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Old 1st March 2013, 10:56     #1
Baxton
 
Painting Pictures

Can anyone in these parts paint, draw, make recommendations?

I am trying to learn to paint pictures. I do cartoon style stuff and am trying to get good. I have just started working on a whole picture instead of just characters and am at times struggling to get the right perspective / colour palette and general layout.

I know I could join an art forum or something but I don't really wanna go crack into another community.

If I pop the stuff I am working on (I am at a very basic level atm) would there be anyone willing to give me constructive input and what I should be improving?
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Old 1st March 2013, 14:01     #2
crocos
 
mpx is decent, bug him ^_^
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Old 4th March 2013, 15:57     #3
Baxton
 
whats teh best way to message him?
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Old 4th March 2013, 17:38     #4
crocos
 
Find a thread where he's posting and bug him there / trawl the Facebook thread to see if he's posted details / email him if he's got it open in his profile
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Old 4th March 2013, 19:33     #5
mpx
     .
 
Throw it up, let's have a look!

I've had no formal training but I suppose I could try give a few pointers and stuff like that.
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Old 4th March 2013, 20:00     #6
Baxton
 
o huh didn't spot the facebook thread.

Sweet ta man.

The thing I am struggling with is layout out of the background. Also I am not sure how to plan the colours out. It seemed once I started colouring I got stuck on brown.



(I realise it isn't art but I am only really happy drawing cartoon type stuff.)
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Old 4th March 2013, 23:25     #7
mpx
     .
 
Unfortunately the things I'm going to suggest are going to be what you don't want to do. These things are colour theory, perspective and life art studies.

I'm not sure whether you're doing this as a hobby or if you're doing it as a hobby but also want to progress as an artist. So I'll keep my suggestions somewhat short.

First off, with regards to how you presented your current ability to us, I like it. The faces have some good ol' Western personality in them, so yay!

Colour theory will fix your mind block in regards to the colours, you'll find out what colour complements the other, what tones of the same colour you can use for foreground and backgrounds, it's pretty boring stuff but it's unfortunately what you'll need to know if you want to really pick up what to use in foregrounds and backgrounds. For example that seems like a desert scene, you could use harsh reds and yellows for the dustburnt wood and harsh sun, and then you could contrast that with some pastel blues in the shadows to give it some depth and give the shade a feeling of respite. Wanky shit, I know, but even to a lay person it just "looks better".

At the moment, in regards to colour, it has made your piece look slightly flat due to the same colour and shade in foreground and background. You could try throw some pastel type colours over the entire background but that may make it too dark and become the focus point. Alternatively you could make thicker linework on the dude and building in the foreground to make them feel stronger to the eye.

With regards to perspective; Another thing I notice is the lack of focal point, the perspective looks like it would end in many areas, rather than just a few focal points. That would make the background look closer than you would desire too. So studying focal points and starting with a few, or even one focal point to get a perspective of where buildings and landscapes would be in proportion to everything else would help you too, I think.

Finally life art studies, probably not something you're interested in at all. But if you really want to progress into making very animated and personable cartoons, the background in understanding anatomy, bone structure, muscle movement and everything else will benefit you more than you think.

I am a huge Japanese manga and animation nerd, and when I discovered such a thing at an early age I actually set myself back a few steps by drawing such exaggerated cartoons. I didn't have the basic understanding of the rules enough for me to break those rules, so things just ended up looking... not right. I mean I would tape Sailor Moon when I was like 13 and pause frames and draw them, they would come out fine but if I tried to do something from memory, they'd look slightly downy.

My currently images don't really resemble Japanese art but if I were to try bust out some ultra cartoony manga dude right now I would be confident in nailing it pretty well because of all those hard yards I put in on life study.

You're not terrible at art, not by a long shot and it's awesome to see you playing with colour as well. If you want to just do what you're doing now, you could get away with using reference images from Google and get better slightly over time, but if it's something you think you really want to get in to, then the techniques above will shoot you to the starts and you'll literally only be limited to your imagination.

Don't get discouraged from this wall of text either. It's never too late to learn. Speed3D from this forum started learning art at a later age and his stuff now is fantastic!!

Anyway, hope this helps - sorry, I don't really do TL;DRs D: If you have any other questions I'm happy to help, or bust out the wacom and give you examples etc

Also don't say it's not art, it's definitely art and you shouldn't feel like you can't call it that!
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Old 5th March 2013, 09:17     #8
pxpx
 
you should follow mpx on the instagrams, quality doodles, NFI how he does them.
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Old 5th March 2013, 10:29     #9
mpx
     .
 
