EoY Tour squad

[Rince]

The All Blacks squad (with province and Test caps in brackets) is:


Forwards:

John Afoa Auckland (25)
Anthony Boric North Harbour (16)
Daniel Braid Auckland (4)
Tom Donnelly Otago (13)
Hikawera Elliot Hawke’s Bay (0)
Ben Franks Tasman (7)
Owen Franks Canterbury (17)
Andrew Hore Taranaki (47)
Jerome Kaino Auckland (33)
Richie McCaw (capt) Canterbury (89)
Keven Mealamu Auckland (80)
Liam Messam Waikato (5)
Kieran Read Canterbury (25)
Brad Thorn Canterbury (46)
Samuel Whitelock Canterbury (8)
Tony Woodcock North Harbour (69)




Backs:

Andy Ellis Canterbury (14)
Daniel Carter Canterbury (74)
Jimmy Cowan Southland (41)
Stephen Donald Waikato (19)
Hosea Gear Wellington (2)
Cory Jane Wellington (20)
Alby Mathewson Wellington (1)
Mils Muliaina Waikato (89)
Ma’a Nonu Wellington (52)
Josevata Rokocoko Auckland (66)
Sitiveni Sivivatu Waikato (43)
Conrad Smith Wellington (41)
Isaia Toeava Auckland (26)
Sonny Bill Williams Canterbury *

* new All Black

from allblacks.com

[badassmofo]

not as many new caps as I'd expect, but good to see Elliot back. Still think Messam is lucky to be there, as is Braid.

[Warrick]

sonny bill 4 lyf3. feeling pretty stink about weepu.

[Deff]

Originally Posted by Warrick

sonny bill 4 lyf3. feeling pretty stink about weepu.

Yeh man, not a huge Weepu fan but he worked hard and deserved a spot.

But he looked happy enough in bed

[mr selfdestruct]

Couldn't be happier. Toeava and Donald were the two on my wish list. Fuckin stoked!

[JERI]

Hosea Gear

Yes!

[CCS]

Pardon my n00bness, but am I right in guessing that SBW will on the bench?

I expected he would make it into the ABs at some point but thought he might have to play some Super 15 first.

[wugambino]

great donald and Ellis :\

Good to see gear in the team finally .. yep SBW will be on the bench

[mr selfdestruct]

CCS: They are pretty keen to have him at the World Cup, if they didn't take him on this tour they wouldn't get him into the All Black training environment until June next year which would be too close to the WC to do him any good really.

Gear has definitely earned his place, I'm no longer a hater, I can see he actually has skill and is no longer JUST a finisher.

Any injuries to any of the wings/centres, Ranger should be first called in but Henry said Fruean was 'one selection away' from making it so sounds like he would get the call up, doesn't seem fair to me, Ranger is better.

Bad luck Ranger and Vito.

[xor]

Donald...Fuck. The guy can't handle the international chandle imo.

[herp]

Originally Posted by xor

Donald...Fuck. The guy can't handle the international chandle imo.

QFT

[CCS]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

CCS: They are pretty keen to have him at the World Cup, if they didn't take him on this tour they wouldn't get him into the All Black training environment until June next year which would be too close to the WC to do him any good really.

Makes sense.

Speaking of the RWC, do we have any understudies for Carter that we feel good about?

[Rince]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

Bad luck Ranger and Vito.

good points :/


Ranger and Vito must be gutted

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by CCS

Makes sense.

Speaking of the RWC, do we have any understudies for Carter that we feel good about?

Nope. We never will. Josh Kronfeld never had an understudy that came close, it just so happened he announced his retirement and this guy Richie McCaw turned up and we were like, "Well he has talent... he's not Josh but he'll do..." and the rest is history.

We will keep trying for a replacement for Carter and we won't be happy and eventually he'll leave NZ and we'll just have to be content with who we've got.

