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Old 7th June 2017, 12:38     #81
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar
Déjà vu
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Old 7th June 2017, 15:21     #82
The Edge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Then how did she end up in Parliament?
Didn't she replace Bolger in a "bloodless coup"? From memory she lost the only election she ever contested (1999).
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Old 7th June 2017, 15:50     #83
blynk
 
I wasn't sure if Ab was being serious or now.

She one her seat several times so got into parliament.
But yes, just like Bill English now, she did not become Prime Minister by winning an Election.
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Old 7th June 2017, 16:03     #84
Lightspeed
 
She didn't win an election where she became prime minister upon winning, just like Bill English hasn't. I had hoped the context implied this.
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Old 7th June 2017, 16:15     #85
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Key Derangement Syndrome lives on



The whole time that Key was PM, Labour's strategy was "Get Key". It never worked. He kept winning elections and he left on his own terms, and still as a winner. "Get Key" as a strategy never worked.

Incredibly, now that Key is out of the picture, Labour is still mindlessly pursuing the "Get Key" strategy. What's the point? Does Labour really think that will get them votes? Or do they genuinely believe that looking bitter is the image they need to promote for the party?

It's funny in a way, but really it's kinda sad that people can't get over things.
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:08     #86
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
The whole time that Key was PM, Labour's strategy was "Get Key". It never worked. He kept winning elections and he left on his own terms, and still as a winner. "Get Key" as a strategy never worked.
That's true, and it was frustrating because while it pleased the activist wing, it alienated the swing voters they needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Incredibly, now that Key is out of the picture, Labour is still mindlessly pursuing the "Get Key" strategy. What's the point? Does Labour really think that will get them votes? Or do they genuinely believe that looking bitter is the image they need to promote for the party?

It's funny in a way, but really it's kinda sad that people can't get over things.
In this context imo it won't hurt them. I think most swing voters (& this is anecdotal) aren't sure about Key getting a knighthood 3 months after leaving parliament. They're not like this is a travesty, but they acknowledge it's not a good look.
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:30     #87
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Really? You speak for swing voters?
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:40     #88
BoyWonder
 
I'm guessing the vast majority don't even care.
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:40     #89
fixed_truth
 
I'm not speaking for anyone. As I qualified with anecdotal & imo.
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:49     #90
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Well I think you're wrong. Whoever this anecdote of yours comes from, is probably someone who is inclined to swing toward the left anyway.

I think most NZers (people who don't closely follow politics and could name less than 5 politicians) probably don't give a fuck about Key getting a knighthood because they see it as a standard offering to former PMs. The guy was PM for 8 years. Whether you like his politics or not, he's given a lot of time and effort to his country and I think most fair-minded individuals who aren't hard-left or right think it's not unreasonable for Key to have been recognised.

If you think the continued attacks on a former PM as a party strategy won't hurt Labour, then it can only be because they already look so vindictive and embittered that they can't go any lower in the eyes of the public.
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:51     #91
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
It's funny in a way, but really it's kinda sad that people can't get over things.
Yeah, what's up with people? If you're in grinding poverty, get over it. Can't buy kids the things they need? Get over it. Raped? Get over it. Struggling with addiction? Get over it. Enraged about all of this? Get over it.

So sad that these people can't get over things. Their circumstance? Meh, not so sad I guess. AMIRITE CCS?
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:52     #92
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Speaking of embittered...
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:55     #93
Lightspeed
 
I might be embittered, you're just miserable. At least I can see change. What do you see?
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Old 7th June 2017, 17:59     #94
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Miserable? Is that one of your magical professional diagnoses that you perform over the internet? Or is that just more standard lolspeed horseshit?
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Old 7th June 2017, 18:07     #95
Lightspeed
 
A miserable cunt. That's what you are. That's why you don't give a fuck about the misery in the world. You're miserable either way.
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Old 7th June 2017, 18:15     #96
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, since you don't really know me like you think you do. So I'm going with "usual lolspeed horseshit".

Besides, your impotent rage is all the encouragement I need to continue voting National.
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Old 7th June 2017, 18:45     #97
fixed_truth
 
You're entitled to your anecdotal opinions too, bro. (about 'most NZers' and 'fair-minded individuals' and what's reasonable or not)
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Old 7th June 2017, 19:11     #98
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
You're entitled to your anecdotal opinions too, bro. (about 'most NZers' and 'fair-minded individuals' and what's reasonable or not)
No, I'm not trying to pass my opinion off as an anecdote. It's just an opinion. I'm not really sure what an 'anecdotal opinion' is. Do you know?
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Old 7th June 2017, 19:50     #99
fixed_truth
 
A viewpoint based on anecdotal evidence. I think we're all just making casual observations about how JK being knighted is generally perceived by swing voters.
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Old 7th June 2017, 19:55     #100
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
An opinion based on an anecdote? Ok, useful.
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Old 7th June 2017, 22:37     #101
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Maybe, but 1000 opinions based on anecdotes is a Colmar-Brunton poll.
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Old 7th June 2017, 23:53     #102
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
What Colmar Brunton poll is that? Did they specifically seek out respondents who answered based on an anecdote? Or do you also not know what an anecdote is?
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Old 8th June 2017, 00:50     #103
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
*woosh*

You're like, literally.
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Old 8th June 2017, 01:26     #104
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
That's rich coming from another person who doesn't seem to understand what an anecdote is.
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Old 8th June 2017, 08:06     #105
fixed_truth
 
Ah, obfuscation.

