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Old 28th January 2015, 22:03     #161
Lightspeed
 
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Hard to say - as soon as he starts to looks stupid
Woah, woah, woah, WOAH. Back the motherfucking truck up here!

You mean to say I don't always look stupid? pxpx that's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me.
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Old 28th January 2015, 22:11     #162
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyWonder
A lot of people in the middle probably genuinely didn't see themselves better off with National, but a left coalition never looked functional, so it seemed like you'd be gunning for the same or worse.

Dirty Politics just made it seem like the left cared more about scoring points than offering something positive. Oh yeah, Vote Positive. Yeah Right.
Pretty much exactly this. Yes National were a pack of cunts, and still are, but they were a competent pack of cunts up against a rag tag melange of clueless niceguys, people trying to manipulate the election for their personal benefit, information mismanagement, hard-line activists, vote-cannibalism with too many parties going for too small a voter segment and ignoring the other voters, and SHITLOADS of infighting.

Basically yes: The entire "left" handed the Nats the government by making themselves look like the worse option.
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Old 28th January 2015, 22:45     #163
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Uh, we all did you dumb shit. But let's hear your dance about how we didn't.
Labour/Greens have been going on and on and on about how the TPP negotiations are being conducted in secret and that the public deserves to knows what's in the agreement. Are you telling me that actually the negotiating hasn't been going on in secret and that Labour/Green are wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Uh, we all did you dumb shit.
Oh. We all have the inside word on the TPP? I feel left out. Anyone care to fill me in on some TPP detail?
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Old 28th January 2015, 22:56     #164
Lightspeed
 
There have been several leaks of the TPP, with media discussing the contents.

The secret part is a) it wasn't supposed to be leaked, b) the final agreement will be signed without its contents at the point of signing being made public.
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Old 28th January 2015, 23:11     #165
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
So I'm a dumb shit for not having seen the leak? Hooooboy. I guess I need to get on Phil Goff's mailing list.
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Old 28th January 2015, 23:14     #166
Lightspeed
 
Wink

Talking about shit you don't know shit about? Well, we make mistakes. Talking about shit you don't know shit about but everyone else does? Dumb shit.
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Old 28th January 2015, 23:16     #167
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Off on Planet Lolspeed again eh.
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Old 29th January 2015, 09:02     #168
Lightspeed
 
I figured you'd miss that.

This Civilian article reminds me of Ab's recent comments about indifference:
Key hopes state housing plan will ensure no one like him ever becomes Prime Minister again
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Old 29th January 2015, 17:33     #169
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 


herald
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Old 29th January 2015, 22:55     #170
sidbo
Raptus regaliter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
This Civilian article
Where article = satire.
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Old 30th January 2015, 11:19     #171
Lightspeed
 
Quality satire.

Here's a little more bruising.
Most rivers in New Zealand too dirty for a swim

Particularly when you consider how National responded to Fish & Game's raising of this issue before the election with threats of removing their statutory powers.

"Stop crying, you fucking love it."
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 30th January 2015 at 11:21.
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Old 1st February 2015, 19:10     #172
fixed_truth
 
Asking wheter Little is a better match for Mr Key than his predecessors isn't very helpful. But this is promising start:
Quote:
3 News polls on the same questions regularly, and Mr Little has got some of the highest ratings since Helen Clark. For instance, 54 percent say he is a capable leader; only Ms Clark got higher.

But here's the problem for Mr Little – 81 percent of voters rate Mr Key as capable.

As for performance, asked how the leaders are doing, 45 percent say Mr Little is performing well – again the highest rating since Ms Clark. Just 17 percent say he is doing a poor job. That's good for a Labour chief.

Sixty-three percent say Mr Key is performing well, and 24 percent say he is doing poorly.
Little rivals Clark in favourable poll results
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Old 1st February 2015, 20:05     #173
pxpx
 
Only Ms Clark was higher..... so how much higher was she? Article headline says he's rivalling Clark but doesn't directly compare?

Smells like bullshit to me?

