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9th December 2019, 17:23 | #1 | |
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Eruption at Whakaari/White Island
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...i-white-island
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9th December 2019, 19:49 | #2 |
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27 unaccounted for apparently. Could be pretty grim
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9th December 2019, 19:59 | #3 |
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1 Confirmed fatality and they aren't landing on the island at the moment
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9th December 2019, 22:43 | #4 |
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This Twitter thread is incredible.
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10th December 2019, 00:12 | #5 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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10th December 2019, 17:56 | #6 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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As someone who considers himself a child of the BOP (Steamers represent), my first reaction was what the fuck were people doing on the island?
Whakaari was in pretty much constant eruption my whole childhood and in my head it's always been in the unsafe places box. I didn't even know there were now tourist visits. Well, were tourist visits. |
10th December 2019, 18:05 | #7 |
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Police have just announced a criminal investigation.
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10th December 2019, 19:51 | #8 | |
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Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية |
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11th December 2019, 10:18 | #9 | |
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ |
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11th December 2019, 10:55 | #10 |
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I think what you need to look at is
1 - what does level 2 actually mean. Does it mean there is a 50% chance it will erupt, or a 1%. 2 - Along with that, the last time I believe it erupted was a very long time ago. How many times has it been at level 2. I believe a lot. I think the wording criminal investigation is misleading. It makes it sound like there is actually something wrong. It should be more like an enquiry to ensure that good and correct practices were in place. |
11th December 2019, 12:59 | #11 |
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I understand what they meant to say was that Police have been asked to investigate to support the Coronial enquiry due to it being classed by the Chief Coroner as a mass fatality incident.
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11th December 2019, 15:57 | #12 |
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Should visiting the island be banned? There's obviously risk involved in going to an active volcano. If the company followed the rules then maybe make some extra regulations or something & let people make an informed decision whether they want to take the risk.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
11th December 2019, 17:14 | #13 | |
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I would assume that they did let people know about the risks, but is it like T&Cs and no one pays attention to them.
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11th December 2019, 17:29 | #14 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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11th December 2019, 17:52 | #15 |
I have detailed files
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Can the Government ban access to private property?
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11th December 2019, 22:40 | #16 | |||
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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12th December 2019, 16:48 | #17 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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12th December 2019, 18:03 | #18 |
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I'm wondering how informed tourists actually were about the dangers. 18,000 tourist per yeah over a few decades(?) is a big built up of anecdotal evidence that understates the actual risk. If tours do continue I suppose anyone willing to go there fully knows the risks now.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
13th December 2019, 19:10 | #19 |
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Can anyone me why everyone is calling it whakaari/white Island?
To me it seems like saying I'm going up Mt egmont/taranaki or we live in aotearoa/new Zealand. |
14th December 2019, 12:31 | #20 | |
Min Sicker Reac
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14th December 2019, 14:03 | #21 |
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One way to look at the phenomena is as a historical artefact of complex human living. You can see them everywhere if you look, however we're raised thinking everything is proper and ordered, rational and coherent, so that's what we're cued to recognise and acknowledge, things that don't fit having a sense of wrongness to them.
This view of the world as ordered is just one of the many abstractions from reality we indulge in, which are powerful tools while they work. Problems emerge when we confuse our abstractions with reality. From power struggles: people fighting to assert their abstraction, to simple stupidity: acting with the abstraction despite it obviously being a large step away from observed reality. We're still pretty hooked on ideas of the right way and the wrong way, but these are giving way as we mature.
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14th December 2019, 15:27 | #22 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Thanks Nahaz
Drink! |
14th December 2019, 17:16 | #23 | |
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ |
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14th December 2019, 17:53 | #24 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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14th December 2019, 19:45 | #25 | |
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People caught up in their lives. We've set things up this way. Our systems designed to inform and influence are committed to getting people to buy stuff or vote against their interests.
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14th December 2019, 20:41 | #26 | |
Stuff
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Different of course to Mt Taranaki which was known as and renamed (officially from 2020) Mt Egmont
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My degree of sarcasm depends on your degree of stupidity. Last edited by MadMax : 14th December 2019 at 20:46. |
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15th December 2019, 19:23 | #27 |
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Oh - I am reminded of the tax loophole that was opened and closed for gift duty when Aoraki/Mt Cook was granted to Ngai Tahu as part of the settlement, and they gave it back. GG
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15th December 2019, 23:24 | #28 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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16th December 2019, 09:09 | #29 |
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^ Good point.
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30th November 2020, 15:17 | #30 |
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9th December 2020, 16:12 | #31 |
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I can't help thinking that these Whakaari White Island prosecutions are related to Worksafe's "Everyone gets home safely" driver. With everyone working from home for half a year, they have to justify their existence...
Then again, maybe they need test(ed) cases for the heroes to get off - if only they could claim compo for the stress. I don't think a petition is the right way to get a lasting result for "You are being prosecuted because you flew your helicopter into a dangerous area without thought for your safety and as a side effect saved 12(?) people..." |
9th December 2020, 16:22 | #32 |
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My guess it's a situation where they can't pick and choose who to prosecute if the law is to be applied even and fairly.
It doesn't seem like the case where individual scientists were charged in Italy for not adequately predicting an earthquake. The law will be exposed as not fit for purpose if those responding to an emergency are convicted for their efforts.
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10th December 2020, 22:05 | #33 |
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Yeah, I understand the emotion of it. But let's take a different view.
A person is driving up to an intersection, and sees someone run a red light and crashes into the car in front of them. Theres a huge fire. They risk their life pulling a baby out of the back seat. Wow a hero. Then you find out that in the previous 2 weeks, that hero racked up 25 red light offences and speeding offences Do you wave them all because they risked their lives? Those heroes could have been the ones on the island that day. Carrying tourists that were killed. Just because you did something great one day, doesn't neccessary give you a free pass for all the wrong you may have done in the past. Admittedly, I don't know the full extent of what "prosecutions" are. Are they actual court cases, are they investigations? What are they trying to establish |
11th December 2020, 02:28 | #34 | |
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WorkSafe had just two weeks before signed off that the flights over and visits to the island were fine.
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11th December 2020, 09:53 | #35 |
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Thank you for the clarification. That was a part I had not heard.
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11th December 2020, 12:51 | #36 |
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Pardon me - two months not weeks, but still.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118...efore-eruption And like so many things it's a little more nuanced than my memories of it. Still - WorkSafe definitely knew about this, was involved in auditing operations on the island, and said bupkis.
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Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية Last edited by crocos : 11th December 2020 at 12:54. |
3rd June 2021, 13:23 | #37 | |
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Whakaari/White Island: Confusion over safety responsibilities at senior level
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18th December 2022, 16:27 | #38 |
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Whakaari doc is up on Netflix.
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31st October 2023, 19:27 | #39 | |
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Whakaari Management convicted of one health and safety charge relating to fatal eruption
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