Where to now for Labour?

[pxpx]

feeling totes cis right now that this thread is making me think I literally cant even

[Lightspeed]

So now you have an inkling of a sense of what it's like to have others tell you what you are.

[pxpx]

cis la vie!

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

What do you mean? My experience has been that parents tend to focus intently on the sex of their child and are typically excited about the prospect of gender assignment.

sex != gender

[CCS]

Twas the night before the Budget
When all through the House.
The National Back Benches were keen for a stoush
The promises were hung during the election with care
Of course they would fill them
How could they not
They wouldn't dare.
September 14 was a different time
The Back Benchers quite happy, some in their prime.
Nested all snug in their leather armchairs
John, Bill and Steven washed away all their fears
There had been promises of surpluses, of poverty relieved
Of great fiscal wonders, or so they believed.
"They've got us this fat, the Back Benchers said"
"What could possibly go wrong?"
"We're so far ahead!"
But Bill English knew, he just hid his fear
That all their good words were just plain hot air
It was great that Mike Hosking and Paul Henry were glowing
But nothing could mask an economy slowing.
"We have to do something, we have to be quick"
Said John Key to his Cabinet that had run out of tricks.
"Now Bennett, now Adams, Now Bridges and Tolley
Forget Steven Joyce and his conventional folly.
Where's Woodhouse, McCully, Crosbey and Textor
If there's one thing clear - you all have to do better.
I need plans to help Auckland, to slow housing prices
To help feed the kids, and fix other vices.
Where is the plan for trains, trucks and bikes.
My Facebook page tanking, I can't get no likes."
"And I'm sick of seeing Andy, the new man about town
He never gets angry, we can't bring him down".
Bill English stepped forwarded in canonical mood;
"Just stop there John, I don't mean to be rude
You may not have noticed, but we have a crisis
And it's nothing to do with our troops fighting ISIS
Exports are diving, dairy is down
There isn't much happening in any small town
I know I have said the problem's inflation.
But there's something much bigger - John Bank's compensation.
You said don't touch taxes, levies and fees
But how will we pay for this - it don't grow on trees."
And then the talk came to a stop with a shudder
The Prime Minister knew -his heart now aflutter
Up from the back came a great throaty roar
Judith Collins appeared on Parliament's floor.
"I've heard all of your talk, me and Todd Muller
All you're known as now is ponytail puller"
"Out of the way - shove this in your gob
I'm here to take over, it's my turn in your job."

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

sex != gender

Indeed. Although lets not get too obsessed with definitions. Definitions aren't reality, they're tools.

[Pimp-X]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

tools.

Summarized.

[madmaxii]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

There is no self.

(I mean, I think it's more complex than that, but we're making simple, absolute statements, right?)

Fuck Lightspeed, you've excelled yourself on that one! Oh, wait.

[Lightspeed]

My post was intended to match the quality of the post immediately preceding mine. From the response I think I was spot on.

[Ab]

So someone in Labour leaked their election post-mortem review to 3News before Andrew Little had even seen it.

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/where-...ked-2015060315

Apparently it's pretty lolworthy and exactly the sort of document that you would expect an internal Labour review to produce.

http://theprogressreport.co.nz/2015/...ng-the-review/

https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/0...ection-review/

[Lightspeed]

Labour need to sort out their Communications.

[pxpx]

Andrew Little insisting that noone in caucus leaked it. Oh yep.

[Ab]

I refuse to believe that someone within Labour would have leaked this report to Gower.

This leak is either a hacker or Labour has someone within its ranks who has been planted and leaks in the best interests of Labour’s opposition party’s, it seems implausible but at some stage someone has to start asking this question.

http://thestandard.org.nz/nzlp-revie...omment-1024714

[pxpx]

2015: Return of the Rawshark

[CCS]

WhaleOil has often boasted has a person or persons inside Fraser House that leak to him. No reason why it couldn't be the same source.

There must be a lot of dissatisfaction within Labour and therefore probably lots of people who would want to leak this report as well as all sorts of other things.

Oh yeah... Phil Goff has a history of leaking like a sieve.

[pxpx]

Missed this, but Paddy puts the boot, and the rest of his leg, right in.
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/AUDIO-Lab...7/Default.aspx

[pxpx]

Labour truly is the "We disagree" party
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11483966

[CCS]

Labour has just discovered populism.

[blynk]

I'll say. I remember when National were in opposition. It was so much better when they kept on saying that Labours ideas were great.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by CCS

Labour has just discovered populism.

Key told to flag $26m project
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11485305

[CCS]

I agree that the flag referendum is a stupid waste of money. But...

Labour rolled up to last year's general election with a change-the-flag policy which was not a lot different from Key's agenda.