Last edited by pxpx : 1st February 2015 at 20:06.
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Old 1st February 2015, 20:16     #174
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Preferred Prime Minister:
John Key – 44 percent, up 3.9 percent
Andrew Little – 9.8 percent (debut)
That's actually not too impressive at all. That's about what you'd expect from a leader that so far hasn't been tested.

Comparing him to other recent Labour leaders shows only that - 11 weeks in and untested - he's coming first place out of a bunch of losers.
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Old 1st February 2015, 20:28     #175
spigalau
 
If 28% of people want to vote labour, why do less than 10% want Little as PM ?
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Old 1st February 2015, 21:24     #176
Pimp-X
Drunken Annoying
Superhero Bastard
 
I predict he will be a fuckup and get rolled.
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Old 2nd February 2015, 07:59     #177
StN
I have detailed files
 
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Old 2nd February 2015, 10:46     #178
fixed_truth
 
That awkward moment when that buffoon Rodney Hide is singing your praises:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11394722
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Old 3rd February 2015, 13:50     #179
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Little has to build an organisation that can win a campaign in three years time. That means he needs money. That means he needs donors. That means he needs business-friendly messaging. That means the left side of his caucus will feel betrayed and start sharpening knives.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:09     #180
Lightspeed
 
Gotta wonder how democratic our democracy is when you've got to align yourself with money grubbers to win an election. Isn't that more of a plutocracy?
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 3rd February 2015 at 14:11.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:21     #181
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Campaigning to be the government costs money. You think David Farrar works for free?
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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:28     #182
xor
 
Yes but how about the ethics behind it? Fucking mental
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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:40     #183
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Campaigning to be the government costs money. You think David Farrar works for free?
You mean campaigning in the current political climate is significantly easier if you are able to garner a large amount of donations.

Meaning a successful political party has two options: to appeal to the values of New Zealanders, or to develop relationships with the richest of NZ (or those with interests in NZ.)

Is that the foundation of NZ democracy? It may well be, I'm certainly not strong on NZ's political history beyond Michael Savage FTW.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 17:20     #184
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Meaning a successful political party has two options: to appeal to the values of New Zealanders, or to develop relationships with the richest of NZ (or those with interests in NZ.)
One level deeper - a party has no idea what the values of New Zealanders are without seeking professional advice, and that shit costs money.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 18:11     #185
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
o_O

Pfft. The values of New Zealanders are whatever the Labour Party says they are.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 18:22     #186
[Malks] Pixie
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Pfft. The values of New Zealanders are...
...a ridiculous idea to start with.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 18:26     #187
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
One level deeper - a party has no idea what the values of New Zealanders are without seeking professional advice, and that shit costs money.
Really? How much money? Is that how the Greens managed to increase their support over the past years? By spending money to find out the values of NZers?

And is that where the money is being spent? It's not being spent attempting to influence values instead?
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Old 3rd February 2015, 18:38     #188
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2014/09/reality-adjacent/

...although, paradoxically, one of the messages of that article is that money doesn't win elections. But using your money to learn stuff does.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 19:08     #189
Lightspeed
 
Yeah, well, it's a fair point. If you spend your money learning how to win an election you'll greatly improve your changes of winning an election. Too bad for those spending their money on learning how to improve the lives of all NZers. I appreciate I'm naive in hoping for good faith in the political process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Malks] Pixie
...a ridiculous idea to start with.
I am always eager for your insight.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 3rd February 2015 at 19:09.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 19:19     #190
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Yeah, well, it's a fair point. If you spend your money learning how to win an election you'll greatly improve your changes of winning an election. Too bad for those spending their money on learning how to improve the lives of all NZers. I appreciate I'm naive in hoping for good faith in the political process.
What good does it do if they know how to improve the lives of all NZers if they're not in a position to make use of that knowledge?
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Old 3rd February 2015, 19:43     #191
Lightspeed
 
That's true. Does that mean we have to accept those most able to grasp at power as our leaders? My understanding was our democratic institutions are designed to put limits on the use of power to achieve positions of authority. And I thought that this came with a degree of good faith, that people who found themselves in positions of authority would not be primarily using that position to secure that authority.

