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Old 14th July 2015, 21:18     #81
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
I presume that means "non-Maori"?
We're talking about Andrew Little. It could mean anything.
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Old 14th July 2015, 21:18     #82
Lightspeed
 
When is NZ going to catch up on this problem with Chinese property investment?

Oh, wait, there is no problem, just racists.
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Old 14th July 2015, 21:24     #83
crocos
 
Well, calling it a problem? Sure it's a problem if you want to keep rich Chinese folks out of your country. Other than that? They're just obeying the country's laws. Don't like it? GET THE FUCKING LAWS CHANGED YOU RACIST PRICK.

Note: Not you specifically LS but when immigration from other countries occurs the complaints are almost always either demonstrating cultural or racial intolerance. Italians & Irish in New York in the 20's to 40's, the Polish in the UK, etc. Most of the purchasing here is for residential property for people to actually live in - they are emigrating, not investing, and for a whole melting-pot of reasons, they prefer Auckland.
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Last edited by crocos : 14th July 2015 at 21:26.
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Old 14th July 2015, 21:27     #84
crocos
 
PS: Getting my info about emigrating from a BNZ internal whitepaper written by Tony Alexander, rather than pulling it out of my arse like Andrew Little.

PPS: Emigrating or Immigrating? I can never remember :-/
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Last edited by crocos : 14th July 2015 at 21:29.
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Old 15th July 2015, 08:47     #85
Juju
get to da choppa
 
E for Exiting - I for Incoming
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Old 15th July 2015, 09:41     #86
Macca@Work
 
A house went up for auction across the road from us.We went over to have a look.There was an indian family and a pasifika family doing the bidding.There was also a person bidding by phone.The house sold for 420K to the phone bidder dude.The indian and pasifika families were clearly devasted.They were young families (sp) trying to get their first home.
2 months later,the house is up for sale. The european real estate agent who bought the house has done nothing to it what so ever,and will likely make 20-30k profit on it.(possibly more.)So it isnt just a yellow peril,its a greed and profit making peril.(which it has been from the start.)
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Old 15th July 2015, 09:42     #87
Macca@Work
 
Ab stop hating on the boomers..the person I referred to in the above post was about your age.
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Old 15th July 2015, 10:26     #88
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca@Work
A house went up for auction across the road from us.We went over to have a look.There was an indian family and a pasifika family doing the bidding.There was also a person bidding by phone.The house sold for 420K to the phone bidder dude.The indian and pasifika families were clearly devasted.They were young families (sp) trying to get their first home.
2 months later,the house is up for sale. The european real estate agent who bought the house has done nothing to it what so ever,and will likely make 20-30k profit on it.(possibly more.)So it isnt just a yellow peril,its a greed and profit making peril.(which it has been from the start.)
Pretty good how there's a law coming in on October 1 that will tax that profit eh.
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Old 15th July 2015, 10:27     #89
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
It ain't expensive. Coupla grand would get you good data.
Is this really true? Cause I got a coupla grand. And I'm sure lots of Labour and Green supporters do as well. As well as plenty of National supporters who would genuinely like to know what's happening.

If it is so cheap, what invisible and insidious phenomena has blinded us to this?
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Old 15th July 2015, 11:03     #90
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Pretty good how there's a law coming in on October 1 that will tax that profit eh.
What, a capital gains tax? Not as far as I'm aware, but I'd be happy to be corrected.
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Old 15th July 2015, 11:22     #91
Brutus
 
Same law as has been in-place for years already.
IE if you're buying&selling with the intention of making a profit, you're to pay tax on the profit.
Most don't declare and don't pay tax.

AFAIK Law change is around reporting requirements, if the house is being resold within 2 years you're going to have to fill in some forms for this 'brightline test' to determine if you should be taxed or not.
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Old 15th July 2015, 11:32     #92
Lightspeed
 
Thumbs up

+1 Informative.
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Old 15th July 2015, 11:49     #93
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus
Same law as has been in-place for years already.
IE if you're buying&selling with the intention of making a profit, you're to pay tax on the profit.
Most don't declare and don't pay tax.

