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Old 7th September 2022, 13:23     #2841
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Hey remember the hookers who used fake IDs to get into Northland for the Mongrel Mob, taking the govt by surprise and necessitating a lockdown of the entire region?

Turns out none of that shit was true
No, I don't recall it.

Was it some kind of media beat-up that got people excited, compelling a government response?
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Old 7th September 2022, 13:53     #2842
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
With her powers of #aroha Jacinda throws Hipkins under the bus:

Quote:
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern referred questions on the Government blunder that sent Northland into an 11-day lockdown to former Covid Minister Chris Hipkins.

New documents released under the Official Information Act have revealed the truth about the highly publicised case of three women who travelled from Auckland to Northland in October 2021 in the midst of a Delta outbreak, putting Northland into an alert level 3 lockdown.

The OIA papers show the women - who had earlier been blamed for using "false information" to get travel permits - had no links to gangs and weren't sex workers, as had been suggested, and their permit had been approved in error.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/chris-...DETVUW3JR5P3I/
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Old 7th September 2022, 14:00     #2843
Lightspeed
 
o_O

Quote:
the highly publicised case of three women
Who was doing the publicising? Where did the idea that gangs and sex workers were involved come from?

Are those things that would catch attention, perhaps generating clicks?
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Old 7th September 2022, 14:06     #2844
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Sounds like a clusterfuck of fail:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...SMWHOP4FSVCO4/

The issue is, all the cooker convoy nuts now have proof that a non-zero percentage of the things that the Govt said about COVID and the lockdown requirements were untrue and the Govt knew they were untrue when it said them.
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Old 7th September 2022, 14:27     #2845
Lightspeed
 
So which media beat-up should I believe? The former one was bullshit, but this time, I definitely should listen?
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Old 7th September 2022, 14:30     #2846
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Whoever's handling OIA requests for the Ministry of Health better get out the black redacty pen. They'll be coming in thick and fast.
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Old 7th September 2022, 15:50     #2847
Lightspeed
 
What was in the media at the time? I had a look back on this thread, if it caught our attention maybe we were discussing it elsewhere.
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Old 7th September 2022, 16:43     #2848
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
I vaguely remember StN making a subtle joke about it or mentioning it somehow, but I don't recall the exact phrase. I definitely remember the story/rumours at the time.

I think I'd tend to believe an OIA response rather than a Stuff story written during peak COVID hysteria when people would cross the road to avoid being anywhere near you, and would spray their shopping/mail with disinfectant and hand sanitizer was being scalped on Trade Me. But you can decide for yourself.
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Old 7th September 2022, 17:30     #2849
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
What was in the media at the time? I had a look back on this thread, if it caught our attention maybe we were discussing it elsewhere.
From a quick scan, discussion of it started about here.
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:22     #2850
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
I vaguely remember StN making a subtle joke about it or mentioning it somehow, but I don't recall the exact phrase. I definitely remember the story/rumours at the time.
When it comes to subtle, not some of my best work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
I believe the term is "Rootbag".
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Old 8th September 2022, 10:04     #2851
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I’d forgotten the vampire’s involvement.
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Old 8th September 2022, 16:57     #2852
Lightspeed
 
Ah I see, somehow I missed the big, bold word "sluts" when looking back.

So the women in that article weren't "prossys"? And there weren't any such people involved in the first place? Did I also miss who the NZH citied as the source of their information? Was it the MoH?
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Old 8th September 2022, 17:35     #2853
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
COVID response Minister Chris Hipkins, press conference, Oct 8
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Old 8th September 2022, 17:40     #2854
Lightspeed
 
https://covid19.govt.nz/news-and-dat...-october-2021/

Quote:
Media: Newshub’s been told that the woman is a sex worker. Can you confirm that?

Hon Chris Hipkins: No, I can’t.
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Old 9th September 2022, 12:03     #2855
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
summary:
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/09/t...apologise.html
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Old 9th September 2022, 12:49     #2856
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
The women were despised from one end of New Zealand to another. The Minister himself said they had falsified information so they were criminals. The rumours about being gang affiliates and sex workers were treated more credibly because the Minister had told us they lied on their application forms.
So who got wind of the error, started calling up the media saying these women were sex workers, setting the media on the government?

The NZH article was unambiguous: these women were sex workers.

Where is the accountability for publishing unverified information as factual? Who was the source multiple media sources citied?