Like everyone I was somewhat younger when Labour was in power. Did they also have the problem of their MPs having to step down one after the other for either abuses of their position or other problematic behaviour given their responsibilities? I remember that MP who was convicted for using illegal labour in exchange for immigration assistance. I can't recall if he held a senior position, like chair of the Law & Order committee.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 21:14     #192
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
My understanding was our democratic institutions are designed to put limits on the use of power to achieve positions of authority.
Empirical evidence would suggest otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
And I thought that this came with a degree of good faith, that people who found themselves in positions of authority would not be primarily using that position to secure that authority.
LOL! I like the joke you just made that flies in the face of hundreds of years of proof otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Like everyone I was somewhat younger when Labour was in power. Did they also have the problem of their MPs having to step down one after the other for either abuses of their position or other problematic behaviour given their responsibilities? I remember that MP who was convicted for using illegal labour in exchange for immigration assistance. I can't recall if he held a senior position, like chair of the Law & Order committee.
Not seeing your point here; Fact is that National have stage-managed even their screw-ups in a way that casts ALL the blame on the individuals, making the rest of the party look good in comparison. Plus with Labour busy backstabbing each other (no doubt aided by Key and others) and no one else on the Left centrist enough to attract the public, Nats are in for a while yet.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 22:23     #193
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocos
LOL! I like the joke you just made that flies in the face of hundreds of years of proof otherwise.
So you are saying this man's efforts were primarily to secure his own position of power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocos
Not seeing your point here; Fact is that National have stage-managed even their screw-ups in a way that casts ALL the blame on the individuals, making the rest of the party look good in comparison. Plus with Labour busy backstabbing each other (no doubt aided by Key and others) and no one else on the Left centrist enough to attract the public, Nats are in for a while yet.
This is the only thing I have heard celebrated about National: their ability to get away with their bullshit.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 3rd February 2015 at 22:24.
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Old 4th February 2015, 12:10     #194
Lightspeed
 
I forgot about this one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocos
Empirical evidence would suggest otherwise.
That's one academic view, and like legal views, there will be another one that will give you a counterview.
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Old 4th February 2015, 12:20     #195
pxpx
 
LS Hates the player and the game
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Old 4th February 2015, 13:04     #196
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
So you are saying this man's efforts were primarily to secure his own position of power?
The fuuuuuck?

During the Savage Labour government all public radio broadcasts of any sort were controlled by the Prime Minister's office. Every word spoken on air literally required the approval of the Prime Minister. Savage's famous quote of the regime was "The government is going to be the master of publicity".

Savage took over as Minister of Broadcasting, wrote and approved his own speeches praising the Labour Government and its policies, and made it mandatory for all radio stations to broadcast them in full. "Propaganda of a controversial nature" was banned from the air for the public good, and surprise surprise the definition of "propaganda of a controversial nature" officially included anything said or done by His Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

You could not choose a MORE RETARDED EXAMPLE when talking about using influence to secure power. Compared to the Savage Labour government, Key's National government is a bunch of altruistic charity workers on truth drugs.

LRN2HISTORY
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Old 4th February 2015, 13:45     #197
Lightspeed
 
o_O

And the result was Savage and his cronies were left enriched with a large proportion of NZers struggling with poverty?

If so, do you have anything to convince me of that? I don't benefit from the same education you do. By the time I showed up, much of the welfare state had been disestablished.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 4th February 2015 at 13:46.
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Old 4th February 2015, 13:50     #198
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I forgot, you're an "ends justify the means" guy.
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Old 4th February 2015, 13:52     #199
pxpx
 
LS gets owned, then pretends his point was something else

lol, I did not know that about Savage. Cheers for the learning Ab.
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Old 4th February 2015, 14:02     #200
Lightspeed
 
lolz, one story and you're convinced, eh? That's some quality knowledge right there.

I guess that's what you guys are in it for, the story (as long as you're not the ones falling into poverty I bet.)
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