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Old 30th August 2019, 19:19     #1
Lightspeed
 
This is what "one person's misinformation is another person's fact" looks like in action:

National crisis centre set up to combat measles
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Old 30th August 2019, 23:55     #2
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Wtaf.
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Old 31st August 2019, 00:16     #3
Lightspeed
 
I read a report in print saying it was advising children to neither enter or leave Auckland to contain the outbreak.

To be fair the article contradicts me:

Quote:
"From what I've seen the biggest reason people aren't vaccinated isn't because they're afraid of vaccination it's because of logistical barriers - because they're juggling multiple jobs, they can't get to their GP, they don't have security because of where they're living and so on.

Dr McElnay told Checkpoint the total number of cases had now risen to 914.
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Old 31st August 2019, 15:51     #4
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
I read a report in print saying it was advising children to neither enter or leave Auckland to contain the outbreak.

To be fair the article contradicts me:
Perhaps it's simply not politic to say "anyone who doesn't vaccinate their kids should be arrested and their kids should be taken into the care of the state"

Note: I AM TOTALLY IN FAVOUR OF NANNY STATE IN THIS INSTANCE
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Old 31st August 2019, 16:52     #5
blynk
 
I guess it if you look to see where the measles outbreak is (South Auckland), then it's more likely to be due to other pressures/reasons that they are not vaccinated rather than some fucked up housewife you believes everything she reads.

But while my wife was vacinated when she was younger, thank fuck she stopped working at Manurewa High this year.
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Old 31st August 2019, 21:42     #6
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Perhaps it's simply not politic to say "anyone who doesn't vaccinate their kids should be arrested and their kids should be taken into the care of the state"

Note: I AM TOTALLY IN FAVOUR OF NANNY STATE IN THIS INSTANCE
The problem is the state is allowed to endlessly put people in circumstances that overwhelm, and then hold those people to account for being overwhelmed.

I understand there are those who believe all humans are infinitely capable and all actions can be reduced to choice. Those people are cunts, just saying.
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Old 2nd September 2019, 11:40     #7
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/healt...cally-ill-kids
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Old 2nd September 2019, 19:38     #8
Whiplash
Bobo Fettish
 
Quote:
From MAMA Maternity, a hub to more than 20 midwives where the Authentic Resistance courses will be run in November, it's about 16 kilometres down the Southwestern motorway to Middlemore's Kidz First hospital.

Anti vaxxers associated with Midwives, huh.


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Old 2nd September 2019, 21:46     #9
Lightspeed
 
Whiplash breaking his silence with a petty dig at midwives, cause he met one he didn't like once.

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Old 2nd September 2019, 22:20     #10
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
This isn't a bad high-level summary:

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/201...s-immunisation
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Old 2nd September 2019, 22:26     #11
Lightspeed
 
Just to be clear, how certain are we of the justification for those unvaccinated?

I'll admit, I wanted to get on the anti-vaxxer bandwagon. But are we sure it isn't the desperate people bandwagon we need to be on?

Could it be there's a third factor that results in both anti-vaxxers and desperate people? Like 10 years of the National government for instance?

Or is it preferable to have a reason that we can pin on individuals for not being smart like us, rather than circumstances that are desperate?

Edit: I'll read your link, see if I can summarise.
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Old 2nd September 2019, 22:39     #12
Lightspeed
 
So it seems like there's an existing vulnerability amongst poor people, so as they find things more difficult, they immunise less.

However in these circumstances, there is a factor additional to this existing vulnerability, as we can see that changes in immunisation rates that don't correlate with poverty.

I'm struggling to make meaning of the results in the graph titled: "Immunisation rates have fallen across age groups since 2016". Especially the difference between 12, 18, and 24 month immunisations. Or why are immunisation rates for 5 year olds improving so dramatically these last years?
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Old 2nd September 2019, 23:48     #13
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Who knows? Some incoming government abolished all health targets and tracking against them.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 00:32     #14
Lightspeed
 
Do I need to find a reputable source myself? I don't care for what the NZH's owners deem we should be told.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 08:59     #15
pxpx
 
^ lol
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Old 3rd September 2019, 11:41     #16
fixed_truth
 
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/healt...no-pay-concept

Nevermind this no jab no pay, just make it compulsory.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 12:40     #17
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
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Old 3rd September 2019, 12:49     #18
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
^ lol
What does your misinformation^H^H^H do your facts tell you?
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Old 3rd September 2019, 12:52     #19
pxpx
 
You're the one making sweeping assumptions without backing up a single thing, m8.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 13:12     #20
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
What does your misinformation^H^H^H do your facts tell you?
Pro tip: google for health+targets site:.nz in 2018
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Old 3rd September 2019, 13:34     #21
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
You're the one making sweeping assumptions without backing up a single thing, m8.
Really? Really? You need me to back up my claim that the NZH is, as far as journalism and a source of information is concerned, trash? That's something you've not come across and now suddenly need me to demonstrate to you?

What the fuck? What are you trying to deflect from? Or you think I'm trying to protect Labour? Because I'm an avid Labour supporter, I've never got a word of criticism for the party?

