nCoV 2019

[fixed_truth]

I thought with education levels improving that the boomer mentality (being uneducated combined with the Dunning-Kruger effect) would fade away.

Sadly covid has shown that the cycle isn't broken

Five candidates with links to anti-vaccination group standing for city council

[_indigo1]

There's not even any point discussing this with him. He's fixated. He's got some kind of complex that provides him with some kind of satisfaction in being the guy that was 'right all along', and he will continue to search for evidence to match his position, likely forever.

Classic red-piller.

[DrTiTus]

Don't hate me, hate the data.

[fixed_truth]

We love you. Your wonky data and your lack of awareness around how wrong you are sux.

[DrTiTus]

It's not my wonky data, it's from the MoH.

If the MoH put out information saying 80% of cases were in the unvaccinated, and 80% of deaths were unvaccinated people, you'd be telling me it was from an official source and I would be conceding that it works.

Ab resorted to "alternative medicine/natural healing" in the form of "magic beans" (coffee) to cope with his terrible feelings when he got sick after being vaccinated. It's not Ab's fault the vaccine didn't work, and I don't think he made a bad decision given the complete lack of information we all had at the beginning of the pandemic. StN took it to be a good citizen and was told it would help. I'm not criticizing his choice.

I'm not blaming or shaming anyone, I'm just pointing out the facts of how well it performed in the real world. The fact you're getting defensive about the information in front of you is the entertaining part for me. It's not a personal criticism that the vaccine doesn't work. You didn't make it. You aren't responsible. Separate the vaccine from yourself. Just because the vaccine sucks, it doesn't imply you suck for taking it. We all got told it would work. Honestly, I just didn't want to be the first to take it, and just wanted to see how well it worked. Now I see, and I'm not rushing off to get it. Would you recommend I get vaccinated now with the same vaccine that didn't work for everyone else?

[Lightspeed]

You cry about being persecuted for being a Nazi.

I recently heard a quote about a certain Nazi that fits here:

"Amateurishness was one of Hitler's dominant traits. He had never learned a profession and basically had always remained an outsider in all fields of endeavour. Like many self-taught people, he had no idea what real specialised knowledge really meant. Without any sense of the complexities of any great task he boldly assumed one task after another."

[Cyberbob]

We're reading the same data, but have wildly different opinions about how to interpret that data.

95% of all car accidents occur within 1 mile of your home.
I feel like DrTiTus would come the conclusion that the safest thing to do is park 1 mile from your home and walk the rest of the way.

[The Edge]

Who actually said, "taking the vaccine means you will not get sick from coronavirus in any way, shape or form"? Yes, if you have the vaccine you may still get sick if you catch coronavirus - but your long term health prognosis is much better if you're vaccinated.

That was a serious question, by the way; I'm curious where you saw this information along the lines of "get the vaccine and have absolutely no symptoms whatsoever". I don't remember seeing that anywhere, can you please share where you saw this?

[_indigo1]

I'm not even sure why he keeps posting this stuff. What is he expecting to achieve? To change peoples minds?
Because it sure doesn't get *me* defensive. It doesn't get me anything except maybe bewildered at the mindset if anything.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

We're reading the same data, but have wildly different opinions about how to interpret that data.

Hey bro, remember this... you said it, not me:

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

8% of the population, 29% of all new cases, 64% of all new hospitalisations.

If they didn't work, you'd expect the cases and hospitalisations to be far more representitive, i.e. 72% vaccinated would be 72% of the cases.

81% vaccinated, 83% of the cases. Did you do a stats course in the meantime and update your way of interpreting data?


Another wrong guy:

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Me me me me. When things get hairy in the next few months it's unvaccinated people that will be hogging healthcare resources. Down the road further it'll be unvaccinated people moaning because respiratory services are stretched thin. The less transmission the less these things will be a problem. If there was only a simple way to reduce transmission? Oh that's right let's not do that on principle because how dare the Govt. tell us what to do!

Don't try and tell me you never expected the vaccine to work and argued on the assumption they did.

I might be a dickhead, but at least I'm consistent.

Originally Posted by Ab

Second, the key stat is not "most people who catch it don't die", it's that of the people who do die, something like 98% are unvaccinated. 97% of the people who require hospitalisation, DDOSing the health system, are unvaccinated.

There was so much faith.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by The Edge

That was a serious question, by the way; I'm curious where you saw this information along the lines of "get the vaccine and have absolutely no symptoms whatsoever". I don't remember seeing that anywhere, can you please share where you saw this?

