Labour Thus Far.... - Page 11

Lightspeed · 23rd May 2018, 17:58

The whole thing is just bullshit theatre. Our politics don't seem to allow us to approach these hard problems honestly. We've either got National's dishonest "there's no problem" or Labour's dishonest "this is a problem we can fix this year".

We can fix it, but any solution would take a generation at least, but only if people making bank on houses were willing to give up that cash cow, many of whom are politicians, or support them.

As I see it the first step is raising children with the ability and willingness to enter the building industry. At the moment too many kids are going to jail, hospital or the morgue instead of going to work. Importing labour only escalates the problem.

While that's going on we work on issues of land supply and infrastructure to support higher population density.

But as soon as we approach these problems, so quickly we'll hear the Mark Robertsons, Mike Hoskings or whoever crying about how they can come up with this fringe case or that where someone will miss out. Indifferent of course to the volume of people already missing out.

Partisanship is another part of the problem. For some it's only shameful that National denied the problem or that Labour made out they could solve it.

Ab · 23rd May 2018, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

The houses will be restricted to first time buyers. Which is not to say that there aren't ways around that, such as shill buyers.

Oh right. Still fucked though.

CCS · 23rd May 2018, 19:22

I wonder if a corporate entity can buy these houses.

BoyWonder · 24th May 2018, 00:01

Seriously, isn't it time to tax empty houses (provided it is practical to enforce).

The result as I see it is: 1) an increase in supply of rental properties helping those at the bottom of the ladder; 2) put more houses on the market easing some pressure there (at least in the short term); 3) deter crime (a neighbourhood is made up of people, not derelict houses); 4) divert investment money into businesses employing people.

The cons: "But what about my bach?" Put it on airbnb, you'll be fine.

Ab · 24th May 2018, 13:00

Labour just cut funding to universities in real terms

http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot....ent-blues.html

StN · 24th May 2018, 19:44

Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

BoyWonder · 24th May 2018, 20:42

Phil is probably wondering what it takes to get fired. Next he will charge the cockpit door and see if that's the path to freedom.

Ab · 25th May 2018, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN

Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

are we talking about the guy who called for Gerry Brownlee's head when Brownlee bypassed an airport security screening?

fixed_truth · 25th May 2018, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyWonder

Seriously, isn't it time to tax empty houses (provided it is practical to enforce).

The result as I see it is: 1) an increase in supply of rental properties helping those at the bottom of the ladder; 2) put more houses on the market easing some pressure there (at least in the short term); 3) deter crime (a neighbourhood is made up of people, not derelict houses); 4) divert investment money into businesses employing people.

The cons: "But what about my bach?" Put it on airbnb, you'll be fine.

Yes

blynk · 25th May 2018, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN

Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

Not that a fly a lot. But I never realised the closing of the doors signalled the ending of phone use.

I assume this must have happened after the flight crew walked down telling everyone to put away their stuff.

blynk · 25th May 2018, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

are we talking about the guy who called for Gerry Brownlee's head when Brownlee bypassed an airport security screening?

If that is the case, he did offer his resignation.
If Adern was calling for Brownlee's head, then that would be hyprocrisy

fixed_truth · 26th May 2018, 19:22

Breaking News!!?! Transport Minister Phil Twyford accused of standing on plane while seatbelt light on

Quote:

National MP Judith Collins says Transport Minister Phil Twyford stood up on a plane while the seatbelt sign was on to put his jacket in an overhead locker.

What I cunt, I bet he hogged the armrests and took a handful of lollies too.

Ab · 27th May 2018, 00:05

BAN HIM

CCS · 27th May 2018, 10:02

Remember when Judith Collins had a sip of milk and everyone lost their shit?

Ab · 27th May 2018, 13:32

Remember when Phil Twyford promised to build lots of houses and fix the housing crisis

Lightspeed · 27th May 2018, 16:44

Remember when National's police minister tried to interfere in a police case on behalf of a party donor?

Ab · 27th May 2018, 21:27

Was his name William Yan?

Lightspeed · 27th May 2018, 22:28

No, it was a different Chinese businessmen with his tendrils in NZ politics.