Let's not pretend Little isn't opposing the flag change for no other reason than because he wants to oppose Key. Little would like nothing more than to change the flag and he would rather be the one to deliver it. Populism will get you votes and it's arguably the direction Labour should be heading in, but in opposing the flag for the sake of it, Little has exposed himself as a flip-flopper. I think he may have been better off saying that he wants to change the flag but doesn't want to spend $26m to do it. He could say that he's in favour of changing the flag but that it's not a priority and should only be done with public support rather than forcing the issue. Little looks to me like he's just continuing the failed Labour strategy of "Get John Key".

The thing with Labour criticising the money spent on public consultation - roadshows, postcards etc - is that Labour is constantly criticising National of not listening to the people, of being anti-democratic. Thing is, when you change something like that national flag, you have to consult the public (or at least be seen to do so) and that means you have to spend money. Democracy isn't free. Right now, Labour is accusing National of consulting the public. Wrong move. If Labour wants to oppose, be smart about it. They ought to forget about the postcards and roadshow and focus on the real issue: arse-about-face order of the two referendums.

[pxpx]

Funny, just 9 months ago Little was supporting the whole thing:


http://www.nbr.co.nz/ask-andrew-little

[fixed_truth]

That didn't specify when there should be a change and was before we knew there was such a lack of interest /politicspeak

But seriously going with the popular view is probably worth the risk of looking like a flipflopper. Though he does have to be careful as Key can get away with that kind of thing because he's so popular.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

That didn't specify when there should be a change and was before we knew there was such a lack of interest /politicspeak

Nonetheless, he's now pretending that he's not for a flag change at all. He'd be better off doing what I suggested earlier.

But seriously going with the popular view is probably worth the risk of looking like a flipflopper. Though he does have to be careful as Key can get away with that kind of thing because he's so popular.

Exactly. Key can get away with more than Little can. That's why Little needs to be smarter. He needs to not fly off the handle. He needs to stop opposing for the sake of being contrary. He's not doing any of that at the moment.

[Ab]

According to last week's 3News poll, the Leader of the Opposition is not even the SECOND-most preferred Prime Minister.

Preferred PM

John Key 38.3% (-1.1%)
Andrew Little 10.2% (-1.4%)
Winston Peters 11.3% (+0.1%)

Ouch.

[CCS]

That race baiting really worked a treat.

[Ab]

I wonder whose idea it was? I doubt it was Twyford himself.

[fixed_truth]

I reckon Labour will be mildly pleased with their polling trend, and with National et. al again having less seats (ghost) than the opposition (those not in govt)

[crocos]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

the opposition (those not in govt)

Don't be starting that conversation again! Troll

[ZoSo]

The 2011+ & 2014+ slides shown on the exact same polling is always amusingly overlooked when they go from shitting on the polls 'they're not calling mobile, this is a sham etc etc' closer to the election, back to patting themselves on the back and thinking all is good again, clinging to every new poll early to mid term.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Herald

Labour leader Andrew Little has described the national anthem as a "dirge" and said many New Zealanders preferred to sing along to the Australian anthem than our own.

Mr Little made the comment during debate in Parliament on the Flag Referendums Bill, a bill Labour is opposing despite Mr Little's own desire for a new flag and Labour's 2014 policy to start the process to secure that change.

This is not a poor reflection on New Zealanders, many of whom would like something different. Many of them want a change to the national anthem too, because they are sick of singing a dirge every time you turn up to a festive occasion. Most of them sing along to the Australian national anthem before they sing along to our own."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11488272

[crocos]

"Waltzing Matilda" is not the Aussie national anthem, but does get treated that way.

And he's got one point: Both of our anthems ("God Defend New Zealand" and "God Save the Queen") are somewhat dirge-like the way most people sing them.

[CCS]

Our anthem isn't great, but Little's suggestion that Kiwis enjoy singing the Aussie anthem more than ours is moronic, politically or otherwise.

[Ab]

The NZ anthem is fucking hideous, can't stand that shit. I prefer singing it in Maori and ignoring the English half because then I can pretend I'm not singing about God.

[crocos]

Originally Posted by CCS

Little's suggestion that Kiwis enjoy singing the Aussie anthem more than ours is moronic, politically or otherwise.

Even if it was true, it'd still be moronic as why would you fling indirect accusations of not having pride in your country into the face of your voting public?

[crocos]

Originally Posted by Ab

The NZ anthem is fucking hideous, can't stand that shit. I prefer singing it in Maori and ignoring the English half because then I can pretend I'm not singing about God.

Not like you're a real Kiwi anymore anyway, over half your life in Aussie

Actually I take that back. You're just too easy a target for that jibe

[Ab]

In other news, Labour's recent "Futures of Work" discussion paper turns out to be plagiarism, because Clare Curran of course

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11489928

[CCS]

How is that woman still there?!

[Lightspeed]

National sets a low bar.

[pxpx]

Ooooooo