What was the thinking behind having vaccine passports? Did people feel safe from being infected when going to places using vaccine passports? [because other people would not be infected] Were there accusations of "plague rats" and rhetoric of "I don't want to be around unvaccinated people"? [because only unvaccinated can get infected and spread the virus]

Why, when there was a protest to get rid of mandates, were you all overwhelming in support of vaccine mandates? Did you think the vaccine protected people? Who was it protecting? The people around vaccinated people [because the vaccinated couldn't spread COVID], or the vaccinated themselves [because they couldn't get infected or get sick or die]?

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by _indigo1

I'm not even sure why he keeps posting this stuff. What is he expecting to achieve?

Because over the last 2 years, culminating at Parliament, society broke down. We can't just ignore what happened and pretend it didn't. We argued and became divided over something which in hindsight did fuck all, and we literally removed people's rights in the process.

If we don't actually stop and reflect, it won't get any better. And who knows, maybe next time you won't be in the majority. Maybe it'll be your rights removed. Your job lost. You getting beaten by Police because you dared to say no to something.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by The Edge

Who actually said, "taking the vaccine means you will not get sick from coronavirus in any way, shape or form"?

And you can add the Pfizer CEO to the list, as well as Joe Biden saying "You won't get COVID".

And if the Pfizer CEO is telling governments how well it works, it's gotta be pretty good, huh? Worth forcing on all your citizens.

[The Edge]

Again, I don't get my medical information off social media. I listen to people who know what they're talking about, not online self-proclaimed so-called "experts" who think they know everything - I'm looking at the likes of Brian Tamaki (grifter who preys on people who can least afford it - and now wants to hold a pathetic attention-seeking "people's court" in front of Parliament to "put the Government on trial" for...something; says he speaks for "the majority" when he quite obviously doesn't), as well as Voices for Freedom (run their "business model" on scaremongering and vaccine hesitation, saying "vaccines are bad", yet none of the lot running it have any medical training whatsoever). The actions of those running the protest at Parliament was appalling and actually made me embarrassed to be a New Zealander. I've never seen such a group of misinformed people in one group like that in my life.

Ashley Bloomfield is a doctor who knows what he's talking about. I'll take his advice over some online "doctor" who also happens to be an ignorant, smug self-righteous loudmouth (that's directed at the likes of VFF, not you personally).

Bizarrely, a number of these self-proclaimed "experts" who last year knew all about vaccines and pandemics have pivtoed, and this year, they (somehow) know everything about the situation in Ukraine, from top to bottom.

Yet why aren't these "experts" hiring themselves out on the consulting circuit making a fortune, instead of sitting at home on their computers, asking for constant donations, or hawking crap that they claim will cure all your health woes (see: Alex Jones) - basically why aren't these people out there making a fortune?
Because, well, they don't know everything. But if you ask them, oh they're the total expert, don't listen to the doctors, they don't know jack, I know everything, it's all a conspiracy, someone who's a friend of a friend of af friend who claims to work for the CDC said so on Facebook and hey while we're at it, please donate to my Trump "election fraud" fund, and on it goes...

You aren't changing my mind Dr Titus in any way at all, and I can see no one here is ever going to change yours that the vaccine isn't "a waste of time", so this is just going to be a non-stop impasse/stalemate, isn't it? You've clearly made your mind up, good for you. I've made mine up, and twisting figures to suit your agenda (as has been pointed out here previously) is absolutely not going to make me think differently about getting the vaccine.

Yes I've had the vaccine, but I'll continue listening to people who know what they're talking about, and getting everyone I know (and care about) to get vaccinated. According to Simon's "we're all mates here" and accordingly I'd like to convince you the vaccine will actually help your long-term health chances should you happen to catch coronavirus one day, but I don't think I'm going to make any progress, so probably best I just walk away from this thread and leave you to plunge further into the antivaxx rabbit hole. I wish you luck, and I sincerely hope you don't catch the disease, because it's not fun having it.

[Ab]

[DrTiTus]

April Fools!

[blynk]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

Hey bro, remember this... you said it, not me:
81% vaccinated, 83% of the cases. Did you do a stats course in the meantime and update your way of interpreting data?

Numbers still skewed. You like the high level numbers. Look further into those numbers to learn the truth.

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

Another wrong guy:

Same again. Look deeper into the information. Maybe we got lucky because had kept Covid out for so longer we were able to have a larger % vaxed before we got hit and that saved us.
But look deeper and you will start to see the trends of unvax having a bigger toll.

