National Thus Far

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Deadmeat

A senior government minister, with no possible legitimate reason for doing so, literally contacted the police and influenced the investigation of a major party donor.

Is any part of your statement true? He wasn't a senior minister (unless you are referring to his age or tenure in parliament). He had legitimate reason; why else would he call? Ahhh, I see - he did contact the police so you get one point. He didn't influence the police. This wasn't a major donor - National attracts plenty of donations that seem big for people with no money.

What I wonder is why is it that labour can't find something substantive to campaign on? In this election year they have so far been silent on everything apart from very minor dirt digging - is it really true that those attracted to labour care nothing about anything else?

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Ab

By having his name or number show up on a policeman's phone, he was influencing the investigation.

[fixed_truth]

and giving. . .

http://Www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11248681

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

By having his name or number show up on a policeman's phone, he was influencing the investigation.

It goes beyond this specific investigation too. If there isn't a strong response to this (I'm not saying there hasn't been), then the police are left wondering if the next time they arrest a buddy of a cabinet member, can they expect a phone call?

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Deadmeat

A senior government minister, with no possible legitimate reason for doing so, literally contacted the police and influenced the investigation of a major party donor. What part of that is hyperbole?

The first part of it which is hyperbole is the part where you compared Williamson/Liu to donating money to an MP to get off your traffic tickets. Nothing like that has happened in the Liu case. Williamson had no influence on the outcome of the case. Liu got prosecuted anyway. There is no evidence of Liu asking Williamson to get him off the hook in exchange for the money he has donated.

The other part of the hyperbole is the part where you suggested that I'm comfortable with any level of corruption. Which leads us to:

Since you seemed comfortable with that

No, I never said I was comfortable, nor did I hint at that. I'd thank you not to deliberately misstate what my position is on this. Go back and have another read of what I've posted. I've been quite clear that Williamson got what was coming to him; that even for mentioning the donor status was inappropriate enough to lose his job.

i merely postulated a similar scenario

You postulated nothing. You tried to put words in my mouth when I'd already made my thoughts clear. Don't make up lies and then pretend that they're my position, okay?

Do you only have a problem with it when it becomes overt?

I have not suggested that is the case. In fact, I made it quite clear that what Williamson did was wrong even though it was at the low end of the scale. He lost his gigs and that was the correct outcome. I cant quite see how you've read that and imagined that my position is the opposite of what I stated.

Do me a favour before you reply. Read my posts. Read them several times over. Think for a while. And most importantly, stop lying and putting words in my mouth.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Savage

I don't think he realises yet that he is the common denominator in every thread that turns out this way.

You were saying?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Deadmeat

... literally contacted the police

[CCS]

Just to make it clearer (as if I needed to), I agree with this:

Mr Key said Mr Williamson's call to the police - in the middle of an investigation into a domestic violence case - put the police in an unacceptable position.

"As result of that phone call the police undertook a review that would not otherwise have
happened.

That is, in my view, completely wrong."

[Golden Teapot]

I don't agree that this is a useful application of the concept of "influence"; in a political context influence means getting an end outcome that would otherwise not have happened. Having the police check that they were doing the right thing and then carrying on having decided by themselves that they were is nowhere near their having been influenced.

The only difficulty here is that everyone gets a vote and this includes people who can't form a distinction between actions that are appropriate and those that are not and in this instance it's very easy to sway an element of society toward this having been a bad thing when in reality is that it appears it was a good thing; the police validated their position although it's a bit worrying that they felt so insecure about their position that they decided they needed to do that.

[chubby]

^^ ell oh ell.

[Lightspeed]

Even more new, damning evidence on Collins.

Critical analysis anyone?

[pxpx]

Looks pretty bad dunnit? Still, better dead than red, eh adonis?

But seriously, is it actually as bad as that blog puts it?

[Ab]

Collins is looking pretty fucking ragged right now.

[Spoon1]

National panders to big business, especially its buddies - news at 11...

Makes me wish for a system something like in the Red/Green/Blue Mars books but that'll never happen

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Ab

Collins is looking pretty fucking ragged right now.

Yep. Fuck being a politician tbh

[CCS]

National looks out for its rich mates

[IoriDyson]

Because giving people who require loan shark money in the first place another loan is a good idea.

Give a man a fish bla bla bla...

[Ab]

Because giving people who require heroin in the first place methadone is a good idea.

[IoriDyson]

Whats to stop these folk from just adding another debt on top of all the rest. They have no money skills, giving them more debt is not the answer.

I'm really surprised this insane scheme has anything to do with the National party.

[StN]

Almost as insane as giving people monies to move to ChCh and take-our-jerbs when there is no where to live.

[Ab]

Ahhh Christchurch, I remember when you weren't a punchline.

[Ab]

Justice Minister Judith Collins skipped a law and business meeting to visit dairy company Oravida's Shanghai offices, Labour claims.

At Parliament's Question Time, Labour said papers released last week show Collins was due to attend a law roundtable on a taxpayer-funded trip to China last year.

Quick Judith - claim it's your right to do so and say something about white motherfuckers. Works for Hone every time.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by StN

Almost as insane as giving people monies to move to ChCh and take-our-jerbs when there is no where to live.