Or are we just eating up what we're being served?
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Old 9th September 2022, 13:57     #2857
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
The Minister in charge of the COVID response said something false about the justification for a lockdown in an official press conference, and even after being formally briefed that what he said was not true, he "stands by his statements" and refuses to apologise.

What dogs hear: government's COVID response based on lies
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Old 9th September 2022, 15:16     #2858
Lightspeed
 
You've strained out the media's lie about sex workers and the potential consequences of that during a pandemic from the story.

IF the sex worker angle wasn't introduced, I doubt we would have heard about this. Surely other mistakes happened that were rectified behind the scenes, or were just let to slide because there were bigger things to deal with.

But someone got wind of this mistake. With indifference to how this might impact people and their decision making during a pandemic, the lives that might be put at risk, they contacted the media and informed them that there were sex workers crossing borders. And the media trusted their source enough to make the allegation during a conference that was of acute public interest.

Hipkins responses he is talking about includes fending off the bullshit the media were slinging. Surely what was actually happening behind the scenes was everyone was scrambling to understand and digest the situation while also juggling everything else they had going on. I doubt Hipkins made a decision to lie. Surely he spent the time leading up to the conference trying to ascertain allegations of sex work.

It's inappropriate for Hipkins to apologise, at least not before there's some serious contrition from NZH and NewsHub.

Who was selling this lie? The one that even now is paying dividends?
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Old 9th September 2022, 15:38     #2859
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Why are you so fixated on the prostitution allegation?

"We had to lockdown because some criminals used fraudulent documents to enter the area illegally" was the explanation. It was made by a Minister of the government at a live government press conference. It wasn't true. The minister concerned stands by it even though his own Ministry has said "nah, that was bullshit". For fuck knows how long the government ran with a message of "ignore everything you hear about COVID except for what you hear from us, which is trustworthy, because it comes from us". And now we know it wasn't.
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Old 9th September 2022, 15:42     #2860
Lightspeed
 
Because that's why it was brought up in the conference. Clearly media were going to run a story about prostitutes crossing borders and Hipkins had to get ahead of that. Obviously Hipkins fucked up in the scramble, but he didn't start the scramble.

Why would the lie about prostitutes be in the mix otherwise?
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Old 10th September 2022, 10:52     #2861
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Why would the lie about prostitutes be in the mix otherwise?
Yeah - smells of something bigger that is being kept buried. Big enough that they are willing to take the hit on the whole lie thing.
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Old 12th September 2022, 19:22     #2862
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
The bed wetters are freaking out that suddenly other people don't have to wear masks, and their vaccine will be ineffective unless everyone obeys today's rules tomorrow.

It's quite a spectacle.

I'm starting to think they don't believe in Science. Bloody anti vaxers.
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Old 12th September 2022, 19:53     #2863
fixed_truth
 
Link? Are you talking about people in poor health as I've literally not come across one person (on or off-line) that's wants to keep wearing masks for health reasons.
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Old 12th September 2022, 23:59     #2864
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Leftist Twitter. The pronoun brigade.
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Old 13th September 2022, 06:37     #2865
StN
I have detailed files
 
Well this redaction has come just in time for planting season - can't wait to exert my freedoms and shovel potting mix without having my airways constricted by layers of N95!!
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Old 13th September 2022, 11:42     #2866
_indigo1
 
Just gonna say it - if you base any part of your world view on twitter, you are part of the problem.

Go outside.

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Old 13th September 2022, 11:50     #2867
_indigo1
 
I have my responses ready for if someone hassles me for still wearing a mask:

1) I have COVID
2) I have an exemption
3) Cough and splutter loudly
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Old 13th September 2022, 12:31     #2868
StN
I have detailed files
 
4) Death farts from Satan's anus.
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Old 13th September 2022, 13:02     #2869
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Just point at the nearest security camera.
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Old 13th September 2022, 14:34     #2870
_indigo1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Just point at the nearest security camera.
That's too logical. I don't need to justify wearing a mask.
I have to trigger the hassler and make them feel stupid.
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Old 13th September 2022, 15:22     #2871
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _indigo1
I have my responses ready for if someone hassles me for still wearing a mask:

1) I have COVID
2) I have an exemption
3) Cough and splutter loudly
"Oh thank goodness you're ok with me not wearing a mask, I tested positive yesterday and felt uneasy about it"
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Old 13th September 2022, 16:43     #2872
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
"Oh thank goodness you're ok with me not wearing a mask, I tested positive yesterday and felt uneasy about it"
If anyone wants to do this for real? The dickhead that runs Vancy Rentals in Wellington is rabid.
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Old 13th September 2022, 17:06     #2873
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
"Oh thank goodness you're ok with me not wearing a mask, I tested positive yesterday and felt uneasy about it"
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Old 13th September 2022, 18:16     #2874
_Incubus_
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
The bed wetters are freaking out that suddenly other people don't have to wear masks, and their vaccine will be ineffective unless everyone obeys today's rules tomorrow.