It's called "waiting on lawyers to hurry the F up" :P
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Old 6th March 2013, 09:13     #10
Baxton
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
Colour theory will fix your mind block in regards to the colours, you'll find out what colour complements the other, what tones of the same colour you can use for foreground and backgrounds, it's pretty boring stuff but it's unfortunately what you'll need to know if you want to really pick up what to use in foregrounds and backgrounds. For example that seems like a desert scene, you could use harsh reds and yellows for the dustburnt wood and harsh sun, and then you could contrast that with some pastel blues in the shadows to give it some depth and give the shade a feeling of respite.
You are so right. From the moment I picked up some colours to try a background I have been really aware that I don't know what colours go together. How did you learn this?

I have moved to using varying pen thickness's in other pictures but I have found they still seem flat to me due to the colours

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
With regards to perspective; Another thing I notice is the lack of focal point, the perspective looks like it would end in many areas, rather than just a few focal points. That would make the background look closer than you would desire too. So studying focal points and starting with a few, or even one focal point to get a perspective of where buildings and landscapes would be in proportion to everything else would help you too, I think.
atm I am googling stock photos for my backgrounds. do people normally just pull them out of their mind meats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
Finally life art studies, probably not something you're interested in at all. But if you really want to progress into making very animated and personable cartoons, the background in understanding anatomy, bone structure, muscle movement and everything else will benefit you more than you think.
actually this is something I had considered doing, However I had thought my weakness was in not understanding colours and perspective when I posted this. Do you think my characterisation could be vastly improved but going to some life study sessions? I have been dabbling in drawing for ages but have never done any formal lessons (never did art at highschool).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
Anyway, hope this helps - sorry, I don't really do TL;DRs D: If you have any other questions I'm happy to help, or bust out the wacom and give you examples etc
so helpful. Seriously. You have put a voice to the murmuring noise in the back of my head.
Main question is what is the best approach to improve on these areas (or learn them outright ) My goal is not to be a professional artist or nuffing but I intend to be drawing for the rest of my life and since I started trying up my game and draw whole images have been fairly unhappy at where my ability is sitting.
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Old 6th March 2013, 09:30     #11
Baxton
 
I have added this instragram thing to my phone. Whats your picture account thing mpx?
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Old 6th March 2013, 10:17     #12
mpx
     .
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxton
You are so right. From the moment I picked up some colours to try a background I have been really aware that I don't know what colours go together. How did you learn this?
Basically just by learning basic colour theory (this seems to be all right http://www.colormatters.com/color-an...c-color-theory) and then experimenting and looking at great artists like Monet in how they cast their shadows, etc. For example, I pretty much never make a shadow just a darker shade of the colour that's in the shade. So say if it was a yellow shirt, I wouldn't make it just a darker yellow, or black. It looks too flat and unnatural, I would use the complimentary colour which is purple/violet, it gives off the feeling that the shade is cool from the yellow heat, and has a real feeling of shade and depth. Learning the basic colour wheel and subsequent complementary colours are invaluable to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxton
I have moved to using varying pen thickness's in other pictures but I have found they still seem flat to me due to the colours


atm I am googling stock photos for my backgrounds. do people normally just pull them out of their mind meats?
That's pretty much the end game for art. You're basically doing reference paintings and studies all the time so that you can pull them out of your mind when you need them. I still use references for a lot of things, and when I don't it really, really shows. Many amazing artists still use references as a basic guide but the final product won't resemble anything like their reference, so they just use it as a guide and then create from their imagination, or even other references (for example, a reference of a human, then a reference of a bird wing for an angel or something).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxton
actually this is something I had considered doing, However I had thought my weakness was in not understanding colours and perspective when I posted this. Do you think my characterisation could be vastly improved but going to some life study sessions? I have been dabbling in drawing for ages but have never done any formal lessons (never did art at highschool).
The single most important thing I think you can do is take life study classes. It, in my opinion, is the core and when you've got a strong core everything else can feed off of it. Another bonus is that if you take a public class, you'll be around likeminded individuals and can feed off of them, gaining and giving information. There is absolutely no negative to doing it, and the rate you progress will be astronomical when compared to not doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxton
so helpful. Seriously. You have put a voice to the murmuring noise in the back of my head.
Main question is what is the best approach to improve on these areas (or learn them outright ) My goal is not to be a professional artist or nuffing but I intend to be drawing for the rest of my life and since I started trying up my game and draw whole images have been fairly unhappy at where my ability is sitting.
I think, in my opinion, if you want to just keep this up as a hobby and be happy with your end results, life study classes are at the top of the list of things to do, but I wouldn't discount Googling colour theory and focal points for drawing. You don't need to go deep into those topics, but a general understanding will take you far.
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Old 6th March 2013, 10:25     #13
mpx
     .
 