The good thing though is that Donald can't chicken out now. If he's having a poor game they're gonna have to stick it out with him if Carter isn't playing (won't be fit for Hong Kong). So we'll see if he digs himself a hole and can dig himself out. The true test.

xor/herp: Donald's played 19 tests and he's in the form of his life. It's the safest choice really. Obviously most people would rather see Slade there because they think he was wonderful when he came on with Cruden struggling in the last All Blacks match. Still, I'd rather trust the guy that's played 19 tests and is in the form of his life.

[mr selfdestruct]

And boo fuckin hoo about Cruden in the papers, I can't believe people are so surprised??? He's not being 'dumped'. He's a kid, he's lucky he got a shot so early as it is. He's not the first All Black to play a couple games and disappear for a while. He has to come back with the bits in his game better. And I'm sure he will but this is serious stuff, we need to win Test matches and he's not ready.

[crocos]

Yep, kid has potential, but not at AB level yet.

*cough*SBW*cough*

[Phrack]

I usually roll my eyes at Stuff's opinion columns, but this one is pretty spot on..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/o...quite-up-to-it

Cruden can't kick, pretty big issue since now Weepu is injured we wouldn't have anyone on the field that can kick. I think it would have been better to go with 2 halfbacks and take Slade. Mainly because I dislike Ellis.

Donald is in great form. He has been out of the team a while, lets see if his mental toughness has come along to match his playing ability. This isn't to test whether he is as good as DC, it's to see whether he can play well, and the team can win with him at 10.

SBW already knows what the international scene is about. Has been under the spotlight and under scrutiny since is rugby career started. He can handle pressure, Fruean doesn't have that sort of background.

[mr selfdestruct]

Good thoughts Phrack

Also, about Ellis, I've never liked him either but if you look at the rest of the selections then Ellis' was about experience too. Alby? Fuck all experience but he has some real X factor. Ellis has played some huge matches in his life, NPC/Super 14 finals. He's pulled off some great tries AND let's not forget some great drop goals, some match winning, under tremendous pressure. As a half back I don't like the way he plays but you can understand why he's in the side when you want hardened experienced athletes who can think on their feet and are strong leaders. He has 14 All Black Caps and has been in and out of the All Black environment and understands it.

[_Incubus_]

I cant understand why they keep picking Stephen Donald, I think he either a) mows Graham Henry's lawns or b)Has naked photos of Graham henry as blackmail.

We have been there and done that with Donald and time and time again he has proven that when the pressure is on he falls apart..the S14 final a few years ago he looked like a deer in the headlights, and then at the Hong Kong bledisloe he was falling apart until they yanked him for Carter....I would have taken Slade or Cruden along if we are talking about a development tour..we already know Donald is not up to being the AB's orange boy.

[mr selfdestruct]

Is that it? One All Black start where he didn't do well and he doesn't deserve another chance ever again, even if he's improved since then? Judging him on one Test start 2 years ago is a bit rough isn't it?

[xor]

Whatever he did was enough to get dropped up until now.

[Phrack]

Pretty sure Donald has been injured which would have excluded him from selection.

Do you think they would have gone with Luke McAlister if he wasn't injured?

[herp]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

Is that it? One All Black start where he didn't do well and he doesn't deserve another chance ever again, even if he's improved since then? Judging him on one Test start 2 years ago is a bit rough isn't it?

He's a great Domestic and Super club rugby player definitely, but every test I've seen him play in he's been garbage.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by herp

He's a great Domestic and Super club rugby player definitely, but every test I've seen him play in he's been garbage.

You mean all those Tri Nations Test matches that we lost last year when the whole team was playing like garbage? Hardly something to measure him by.

[_Incubus_]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

You mean all those Tri Nations Test matches that we lost last year when the whole team was playing like garbage? Hardly something to measure him by.

Pretty much yeah, he got dropped for a reason and he's not good enough, they should have taken either Cruden or preferably Slade to develop a youngster.