AFAIK Law change is around reporting requirements, if the house is being resold within 2 years you're going to have to fill in some forms for this 'brightline test' to determine if you should be taxed or not.
Thanks for agreeing with me.
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Old 15th July 2015, 12:55     #94
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Reading the all the leftish blogs and Labour party defensiveness over the past couple of days I'm struck by how overwhelmingly the "it's not racist, don't be silly" message is being proclaimed by... comfortably middle-class white people. Almost all of them male.

Because, you know, if there's one thing that people like Andrew Little, Phil Twyford, Rob Salmond, Chris Trotter, angry-neckbeard-guy at The Standard, et al all have in common... it's knowing what racism is.

Then you have Keith Ng and Raybon Kan and Tze Ming Mok writing "fuck yeah it's racist, I'm a New Zealander and I'm fucking offen--" "LOOK WE JUST TOLD YOU. IT'S NOT RACIST. YOU PEOPLE NEVER LISTEN."
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Old 15th July 2015, 14:54     #95
Lightspeed
 
Great politics (by anyone proclaiming racism.) Shit policy, because the world over people are talking about Chinese property investment and its drivers, just as the world would if any nation with vast resources started buying up property around the world.

But certainly I'm hearing names I don't often hear because they're trumpeting racism. Great politics.
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Old 15th July 2015, 15:19     #96
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
No, it's just another instance of Labour fucking up and handing the high ground to National.
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Old 15th July 2015, 15:30     #97
Lightspeed
 
If that's true, it's only because our political climate is running hot on simplistic, knee-jerk nonsense. That folk like yourself seem gleeful to promote.

Again, I'm wondering if you're a sadist or a nihilist.
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Old 15th July 2015, 15:56     #98
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Lolspeed is really defensive about this whole thing.
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:02     #99
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Think of all the ways that Labour could have tackled the issue. Every possible way it could have used the Auckland property bubble to make National look bad. Every possible way it could have acknowledged the Auckland property bubble, possible causes, and possible solutions.

Of all those things, the one it chose was to say "We've got some secret data from a secret real-estate agent that shows the Chinese are buying all the houses!"

All the houses?

Well, a bigger percentage of the secret agent's sales during a three month period were to Chinese people than Chinese people are a percentage of the Auckland population, therefore yellow peril.

Chinese people?

Well, people with Chinese-sounding names.

So they may have been as Kiwi as you or me, but somehow they're part of a problem of "foreign money"?

Well, um...

Did you ask the agency if any of the non-Chinese-sounding names on its sales reports were "foreign money"? Australians? English?

Well, no, obviously....

This secret agency - does it have a special relationship with Chinese investor groups? Does it run any marketing specifically aimed at people in China looking to invest? Did it do that during this three-month period?

Well we can't ask, obviously, it's SECRET.

You're fucking muppets, aren't you?

Yellow peril!
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:10     #100
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
But! But! Ab! This data is real! And that's the best we have! Why can't that excuse all the incompetence?
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:16     #101
Lightspeed
 
So the most important thing to focus on is Labour being clumsy and stupid. The possibility of an actual issue, such as the one that's been going around international media for a few months now and seems to be coming to a peak? What 'evs. That's correct, right?

So, which is it? Sadistic or nihilistic.
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:21     #102
fixed_truth
 
NZ top China expert Rodney Jones:

Quote:
In such a data void, it is natural that people look for informal data sets. While Phil Twyford's data set based on names created a storm, and is less than ideal given it is implicitly based on ethnicity, rather than residency or citizenship, it does provide a sense as to the extent of non-resident demand for Auckland property. This is consistent with what has been observed in property markets as varied as Singapore, Hong Kong and Vancouver.
Quote:
Across the Asia-Pacific region the anecdotal evidence of demand for offshore property by Chinese residents is overwhelming. China is unique in financial history, in that combines a huge stock of financial assets with ill-defined property rights and a still evolving rule of law. This mix combines buying power with demand for assets with certain property rights, such as houses on freehold land. We have not seen this before, as typically foreign investment by individuals has been financial - equities, bonds and mutual funds.
Quote:
To express concerns about the potential impact of these flows is not racism; it is sensible macro prudential management.
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:33     #103
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
I don't think it's nihilistic or sadistic to conclude that Labour fucked up big time on this issue.