My Instagram isn't really for my proper art, it's literally just where I post 10 - 15 minute sketches when I have downtime at work (and I usually am drawing them on the back of Notes of Evidence haha). I think if you go back far enough there's actual art in there. I'll also give you the names of the amazing artists I follow. They are my direct source of inspiration and are super nice people too.

zeocen (that's me)

_h_g_art

12thcup (You may enjoy this guy, usually pen works, but great style)

teubchen

elvintattoo (although a tattoo artist, his progression on making the art for tattooing is simply jaw-dropping. All he uses is a red mechanical pencil and it's outstanding)

glennarthurart

everyone_rvins

alexlouisa_

becwinnel (my favourite artist, pumps out SO much detail in such SMALL pieces, it blows me away)
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Old 6th March 2013, 10:38     #14
mpx
     .
 
Actually I'll just find some images and post them, because there's a lot of shit on my Instagram


This was after a serious study of skulls, I felt I had enough knowledge that I could make a stylised skull and I think it worked out pretty well. It's just ballpoint pen but I was quite happy and it's a good example of learning the basics so that I'm able to break the rules and stylise it to my 'style'.


Same deal with a butterfly, I had studied them a little bit and then was able to create my own with the understanding of how their wings worked, etc, and make a stylised version.


Another example, this time with an ugly hairless cat. After some studies I was able to make an ugly hairless cat look like he's had a hard day's work and is topping it off with a Martini! So it's not quite 'life like' but it still resembles the cat in question, with a cartoony/stylistic twist.


So yeah, hopefully those bad examples give you an idea of what I mean by having life art study as a reference point and being able to put your own spin on it, breaking certain rules because you understand them and so on.
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Old 6th March 2013, 14:09     #15
Baxton
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
For example, I pretty much never make a shadow just a darker shade of the colour that's in the shade. So say if it was a yellow shirt, I wouldn't make it just a darker yellow, or black. It looks too flat and unnatural, I would use the complimentary colour which is purple/violet, it gives off the feeling that the shade is cool from the yellow heat, and has a real feeling of shade and depth. Learning the basic colour wheel and subsequent complementary colours are invaluable to me.
o yea I see what you mean. that site looks interesting. I might google and sit down and see what I can work through. Something I have wanted to do for ages is something really bright but also dark. Kinda like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Feel_Sick but I always seem to get stuck matching the bright colours and darks together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
That's pretty much the end game for art. You're basically doing reference paintings and studies all the time so that you can pull them out of your mind when you need them. I still use references for a lot of things, and when I don't it really, really shows. Many amazing artists still use references as a basic guide but the final product won't resemble anything like their reference, so they just use it as a guide and then create from their imagination, or even other references (for example, a reference of a human, then a reference of a bird wing for an angel or something).
I understand. actually understanding how the thing is proportioned so you can position it how you want? I wanted a pirate ship for this picture so just based it off a stock photo. It ended up completly determining how the background image was layed out instead of fitting into it.
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...38289964_n.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpx
The single most important thing I think you can do is take life study classes. It, in my opinion, is the core and when you've got a strong core everything else can feed off of it. Another bonus is that if you take a public class, you'll be around likeminded individuals and can feed off of them, gaining and giving information. There is absolutely no negative to doing it, and the rate you progress will be astronomical when compared to not doing it.

I think, in my opinion, if you want to just keep this up as a hobby and be happy with your end results, life study classes are at the top of the list of things to do, but I wouldn't discount Googling colour theory and focal points for drawing. You don't need to go deep into those topics, but a general understanding will take you far.
I have never bothered to really sit down and study anything before I start drawing. Even people. I think I will check around for some classes. in the short term I might get my drawing pads out and start drawing various pics of stuff to see if I can get the image right without faking it and just drawing a cartoon.

Man thanks for your feedback. those pics of yours really show me far I have to go. The fact you seem to know just where to put the shading and how to use the white space to fill the image amazes me. also the line thickness to emphasise areas of the pics. Gave me a good dose of art wood.
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Old 8th July 2013, 23:20     #16
mpx
     .
 
How's it going, Baxton? Got any new stuff to show us?
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Old 28th January 2015, 18:08     #17
[fe]
 
Speaking of Painting. Figured I'd do something for the wall. Didn't want to stress too much about subject, and kept the style pretty basic (stained glass) for fun = zelda pic.

Left. The reference, I think its a screen from Zelda: Minish Cap
Center. The start. used PVA to mask out the general areas before intial undercoat. Worked pretty good.
Right. Result. Few bits to tidy but otherwise ok.



Had me thinking about a Metroid piece. No stained glass though, once is enough.
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Old 28th January 2015, 19:03     #18
Spoon1
Mmm... Sacrilicious
 
Looks good man!

How big is it?
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Old 28th January 2015, 22:30     #19
[fe]
 
/grabs tape

1.0m x 0.5m. Canvas.
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Old 18th February 2015, 13:28     #20
chiQ
Frag-muff
 
Nice work, Eddie
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