Ab · 5th June 2018, 23:04

this is a very sensible way of formulating energy and economic policy

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104...il-exploration

Lightspeed · 5th June 2018, 23:46

We didn't seem concerned 12 months ago that National didn't have a plan in the eventuality we don't find oil... Were we concerned about that? I can't recall anyone going "hey, that's great we're looking for oil, but what happens if we don't find it?"

Ab · 8th June 2018, 23:19

Labour opens Cabinet Club

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/1045...-private-clubs

fixed_truth · 11th June 2018, 15:26

Winston not supporting 3 strikes repeal. Shame because it's a bad law. It will be interesting to see if this will lift NZ first again and maybe win over some soft National supporters liking his keeping of the govt. in check.

Ab · 11th June 2018, 17:55

Incompetence from Little. That law change would have sparked an NZ First revolt and cost Labour government.

blynk · 12th June 2018, 13:29

Its interesting to hear different sides of this.

Obviously the right about how dysfunctional the government is etc.
And a view of the left, how Labour & NZF come out looking good.
Labour tried, but it was NZF that said no so looks good to their base, and that NZF said no so that looks good to their base.

And it takes some of the wind out of the sails of National at the next election.

Ab · 27th June 2018, 11:54

Quote:

Public reporting of District Health Boards' (DHB) performance of procedures including elective surgeries, cancer treatment times and Emergency Department wait times, has been axed.

It also appears a new project to publicly measure elective surgery referrals and rejections has also been quietly shelved, with the Ministry of Health failing to release updated figures since the election.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...health-targets

What the actual fuck?

Lightspeed · 27th June 2018, 15:53

Public healthcare is doing so well, we don't need to report on it. Jonathan Coleman must rue taking on work at a private healthcare provider, how will they be able to compete with public health?

Ab · 28th June 2018, 12:41

Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

fixed_truth · 28th June 2018, 12:56

I have no problem with outcome measures being more useful. For example the current system seems to result in more cheaper interventions to boost statistics rather than spending on what interventions have the best & most durable health benefits.

Lightspeed · 28th June 2018, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

So they're maintaining the status quo.

Cyberbob · 28th June 2018, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

I'm most concerned about the lack of accountability and transparency.

CCS · 28th June 2018, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

So they're maintaining the status quo.

Oh? I thought they were going to be transformational.

[Malks] Pixie · 28th June 2018, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

As someone said, status quo. But seriously there are big fucking problems with the idea of ONLY using evidence based policy.

This is old, and refers to National, but the core ideas are applicable across any government in power.

Fear the Datatopia

Choice quotes that summarise the problem - but I encourage folks to read the entire thing. It's Keith Ng, he's almost always a good read.

Quote:

What if the US civil rights movement was assessed like this?

The changes in wellbeing for African-Americans don’t show up for years, but racial violence spiked as a direct response to the reforms. From the evidence, it looked like the civil rights reforms wasn’t making people’s lives better and was actually causing violence! So it should be abandoned – right?

Quote:

But most policies are going to be much lamer: There is insufficient evidence to prove that a thing which should work in theory is, in fact, working. Should we push through that?

There are several reasons why there might not be evidence. We could be measuring the wrong things, we could be measuring the right things in the wrong way, or maybe it actually just doesn’t work.

Quote:

But a cornerstone of the scientific method is the null hypothesis: The assumption that nope, that drug doesn’t cure cancer; nope, the Higg Boson isn’t there; and nope, the policy doesn’t work. The null hypothesis is the default – like “innocent until proven guilty”, it’s presumed that things don’t cure cancer until it’s proven that it does. It’s a great standard for science, but it’s a catastrophic principle to apply to government.

Quote:

Science is about challenging, acquiring, and testing knowledge. It loses nothing from being uncertain, but false knowledge can lead science astray for years, even centuries. That’s why the scientific method is skeptical and conservative by design.

Governance is about making decisions with imperfect knowledge. They have to be best guesses because inaction can be as catastrophic as incorrect action, and because sometimes solid knowledge is hard to come by.

Lightspeed · 28th June 2018, 23:37

I think Curran has to go.

Advisory Group notes meeting subject to OIA, stops taking minutes

This is what I expect from National, except they're better at it.

Lightspeed · 28th June 2018, 23:46

To be clear, mainly cause this was such a dumb move and a waste of talent and this seems like more of the same:

Carol Hirschfeld resigns from Radio New Zealand after controversial meeting with Broadcasting Minister

Ab · 29th June 2018, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

So they're maintaining the status quo.