I know, I know, you've had your say, now tumbleweeds until the next time you want to make a dig then run away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Pro tip: google for health+targets site:.nz in 2018
Yeah? Why don't you do that before posting trash? It's worse than trash, it's burning trash that's poisoning us.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 3rd September 2019 at 13:36.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 14:03     #22
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
what the
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Old 3rd September 2019, 15:03     #23
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Could it be there's a third factor that results in both anti-vaxxers and desperate people? Like 10 years of the National government for instance?
Citation needed
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Old 3rd September 2019, 19:14     #24
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
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Old 5th September 2019, 17:02     #25
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
Citation needed
Do you mean in addition to what I've posted previously? What are you after?
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Old 5th September 2019, 22:21     #26
pxpx
 
maybe

a little

effort

?
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Old 6th September 2019, 01:09     #27
Lightspeed
 
The effort I am making here is to point out the NZH is trash and its motivation for the perspective it presents is NOT quality journalism.

As you point out, there are plenty of BETTER sources available. Why spread trash?
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Old 6th September 2019, 02:44     #28
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...ageous-bridges
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Old 6th September 2019, 14:43     #29
Lightspeed
 
Not hard, right?

I just don't get it. On hand we're all bashing on consumers of misinformation, yet here we are sharing one of the worst sources of misinformation.

Worst in the sense it's essentially ostensibly a trusted news source.

And now I get to point out Bridges' hypocrisy.
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Old 6th September 2019, 15:03     #30
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
The targets were put in place by the former National-led government in 2009.

They focussed on six areas: increased immunisation...
So how did immunisation rates go during National's time on the Treasury benches?



data: MoH

Labour dropping that KPI upon taking office in 2018 seems to have worked well for the country.
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Old 6th September 2019, 16:32     #31
Lightspeed
 
Glad we have no expert analysis on the data. Thinking their facts are better than anything I can cook up after my second wine in the evening.
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Old 6th September 2019, 19:44     #32
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
one of the worst sources of misinformation.

Worst in the sense it's essentially ostensibly a trusted news source.
Once again, citation needed.
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Old 6th September 2019, 20:46     #33
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
A mother was turned away eight times trying to get a vaccination for her child with a shortage of measles vaccines.

The Bay of Plenty has a measles vaccination shortage after a distribution pause by the Ministry of Health on Tuesday.

Western Bay of Plenty Primary Health Organisation's manager of general practice services Phil Back said the halt was due to the ministry's attempt to get a snapshot of the supply situation

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12265445
Lucky for the Ministry of Health this won’t affect how they’re tracking against the targets they don’t have any more
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Old 6th September 2019, 21:46     #34
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Lucky for the Ministry of Health this won’t affect how they’re tracking against the targets they don’t have any more
Quote:
The Government has directed the Ministry of Health to develop a new set of performance measures to improve health outcomes for New Zealanders.

The new focus will be on population health outcomes and will ensure that health resources are used optimally. The objective is to give confidence the best decisions are being made to improve the health of New Zealanders.

...

While work is underway to develop these new measures DHBs will continue to report to the Ministry against the current set of health targets, as well as against a previously established suite of wider measures.
https://www.health.govt.nz/new-zeala...health-targets
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Old 6th September 2019, 21:56     #35
Lightspeed
 
Talking

What can I say except, oh lol.

I wonder what we'll hear from Ab and pxpx.
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Old 6th September 2019, 22:15     #36
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Yes, I remember when that bit of marketing was announced after the outcry about the dropping of targets altogether. Two years ago.

No "new measures" since then. Two years. Nothing.


Quote:
While work is underway to develop these new measures DHBs will continue to report to the Ministry against the current set of health targets, as well as against a previously established suite of wider measures.

During this time we will only provide the raw data. We will not develop separate reports or infographics or advertise this information in newspapers.
Summary: since Labour scrapped health targets, the DHBs have to report against the old National Govt targets, but -- get this -- the Ministry doesn't measure the DHBs' performance against those targets. The DHBs just have to report their numbers. The Minister of Health doesn't read them, and the DHBs don't face any sanctions if their numbers don't come anywhere near the old National Govt targets.

I like that bit about "we won't break down our numbers into reports that the public can read and we won't publish those reports that we're not making anywhere". #mosttransparentgovermentever

Reality: Labour has abolished health targets, and the country is worse-off because of it.
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Old 6th September 2019, 22:32     #37
Lightspeed
 
Ooh, it's marketing. Gotcha mate.

Who got you so horny for National's health target? What glorious outcomes did National produce that makes you think what they had in mind must have surely been for the best of New Zealand?
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Old 6th September 2019, 23:25     #38
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Yes, I remember when that bit of marketing was announced after the outcry about the dropping of targets altogether. Two years ago.
I thought that they ditched the old ones last year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
What glorious outcomes did National produce that makes you think what they had in mind must have surely been for the best of New Zealand?
That's the thing, Nationals ideological under-funding of DHBs and other health services was extremely damaging and this won't reversed in a hurry. They're in opposition & now everything Labour does isn't enough, even though it's more than their tinkering around the edges for 9 years!
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Old 6th September 2019, 23:53     #39
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Aha fuck you all I’m drinking now #greenvoter
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