZGames have to say (and refuse to comment on) it seems like the answer to both questions is a resounding no.

[CCS]

The Left keep proving the Right to be correct. Over and over again.