Wtf

Lightspeed · 29th June 2018, 01:22

Is it that you never heard about National neglecting to gather evidence, or you just didn't believe those who made the claim? You took their evidence based policy on face value, accepted that it was a genuine attempt to use robust and appropriate measures to inform policy. Not a tactic to muzzle criticism of unpopular policies because after all they're just following the evidence, *arms folded*, /smug look.

Ab · 7th July 2018, 14:21

Kiwibuild trainwreck keeps on trainwreckin

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-for-all.html

crocos · 8th July 2018, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I think Curran has to go.

Advisory Group notes meeting subject to OIA, stops taking minutes

This is what I expect from National, except they're better at it.

Also Trevor the Duck is the worst speaker ever.

fixed_truth · 9th July 2018, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Kiwibuild trainwreck keeps on trainwreckin

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-for-all.html

I think Nationals do nothing housing policy is why families on higher incomes are still 'first home buyers'.

A positive is that they're on track to meet targets so far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...housing-market

Juju · 9th July 2018, 10:35

See, everyone is winging about how the income cap is high for these kiwibuild homes, and the lower class are going to have to compete with the middle class to get into the program.

No one is pointing out the fact that these kiwibuild homes are going to cost between $500-650k.
Let's assume the lower class people have put together a very healthy $100k deposit.

That's a $500k mortgage for a 2 bedroom kiwibuild. Or $690 per week@6%. That's $140 more than the rent for any 2 bedroom house in South Auckland that's on trademe right now.

With a lower class couple earning $60k between them, that's $925 per week, or $235 p/w after the mortgage.
Take out rates ($30 per week), water ($20), power ($50) - that's $135 left for everything else - food, petrol, clothing.

Let's say you only need a 10% deposit. Then your mortgage is $747 per week... which leaves you with $178 per week for everything else.

I'm not sure those lower incomers crowing about how "unfair" the eligibility criteria understand the ramifications of what they are asking for.

Ps: I hate that house prices have become so un-affordable that it's a pipe dream for the majority of the population now, it really sucks. I'm just pointing out that the media has, once again, focused on the "oh woe is me" narrative rather that the blunt, and shitty, reality of the real world.

23rd May 2018, 19:22	#403
CCS Stunt Pants	I wonder if a corporate entity can buy these houses. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

27th May 2018, 10:02	#414
CCS Stunt Pants	Remember when Judith Collins had a sip of milk and everyone lost their shit? __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

8th June 2018, 23:19	#421
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	o/meet the new boss Labour opens Cabinet Club http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/1045...-private-clubs

23rd May 2018, 17:58	#401
Lightspeed	The whole thing is just bullshit theatre. Our politics don't seem to allow us to approach these hard problems honestly. We've either got National's dishonest "there's no problem" or Labour's dishonest "this is a problem we can fix this year". We can fix it, but any solution would take a generation at least, but only if people making bank on houses were willing to give up that cash cow, many of whom are politicians, or support them. As I see it the first step is raising children with the ability and willingness to enter the building industry. At the moment too many kids are going to jail, hospital or the morgue instead of going to work. Importing labour only escalates the problem. While that's going on we work on issues of land supply and infrastructure to support higher population density. But as soon as we approach these problems, so quickly we'll hear the Mark Robertsons, Mike Hoskings or whoever crying about how they can come up with this fringe case or that where someone will miss out. Indifferent of course to the volume of people already missing out. Partisanship is another part of the problem. For some it's only shameful that National denied the problem or that Labour made out they could solve it. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

24th May 2018, 00:01	#404
BoyWonder	Seriously, isn't it time to tax empty houses (provided it is practical to enforce). The result as I see it is: 1) an increase in supply of rental properties helping those at the bottom of the ladder; 2) put more houses on the market easing some pressure there (at least in the short term); 3) deter crime (a neighbourhood is made up of people, not derelict houses); 4) divert investment money into businesses employing people. The cons: "But what about my bach?" Put it on airbnb, you'll be fine.

24th May 2018, 13:00	#405
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Labour just cut funding to universities in real terms http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot....ent-blues.html

24th May 2018, 19:44	#406
StN I have detailed files	Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

24th May 2018, 20:42	#407
BoyWonder	Phil is probably wondering what it takes to get fired. Next he will charge the cockpit door and see if that's the path to freedom.