Quote:
Noun

anecdote (plural anecdotes)

1. A short account of a real incident or person, often humorous or interesting.
2. An account which supports an argument, but which is not supported by scientific or statistical analysis.
3. A previously untold secret account of an incident.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:45     #106
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
I think most NZers (people who don't closely follow politics and could name less than 5 politicians) probably don't give a fuck about Key getting a knighthood because they see it as a standard offering to former PMs. The guy was PM for 8 years. Whether you like his politics or not, he's given a lot of time and effort to his country and I think most fair-minded individuals who aren't hard-left or right think it's not unreasonable for Key to have been recognised.
.
These people that can only name 5 politicians probably dont realise that other PMs have knighthoods, especially seen as the PM before Key doesn't have one.

On the basis that he was PM for 8 years (and not just a 1 termer) and that there is currently a precedent set for PMs getting it, then that is fine for him to get it.
Should they get it. No
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:47     #107
blynk
 
Also it is election year, so attacking the work of the previous PM's government is definitely a valid tactic. As long as its not the only tactic from Labour.
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Old 8th June 2017, 13:19     #108
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
She didn't win an election where she became prime minister upon winning, just like Bill English hasn't. I had hoped the context implied this.
I just don't get what point you're trying to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Only Jenny Shipley and Geoffrey Palmer are missing from the (ONZ) list of living ex-PMs. Palmer is knighted, Shipley never won an election.
Mike Moore never won an election, became PM because of an internal caucus vote, ONZ.

Geoffrey Palmer never won an election, became PM because Lange resigned, knighted.

Jenny Shipley never won an election, became PM because of an internal caucus vote, knighted.

Bill Rowling never won an election, became PM because Kirk died, knighted.
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Old 8th June 2017, 13:29     #109
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
lol fake news
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Old 8th June 2017, 14:53     #110
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
Also it is election year, so attacking the work of the previous PM's government is definitely a valid tactic. As long as its not the only tactic from Labour.
Uhmmm... sure, it's valid if you think that pursuing a strategy of looking angry and bitter is helpful.

Personally, I don't think it is. It appeals only to the "Fuck John Key!" crowd who were already going to give their vote to the left wing anyway (though not necessarily to Labour).

Labour needs to appeal to swing voters. People who may vote right or may vote left and have gone both ways in the past. Labour, with its cute graphic, is basically saying "You're a stupid and nasty cunt for voting National. Hey, come over to our side!" I don't think swing voters like being insulted.
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Old 8th June 2017, 15:26     #111
ZoSo
 
Back to plan A since Jacinda (B) didn't kick in.
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Old 8th June 2017, 15:44     #112
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Ah, obfuscation.
And what, may I ask, is being obfuscated?
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Old 8th June 2017, 21:15     #113
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, since you don't really know me like you think you do.
I know you largely via this forum, in this forum I know you as a miserable cunt.

I'm not really concerned how miserable cunts vote, I'm not surprised when they vote to keep everyone else miserable.
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Old 8th June 2017, 21:18     #114
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
I just don't get what point you're trying to make.
Awards for PMs abound. I hadn't noticed Shipley was knighted, in which case I would have pointed out that the two people missing from the list you mentioned were already knighted. There's no ex-PM holding both ONZ and a knighthood is there?
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Old 8th June 2017, 22:13     #115
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
I know you largely via this forum, in this forum I know you as a miserable cunt.

I'm not really concerned how miserable cunts vote, I'm not surprised when they vote to keep everyone else miserable.
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Old 8th June 2017, 22:34     #116
Lightspeed
 
Thumbs up

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Old 9th June 2017, 10:03     #117
Juju
get to da choppa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Awards for PMs abound. I hadn't noticed Shipley was knighted, in which case I would have pointed out that the two people missing from the list you mentioned were already knighted. There's no ex-PM holding both ONZ and a knighthood is there?
That's because ONZ outranks Knighthood?

That's like saying there's no one that is both a Constable and a Sargent.

Edit: I've re-read your conversation with Ab, and I've concluded that I have no idea what point you're trying to make...

Last edited by Juju : 9th June 2017 at 10:07.
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:56     #118
Lightspeed
 
I'm not sure what point anyone is trying to make here. All we've really ascertained is ex-PMs get awards.
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Old 9th June 2017, 14:43     #119
blynk
 
A quick browse seems to suggest you can have both
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_New_Zealand

There appears to be 5 dames & 7 knights.
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Old 9th June 2017, 15:33     #120
crocos
 
EDIT: <ignore this post, chur>
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