Quote:
Labour then grouped buyers into ethnicities based on surnames using electoral roll data. - Stuff
I mean... really?

That's not even the tip of the ice-berg sized ineptitude being displayed by Labour on this issue alone.

I had to point out to my wife, when she got sucked into feeling sorry for the poor, attempting to be first home buyers trying to live the Kiwi dream, etc. that a significant portion of our KiwiSaver investment and conceivably these same first home buyers KiwiSaver, is in foreign property securities whose primary source of revenue is rental income.

WHITE PERIL WHITE PERIL
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:39     #104
Lightspeed
 
Neither do I. What is sadistic or nihilistic is gratifying ourselves over Labour's bumblings rather than engaging in serious political discourse.

Forget about Labour. What we need to ask is is the problem genuine and if so what do we want to do about it.
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:46     #105
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
http://www.metromag.co.nz/editors-bl...rty-challenge/

Quote:
Here’s a checklist. It’s not exhaustive.

• Remove all of property’s taxation advantages. Stand by for howls of outrage from baby boomers.

• Overhaul building costs, in particular to undermine profiteering over materials and to encourage prefabrication and other efficiencies. Stand by for fierce lobbying from everyone in the construction industry who benefits from building houses in the expensive way they do it now.

• Develop incentives to encourage the scaling up of small and mid-size construction companies. Stand by for complaints from those that are already big.

• Speed up (and make easier) the consent processes for developers, designers and builders who are committed to environmentally smart solutions – in location, construction, energy use and more. Stand by for a battle on two fronts: from those who want to gut the RMA altogether and from nimbys.

• Commit to affordable housing within existing population centres and along major public transport corridors. Stand by for complaints for everyone with a vested interest in greenfields development (including existing land-bankers, ticky-tacky housing developers and motorway construction companies). Also nimbys.

• Overhaul education and trade training to produce a larger and more appropriately skilled construction workforce. Stand by for the angst from institutions currently producing too many lawyers, PR “executives” and graphic designers, and too few carpenters.

• Remove New Zealand’s near-unique appeal as a place for overseas investors to buy property, by making it illegal to own land unless you are a citizen or resident. And do it in such a way that no one is demonised by virtue of their ethnicity. Stand by for a full dose of liberal fury nonetheless.

• Created a publicly available backdated register of property ownership, so we can have well-informed debates about demographic and investment trends of all kinds. Stand by for the rage of privacy advocates, including those who are keen to keep the truth about their property transactions obscured.
edit update: also

Quote:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11481506

The Barfoot and Thompson staffer who leaked real estate data to the Labour Party has been fired, the Herald understands.
...
Labour's housing spokesman Phil Twyford, who released the data to the Herald, said he would not comment until Barfoot and Thompson had released the details of its investigation.
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:58     #106
Heyzoos
Robosexual
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
What we need to ask is is the problem genuine and if so what do we want to do about it.
That's easy. It's not a genuine problem. Housing affordability is firmly a first world issue and I have little patience for people complaining that the house that they want to buy is too expensive.

So continue the reveling I say.
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Old 15th July 2015, 16:59     #107
Macca@Work
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Pretty good how there's a law coming in on October 1 that will tax that profit eh.
Yeah.20/20 hindsight.Its brill.
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:21     #108
pxpx
 
..Okay?
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:42     #109
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Well hopefully now Labour can just STFU and stop digging any dee--
Quote:
Labour's housing spokesman Phil Twyford, who released leaked real estate figures to the Herald, said Barfoot and Thompson's decision was "extremely disappointing".
FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:44     #110
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Some good ideas there. Cos pointing the finger at chinks isn't enough by itself.
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:22     #111
Macca@Work
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
..Okay?
Its too late for a lot of people and smart arses will find a way to circumvent it.
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:35     #112
StN
I have detailed files
 
Cheesy grin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
... YOU PEOPLE NEVER LISTEN.
You people? Uh-oh...
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:48     #113
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 


In other news, I just remembered that we had this same discussion a while back somewhere around here:

http://www.nzgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1979238
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Old 16th July 2015, 00:05     #114
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Political roundup: Labour's dangerous racial politics in which political lecturer (probably rabid National) details all the rabid National supporters who have come out against Labour's racist ways.

