National Thus Far

[Ab]

Exactly. Although a female-female pair would certainly be a powerful statement.

[Cyberbob]

Many of my favourite videos start exactly like that.

[spigalau]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

Many of my favourite videos start exactly like that.

Only a pair ? Last time I checked out your back catalog was based on the more the merrier...

[ZoSo]

Powerful statement to who? lefty crones who'll never vote for National anyway? let's not follow the ridiculous left on that one. Best person for the job and all. I mean Ardern couldn't even get 50/50 going in their new cabinet, so we know that shit is fake and worthless, even on their side.

What they need is someone who still knows you need to drag the center, ala Key & English (scratch Collins) and can do good interviews with the left-leaning shitty nz political commentators and opinion writers and survive the couple of fake independent gotchya types. (scratch Amy & Bridges)
Haven't heard Mitchell much tbh, so who knows.. but him and maybe Kaye (though probably Amy), could be interesting (if you have any inclination of maintaining anywhere near 40%+ and not going full retard on politcal theatre with Collins).

Apparently Collins is low on numbers, Bridges has the most so far and the backbenchers want Mitchell. Probably fake news though.

edit: Just reading Mitchell's entry now. Like what he's saying.

[CCS]

I'd like a Judith Collins / Mark Mitchell combo.

[DrTiTus]

Upsize for an extra 50c?

[blynk]

Originally Posted by ZoSo

Powerful statement to who? lefty crones who'll never vote for National anyway? let's not follow the ridiculous left on that one. Best person for the job and all. I mean Ardern couldn't even get 50/50 going in their new cabinet, so we know that shit is fake and worthless, even on their side.

Yep, a woman/woman combo would may cause a lot of right leaning people to not vote National. But, that could actually help. They might go to ACT. then some middle leaning would go back to National.

Originally Posted by ZoSo

What they need is someone who still knows you need to drag the center, ala Key & English

Key yes. English hmmm. Maybe only because he was under JK for so long.

[ZoSo]

Originally Posted by blynk

Yep, a woman/woman combo would may cause a lot of right leaning people to not vote National.

What exactly do you base that on? small % of religious tossers stuck in the past? maybe some hicks in the sticks? or are you listening to a dozen or so drugged up talkbalk listeners or something? (who does that). My point is I don't think most even think like that anymore. Powerful statements, gender balance, co leadership etc is the domain of the easily indoctrinated and the chattering class. Women have proven themselves more than capable for ages now and if they have merit and support, they get the chance in National. Sometimes too quickly and above their depth, to their detriment.
I don't see any probs with a woman combo, if they're right and capable for the job and can front. If Amy is one of the the current frontrunners and has the backing of Kaye, that's easily a possibility already. So it just amuses me.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by CCS

I'd like a Judith Collins / Mark Mitchell combo.

Mark Mitchell seems viable, in a scary way.

[Lightspeed]

Simon Bridges eh? I can't tell if that's good (for the country/running of government), bad or irrelevant...

[Juju]

Good for you, bad for National. In my opinion, he's a relic of the old style of politician. Slimy, full of sound bites, loves teh oil. Has sod all charisma and is too far right leaning for most of NZ that isn't within 20 years of dying.
I won't be voting National for as long as he is leader.

[ZoSo]

Pretty meh. Probably white anted English, so too dumb to be a good leader, wanks on about generational change etc. Probably easy to be knifed labour styles though after a shitty effort.

[Juju]

Originally Posted by ZoSo

Pretty meh. Probably white anted English, so too dumb to be a good leader, wanks on about generational change etc. Probably easy to be knifed labour styles though after a shitty effort.

Part of me almost wonders if they have thrown him under the bus on purpose, to give who ever replaces him more of a popular vote boost for the simple fact that they aren't him.

[fixed_truth]

Not an entirely terrible combo, but Bridges is a gamble because if the polls continue to show Labour as more popular than National then more & more will jump on the bandwagon. Also at least they have their pulse on public popularity & didn't go with Collins.

Originally Posted by Juju

Part of me almost wonders if they have thrown him under the bus on purpose, to give who ever replaces him more of a popular vote boost for the simple fact that they aren't him.

True, like bring in Nikki Kaye election year. Worked for Labour.

[xor]

You're forgetting how fickle the voters are though e.g. Labour surged because they swapped Little for Ardern.

I find it sad/scary that people solely focus on the person rather than the policies.

[ZoSo]

Don't we all. But you see how everyone packs a sad when someone like Hosking grills them on policy, then they cheer on as Wells fucking embarrasses himself and the politicians for social media pats on the back. That's just how it is.

[CCS]

The next three years wills be very boring.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by pxpx

I'm picking Bridges for leader, not really sure why.