It's quite a spectacle.

I'm starting to think they don't believe in Science. Bloody anti vaxers.
Life was back to no mask get on with shit in the UK when we visited in July.

Was very reassuring to know we were back in Adelaide seeing scores of people still driving around in their cars alone with masks on....
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Old 13th September 2022, 19:55     #2875
ceer
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Link? Are you talking about people in poor health as I've literally not come across one person (on or off-line) that's wants to keep wearing masks for health reasons.
I'm an essential service worker, I had a massive PE in 2011 with blood clots to the lungs. I don't want to get Covid simple as that so still wear a mask even at work if it helps me not to get it.

I'm pretty sure if I do get it then it's a high chance I die, either that or the amount of alcohol consumed tells Covid to fuck off.
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Old 14th September 2022, 18:16     #2876
Lightspeed
 
facepalm

Smarty-pants experts, who needs them?

We've said goodbye to traffic lights, please can we say goodbye to the epidemiologists

The dumb shit we see in this thread isn't just what dummies are cooking up. There's an actual anti-intellectual agenda being pushed.
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Old 14th September 2022, 18:49     #2877
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
I don't think it's anti-intellectual. I think it's anti-"treating-predictions-as-absolute-truth", when so many predictions don't come to pass, and "experts" are quite often wrong with their projections. Science also needs to accept the limits and uncertainty of our knowledge, rather than treat it as "it's science therefore it must be right - there is a [bought and paid for] consensus, and all these people can't be wrong - they are SCIENTISTS".

The same people who absolutely insist their information has to be peer reviewed and allowed to be verified before they'll even consider reading it, will take medicine fresh out of a lab based on a new formulation without being tested or knowing the side effects, and that's perfectly acceptable. It's inconsistent. Either you want certainty and to be sure that you're making the right decision or you don't.

Ignoring COVID - there are things like this where weather "experts" are unable to accurately predict what will happen THIS season, and so we should wreck our entire economy and way of life because they also say that in 100 years the planet will be warmer than it is today. And that it is all OUR fault and we need to radically disrupt life to deal with it. If the uncertainty of today is 50%, how accurate can a prediction about 100 years be? Which is not to say we shouldn't strive to be better, but we don't need to make it a trendy emergency and form a "team of 7 billion" to lockdown the global economy for 60 years and just hope we make things better.

Our "expert" central bankers can't manage inflation, our economists can't tell us we're in a recession, our climate scientists can't decide whether the Earth is warming or cooling, or predict the ice cap melt, etc. Our rocket engineers have faulty launches, our electric vehicles catch fire and crumple poorly, our hardware and software has security issues and vulnerabilities. We're only human, and humans make mistakes. We need to be mindful of that fact, and act cautiously about being too cautious.

There are definitely information controls (censorship) being applied to what citizens are able to share and say. That to me is more alarming than someone simply having a different opinion to one that I hold. I don't see "anti-intellectualism", I see "anti-debate". I see top down forcing of opinions from "experts" who are not clairvoyant, but pretend that they are. Which is more dangerous?
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Old 14th September 2022, 19:42     #2878
_indigo1
 
Sounds like you're an expert on experts. Should we listen to you?
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Old 14th September 2022, 19:58     #2879
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Not at all. You should take the brain you're blessed with and use it wisely. Different experts can have different views on things, and being described as an "expert" is a very journalistic title, usually used to imply that the viewpoint presented is something you are expected to swallow whole.

You'll be able to find contradictory information on almost anything, and it's up to you to decide which position you take, and how you respond as a result. You may choose the pragmatic option, or the paranoid option, or the nihilistic option, or the cheapest option, or the popular option, or whatever your attitude sways you toward.

But simply to say "a person described by a journalist as an expert said X, therefore X is a fundamental truth of the universe" is not a position I often take. Or you can choose not to believe me, believe everything on the news, and everything you read, and constantly change your mind based on the last thing you're told. And you're entitled to do so. But don't tell me what to do.
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Old 14th September 2022, 20:37     #2880
_indigo1
 
Sounds like an awful lot of projection to me.
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