Just build a shanty town, works for countries the world over!

[StN]

The only possible reasoning that I can speculate is going on in their heads is that as the domestic fixes are tapering off, there must be more housing stock available. Except it isn't, so there isn't.

[BoyWonder]

Yeah this such a fail. My sister is in CHCH trying to buy an affordable house that isn't a wreck and has also been looking to rent as an option and it's the same situation.

She got lucky though and has bought but I don't think "getting lucky" is much to base a policy on.

[[Malks] Pixie]

Originally Posted by Ab

Because giving people who require heroin in the first place methadone is a good idea.

Good to see at least someone can see that easy and unnecessary credit is no different from any other sort of addiction :-P

Pixie

[Ab]

Better that they get government-regulated substitutes in a safe environment than get sucked into relationships with dodgy dealers pushing terrible-quality junk on terrible terms.

[spigalau]

Originally Posted by Ab

Better that they get government-regulated substitutes in a safe environment than get sucked into relationships with dodgy dealers pushing terrible-quality junk on terrible terms.

Are we talking synthetics or bankers here ?

[[Malks] Pixie]

Originally Posted by spigalau

Are we talking synthetics or bankers here ?

I think in this context we're talking about both.

Pixie

[chubby]

Originally Posted by BoyWonder

Yeah this such a fail. My sister is in CHCH trying to buy an affordable house that isn't a wreck and has also been looking to rent as an option and it's the same situation.

She got lucky though and has bought but I don't think "getting lucky" is much to base a policy on.

not sure if owning property in chch could be considered in any way lucky these days.
unless you're one of the bastards charging disaster capitalism rents.

[Ab]

Budget 2014

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budg...o-tax-cuts-yet

The Government has unveiled a family-friendly Budget, returning the books to black and making a pitch to middle New Zealand.

With the general election just months away, Finance Minister Bill English announced a $372m surplus - and slightly loosened his iron grip on the Government's purse strings.

He said he hoped to keep interest rates lower for longer but Budget documents suggest tax cuts are unlikely until 2018-19.

Prime Minister John Key hinted yesterday National might go into the election campaign with some tax relief promises.

Awesome breakdown by Teh herald:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11255346

[fixed_truth]

Armstrong describes it as a politically expedient budget. Well duh, it is an election year.

John Armstrong: Budget 2014 - The Great Brain Robbery

It is as if Bill English has been rifling through Labour's chocolate box of policies, taking the most tasty bits of confectionery and claiming them as his own.

Such is the policy heist, you could be excused thinking large chunks of the Finance Minister's Budget speech had been penned by David Parker, Labour's finance spokesman.

But the Budget presents Labour with a major headache. Where does that party go now in terms of differentiating itself from National? The more Labour opens doors, the more it finds National snapping at its heels.

[Ab]

That's because National is now a centrist if not centre-left party. That's just the reality of NZ politics. This is fucking terrifying for Labour because if given the choice between a successful centrist/leftish government led by the most popular NZ politician of all time and a centrist/leftish gaggle of gays, union hacks, and Lange-era dinosaurs with some policies in common with the first lot, NZ voters will take the first lot thank you very much.

National under John Key has positioned itself in such a way that it can nab Labour policies if they'll work or if they'll be popular, and then they're National policies. All that Labour can do to differentiate itself is to swing further left, and then it's into loony Green territory. The loony Greens already have the loony far left of the spectrum tied up. Nowhere for Labour to find an audience.

[Lightspeed]

I don't think National are as centrist as they make out. I mean, obviously the National Party would be the Green Party equivalent in the US, but the US is batshit crazy.

[spigalau]

Got to love the Heralds Head Lines, in one they proclaim free health care for under 13's and the next 'nothing for beneficiaries' umm ffs, if they have kids, there's definitely something in it for them. doh !

[Lightspeed]

I can't believe JK used the figure of 12% of households paying 76% of all tax to suggest National aren't only interested in the rich.

[fixed_truth]

I'm pleased that media outlets have been balanced in their analysis of the budget.

Imo the Labour-lite policies are good for NZ (ie further ingraining a socially left ideological) but underneath there's the National trademark of no vision and dodging the big underlying problems ie housing, low wages, unemployment, superannuation, dairy dependency, climate change etc.

edit: also treating transport expenditure as a loan to have a surplus on paper was "good accounting" lol

[Lightspeed]

Well, that is the primary talent required of a right leaning political party: convincing voters to vote against their interests (except for the few rich folk managing to get richer.)

[pxpx]

Getting people to vote against their interests is the primary talent required for all political parties.

Anyway, it appears you actually can't please these bloody lefties can you, clearly in lala land.. LS still thinks this budget is all about rich pricks, despite a huge sum of money going towards sick children. Do you hate sick children LS? That's not your MO is it?

Heard some twat on the radio moaning that rich kids don't deserve free healthcare and that it should be targeted. Newsflash guys, means testing costs a lot of money, slows everything down and is generally unfair to those people who are struggling to stay above the threshhold in the first place.

[pxpx]

That being said, I think they could have done a little more around Christchurch and housing too, something to address the supply of housing in tighter markets would have been nice.