[StN]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

What was the thinking behind having vaccine passports? Did people feel safe from being infected when going to places using vaccine passports? [because other people would not be infected] Were there accusations of "plague rats" and rhetoric of "I don't want to be around unvaccinated people"? [because only unvaccinated can get infected and spread the virus]

Why, when there was a protest to get rid of mandates, were you all overwhelming in support of vaccine mandates? Did you think the vaccine protected people? Who was it protecting? The people around vaccinated people [because the vaccinated couldn't spread COVID], or the vaccinated themselves [because they couldn't get infected or get sick or die]?

I had a Hercules graphics card once, then I got a VGA, and things became 128 times better. 256 shades of grey old chap, not just black and white.

Risk mitigation is a sliding scale, not an absolute. VaccPasses meant you could mingle with like minded others who had reduced transmissability, and would probably adhere to social distancing and hygeine practices. That's the sense of security Vaccine Passes gave. And yes, people still got sick, but significantly less than could have, reducing the overall impact economically.

My wife said she felt selfconcious attending an open air motorsport event in the weekend wearing a mask - but was at the same time thinking she was safer than not wearing one. I suggested that the people who saw her could not assess her vulnerability state - was she recovering from cancer treatment and wanted to enjoy a normal freedom with friends, or was she just cautious? I was not aware of any fucks being given. Life went on.

[Lightspeed]

In a world of forces that overwhelm the individual I get the urge to at least pretend to be fighting against them.

Of course, these forces only exploit such vulnerability.

[bradman]

Hope you're feeling better Ab. Man I don't look at NZG often, but it's nice to see it still goin' =] I see titus is still nuthouse, one day maybe. I got covid recently and was over it in 3 days, with the first day being on top of a wicked hangover - vax boosted. 52 so apparently not a spring chicken. I'll still be masking up and am annoyed I can't get my 2nd boost for 3 months now.

[DrTiTus]

Is this a prank? Is there a camera hidden somewhere? Am I part of some experiment?

Jesus christ.

[bradman]

Is this a prank? Is there a camera hidden somewhere? Am I part of some experiment?

I like it! Could be performative art!

Nice Titis!

[Lightspeed]

Regrettably most of us are a bit mad.

Glad you got through it!

[bradman]

Thanks LS, I was worried to tell the truth.

I hardly ever get sick, but understand covid is super serious. Even vax'd and boosted I was worried and masked up etc.

Partner is a teacher and I figgered I'd get it from her at some stage, and I did, though 2-3 days after she was full on (we masked etc when she tested).

Just glad I pulled through lightly, prob thanks to the vax and boost.

[_indigo1]

In b4 Titus

Fit and healthy Kiwis dying unexpectedly from mysterious adult condition

[MadMax]

+1 re above for being the one in a crowd wearing a face mask. People just don’t care about your choice I’ve found. There are no double takes, there’s no staring.

[DrTiTus]

+1 also

You can wear it in your car alone for all I care. You do you. That's been the argument all along. It's not so hard, is it?

[blynk]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

+1 also

You can wear it in your car alone for all I care. You do you. That's been the argument all along. It's not so hard, is it?

Over the minimum that is being asked of you, yes that is perfectly fine and no judgement, if you are not doing the minimum that is being asked (unless you legit have reasons), then no you can be judged.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

+1 also

You can wear it in your car alone for all I care. You do you. That's been the argument all along. It's not so hard, is it?

Funnily enough I’ve done this when shop hopping so I’m not taking the mask off and on.

[Ab]

I m happy to wear a mask because fuck facial recognition cameras.

[_indigo1]

They keep your face nice and warm in winter too.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Ab

I m happy to wear a mask because fuck facial recognition cameras.

Nothing a moko wouldn’t fix.

[Ab]

Yeah you’re right, a permanent unique facial tattoo is ultimate anonymity

[fixed_truth]

Only solution is for everyone to get the same ta Moko, sponsored by Whittakers. Something something chocolate face

[_indigo1]

Mokakke

[Ab]

Originally Posted by _indigo1

They keep your face nice and warm in winter too.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Ab

Yeah you’re right, a permanent unique facial tattoo is ultimate anonymity

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/apple-...SGUP7GE5RH6K4/

[crocos]

Originally Posted by _indigo1

They keep your face nice and warm in winter too.

Yep, have found myself wearing one for exactly this reason while outside.

[_indigo1]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...roved-in-china

Let's see how fast antivaxxers about-face on wearing masks in public now!

[Ab]

Hey remember the hookers who used fake IDs to get into Northland for the Mongrel Mob, taking the govt by surprise and necessitating a lockdown of the entire region?

Turns out none of that shit was true

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politi...RYBTHFO2VY7JQ/

#aroha