Same rabid National lecturer's twitter feed full of retweets from other rabid National supporters who are facepalming over Labour's racism. Also a collection of 'Top tweets opposing Labour’s racial housing strategy'. That's a lot of rabid National supporters. Here's a rabid selection:

Quote:
Sanjay Patel ‏@spat106

Twyford's proposed policy: Ban people from buying property if their surname is one that's never before appeared in an All Blacks team list.
Quote:
Lew ‏@LewSOS

Picture, if you will, a campaign repurposing Rob Salmond's method to demonstrate that people with Maori names commit more crime.
Quote:
Ministry of Spin ‏@MinistryofSpin

Labour confesses some of its best friends sound Chinese
Quote:
Bevan Chuang ‏@MsBevanChuang

So Twyford's family who has moved to NZ since 60s think it is OK to slam Chinese whom some have been here since 1960s? Who's more recent?
Quote:
John Pagani ‏@johnpagani Jul 11

. @TheNationTV3 Isn't writing an algorithm to determine ethnic purity a bigger story than what the algorithm substantively says???
#lolling #chanban
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Old 16th July 2015, 09:48     #115
Lightspeed
 
You made me do this CCS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Here's where Labour went wrong: they singled out one specific race. They should have stated from the start that it's foreign buyers as a whole and not mentioned any particular race.
From two pages back in 2013:
Yeah, nah, they already tried that, we didn't like that either.
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Old 16th July 2015, 10:18     #116
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Auckland real estate agent comes forward with more detailed data:

Quote:
Principal agent James Law said Labour's leaked figures that showed 40 per cent of homes sold at auction in Auckland over a three-month period went to people with Asian surnames was "about right".

Mr Law said four out of 10 of the 350 who bought real estate through the company last year were of Chinese ethnicity.

"But what we found from our sales record was less than 10 per cent of them are actually overseas-based investors," he said. "Most of them are citizens or residents who have lived here for years."
Oops

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11480344
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:24     #117
pxpx
 
Look, an evil chinese property investor
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11481160
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Old 16th July 2015, 12:31     #118
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Interesting comment on Labour's move from rabid National supporter Malcolm "No Right Turn" Harbrow:

http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/20...ke-racism.html

Quote:
Its obvious enough and revolting enough that anyone looking at it would say "hey, this sounds like racism!" even in a party as talentless and dysfunctional as Labour. I guess they've decided that Winston really is heading for the exit, and are trying to position themselves to grab his 200,000 dead white racist voters, and bugger their supposed party values. But if this is the direction our largest "centre left" party is heading in, I don't see why any decent person would want to support it.
Now based on past performance I had assumed as a matter of course that this clusterfuck by Labour was an accident. That it was muppetry.

What if it's not? Like NRT says above, what if it's deliberate and calculated and Labour's leadership have just decided that it's better to win than to have principles? What if they just sat down and said "if all those elderly white racists who voted for Winston at the last election vote for us, we're up over 30%; and Winston's not going to be around much longer, so let's make sure those elderly white racists know who their second-best friend is"?
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Old 16th July 2015, 13:33     #119
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
This secret agency - does it have a special relationship with Chinese investor groups? Does it run any marketing specifically aimed at people in China looking to invest? Did it do that during this three-month period?

Well we can't ask, obviously, it's SECRET.
Well, now we know that it's Barfoot & Thompson,

http://www.barfoot.co.nz/about-us/our-partners

Quote:
Our partnership with HouGarden puts your property in front of the Chinese market. Your property is advertised on the website, giving you exposure to non-english speaking audiences.

http://www.hougarden.com/
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Old 16th July 2015, 13:57     #120
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
What if it's not? Like NRT says above, what if it's deliberate and calculated and Labour's leadership have just decided that it's better to win than to have principles?
inb4 Lightspeeds "just like National AMIRITE HYUCK HYUCK!"
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