Yay I guess? Mostly just meh.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by xor

You're forgetting how fickle the voters are though e.g. Labour surged because they swapped Little for Ardern.

I find it sad/scary that people solely focus on the person rather than the policies.

Yeah, it's why many politicians want to undermine journalists and academics, and it's why I get furious when it happens. It's why I'm furious at National's anti-intellectual bent and not particularly excited about Labour being in government. It's not like NZ voters suddenly woke up and decided, shit we need to smarten up and start pulling finger. We voted for the nice lady.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

We voted for the nice lady.

More people voted for the Farmer from Dipton

[Lightspeed]

Sure. What I mean to say is Labour is in government because a bunch of people decided to vote for the nice lady, enabling the old nationalist to tag them in along with that guy who leads the Greens.

[pxpx]

Succinctly put

[fixed_truth]

The first baby boomer publicly whining because Collins missed out.

Barry Soper: National selecting Simon Bridges counts itself out of next election

[crocos]

Bah, all they need to do is hold a last minute party leadership switch to Amy Adams 2 months before the election.

THEATRE! - that's all the public side of NZ politics is really about nowadays.

[Lightspeed]

Savage put down that desk as soon as he got in the front door, politics has always had an element of theatre to it.

But I do think we've come to a point where politicians do what they can to undermine intelligent discourse and accountability. I see that due to the rise of the right across the world. Austerity "saves money", and also keeps people too wound up in our day-to-day to generate insight about our circumstances, leaving us vulnerable to easy answers. Demanding evidence while neglecting research leaves politicians free to act on their own authority.

I accept my position is biased and welcome alternative insight.

[Ab]

National led by two Maori MPs? What is the world coming to?

[fixed_truth]

Steven Joyce and the turning of the tide

Pretty fair assessment. Like Key, English and their ilk, they're great at politicking but at the end of the day achieved comparatively little and went out with a heap of political capital still in the bank.

Through it all he also displayed a clearer eye for what middle New Zealand wanted and valued than just about anyone, reading the polls with acuity. He got close in 2005, won three and then marked his card with losses in Northland in 2015 and at last year's general election. At both, Winston Peters was his bogeyman. Northland was a major SNAFU and his bridges promise a terrible misjudgement. One one hand last year's election was a bid to break the nine year rule and no-one canbe surprised he wasn't able to do it, but his desperate $11.7b hole ploy will be remembered for its dishonesty and cyncism. National supporters may think he rolled the dice and took one for the team, but more fair-minded voters should be less forgiving.

Still, an almost ten year career in which he was only not a minister for a matter of months? That's gold. Many brilliant MPs would crawl over hot coals for such a career. Who could wish for anything more?

[Lightspeed]

National MPs: Time to cash in all those favours!

[CCS]

The deadwood taking the hint and fucking off.

[ZoSo]

https://thestandard.org.nz/we-need-m...-steven-joyce/

Did someone hack the stranded? ban and deletion incoming.

[blynk]

And another one bites the dust

[BoyWonder]

Good. I thought it was nuts giving him back the health portfolio.

[Lightspeed]

One has to wonder how despite so many demonstrable faults of the National government they still managed to get so many votes last election...

[Ab]

Because their policies speak to the people who live in most of the country.

[fixed_truth]

I'd be really surprised if many voters could name more than 1 or 2 National policies. National were good at portraying themselves as prudent economic managers and that Labour want to take your money and give it to lazy bludgers.

It's only now people are seeing more and more first hand through our education & health systems, housing, who is benefiting from 'economic growth' etc etc that National aren't all they're cracked up to be.

An important lesson here is not to get stuck on the cost of running the public sector, but rather let's look at the cost of NOT investing resources here.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Because their policies speak to the people who live in most of the country.

That's your assessment of politics in NZ right now? People vote for the party whose policies speak to them? Nothing else to it? Is that how it works everywhere, or just NZ?

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

I'd be really surprised if many voters could name more than 1 or 2 National policies. National were good at portraying themselves as prudent economic managers and that Labour want to take your money and give it to lazy bludgers.

It's pretty easy to name Labour policies, pick a word out of the dictionary and put "Kiwi" in front of it

[Ab]

More people voted for National than for Labour at the last election, and people in more of the country voted for National than for Labour at the last election. I don't see why those mathematical facts are so hard to accept.

Edit update: brain reminded me of this article.

[fixed_truth]

If your point is just that National got more votes then Labour then well, whoop-dee-do. Fpp mathematics don't matter in Mmp. More people voted for the current Govt. than National. And yes, if you give your vote to NZ First when he's made it clear he could go either way then you're voting for whatever coalition they make.

[pxpx]

mmp is at times undemocratic there I said it.
(fpp is not much better/possibly even less)