27th May 2018, 00:05	#413
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	BAN HIM

27th May 2018, 13:32	#415
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Remember when Phil Twyford promised to build lots of houses and fix the housing crisis

27th May 2018, 16:44	#416
Lightspeed	Remember when National's police minister tried to interfere in a police case on behalf of a party donor? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

27th May 2018, 21:27	#417
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Was his name William Yan?

27th May 2018, 22:28	#418
Lightspeed	No, it was a different Chinese businessmen with his tendrils in NZ politics. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

5th June 2018, 23:04	#419
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	this is a very sensible way of formulating energy and economic policy https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104...il-exploration

5th June 2018, 23:46	#420
Lightspeed	We didn't seem concerned 12 months ago that National didn't have a plan in the eventuality we don't find oil... Were we concerned about that? I can't recall anyone going "hey, that's great we're looking for oil, but what happens if we don't find it?" __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

11th June 2018, 15:26	#422
fixed_truth	Winston not supporting 3 strikes repeal. Shame because it's a bad law. It will be interesting to see if this will lift NZ first again and maybe win over some soft National supporters liking his keeping of the govt. in check. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

11th June 2018, 17:55	#423
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Incompetence from Little. That law change would have sparked an NZ First revolt and cost Labour government.

12th June 2018, 13:29	#424
blynk	Its interesting to hear different sides of this. Obviously the right about how dysfunctional the government is etc. And a view of the left, how Labour & NZF come out looking good. Labour tried, but it was NZF that said no so looks good to their base, and that NZF said no so that looks good to their base. And it takes some of the wind out of the sails of National at the next election.

27th June 2018, 15:53	#426
Lightspeed	Public healthcare is doing so well, we don't need to report on it. Jonathan Coleman must rue taking on work at a private healthcare provider, how will they be able to compete with public health? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

28th June 2018, 12:41	#427
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

28th June 2018, 12:56	#428
fixed_truth	I have no problem with outcome measures being more useful. For example the current system seems to result in more cheaper interventions to boost statistics rather than spending on what interventions have the best & most durable health benefits. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

28th June 2018, 23:37	#433
Lightspeed	I think Curran has to go. Advisory Group notes meeting subject to OIA, stops taking minutes This is what I expect from National, except they're better at it. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

28th June 2018, 23:46	#434
Lightspeed	To be clear, mainly cause this was such a dumb move and a waste of talent and this seems like more of the same: Carol Hirschfeld resigns from Radio New Zealand after controversial meeting with Broadcasting Minister __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

29th June 2018, 01:22	#436
Lightspeed	Is it that you never heard about National neglecting to gather evidence, or you just didn't believe those who made the claim? You took their evidence based policy on face value, accepted that it was a genuine attempt to use robust and appropriate measures to inform policy. Not a tactic to muzzle criticism of unpopular policies because after all they're just following the evidence, arms folded, /smug look. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

7th July 2018, 14:21	#437
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Kiwibuild trainwreck keeps on trainwreckin https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-for-all.html

9th July 2018, 10:35	#440
Juju get to da choppa	See, everyone is winging about how the income cap is high for these kiwibuild homes, and the lower class are going to have to compete with the middle class to get into the program. No one is pointing out the fact that these kiwibuild homes are going to cost between $500-650k. Let's assume the lower class people have put together a very healthy $100k deposit. That's a $500k mortgage for a 2 bedroom kiwibuild. Or $690 per week@6%. That's $140 more than the rent for any 2 bedroom house in South Auckland that's on trademe right now. With a lower class couple earning $60k between them, that's $925 per week, or $235 p/w after the mortgage. Take out rates ($30 per week), water ($20), power ($50) - that's $135 left for everything else - food, petrol, clothing. Let's say you only need a 10% deposit. Then your mortgage is $747 per week... which leaves you with $178 per week for everything else. I'm not sure those lower incomers crowing about how "unfair" the eligibility criteria understand the ramifications of what they are asking for. Ps: I hate that house prices have become so un-affordable that it's a pipe dream for the majority of the population now, it really sucks. I'm just pointing out that the media has, once again, focused on the "oh woe is me" narrative rather that the blunt, and shitty, reality of the real world.