Donald plays well in games that dont matter...when the pressure is on he cant carry that form with him into the test match or big game arena. The S14 final is a great example, white hot one week and torn apart and making bad decisions the next against the bulls.

He's just one that I dont think is good enough for the black jersey...Toeava is another, I honestly dont think I have seen 3 passes in a row stick in his hands at test match level, and he seems to 'demand' selection when he's not sitting on the sideline injured..

[mr selfdestruct]

You must be joking me. Are you saying that Donald is the reason the Chiefs lost to the Bulls? Are you trying to say the other 14 players played really well? They were done over by a far superior team all over the park, I dunno how you can heap all the blame on Donald.

You obviously didn't watch the last 5 Test matches Toeava played in before he had to get his surgery. I'm a big fan of his and his biggest critic and I make a point of counting every single fumble he makes. He made two in his last 5 Tests, that's a pretty good ratio if you ask me. He's matured and improved so many areas of his game and you can't fault his versatility, he's a must have in the squad.

Unfortunately not every new All Black is going to play like Israel Dagg did on debut and for some of them it can take a while to get up to the mark with the speed and collisions in a Test match.

There would have been a risk taking Slade or Donald, they picked the one who is in the best form and who has the most experience, let's hope it works out.

[_Incubus_]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

You must be joking me. Are you saying that Donald is the reason the Chiefs lost to the Bulls? Are you trying to say the other 14 players played really well? They were done over by a far superior team all over the park, I dunno how you can heap all the blame on Donald.

You obviously didn't watch the last 5 Test matches Toeava played in before he had to get his surgery. I'm a big fan of his and his biggest critic and I make a point of counting every single fumble he makes. He made two in his last 5 Tests, that's a pretty good ratio if you ask me. He's matured and improved so many areas of his game and you can't fault his versatility, he's a must have in the squad.

Unfortunately not every new All Black is going to play like Israel Dagg did on debut and for some of them it can take a while to get up to the mark with the speed and collisions in a Test match.

There would have been a risk taking Slade or Donald, they picked the one who is in the best form and who has the most experience, let's hope it works out.

No I'm not saying that Donald is the reason they lost to the Bulls, I definitely think it was a major contribution, his game was waaaay off that night and the Bulls played well, and Donald's decision making was poor.

My point with Toeava is I think he is another Donald, another player who does not play well at the international level.

Why would it have been a risk taking a young guy that pretty much took over a test that was falling apart and turned it around to a last gasp win against the Wallabies? I'd put him in my 30 man squad ahead of Donald. With Donald we have been there and done that.

I just noticed that Rokocoko got back in the squad...he seriously must have a photo of Hansen naked with Henry to keep being selected. Not someone I'd have in my 30. Very glad to see Gear in though.

[mr selfdestruct]

So Slade had a good 20 minutes, therefore demands selection? He just looked better than Cruden which let's face it, wouldn't have been hard. You could have put Stephen Brett in for that 20 minutes and he would have looked like he single handedly won the match too.

You obviously didn't see the last 5 Tests Toeava played in, he was outstanding, didn't put a foot wrong.

Donald is a player that takes a lot of risks. When they come off he looks legendary, when they don't, people like you say he makes poor decisions. In that Bulls final he kept kicking in behind the Bulls defense and we were losing possession but he was doing it because they kept rushing us. They stopped rushing us and Mills was able to link up with him and score a try. Mills looks good, Donald looks bad but he effectively set it up earlier in the match by changing the Bulls defensive pattern.

Donald kicked a grubber for Mills to score a try 2 weeks ago, if Mills hadn't scored the try, it would have been a poor decision by Donald wouldn't it? Donald kicked ahead off his knee to score an awesome try two weeks ago but he could have held onto the ball. If it had rolled into touch it would have been a bad decision right?

You have to take risks, some time they come off, sometimes they don't. You can't condemn a player for taking risks sometimes, I agree they have to be calculated but sometimes they can turn a game on it's head that you would have lost if you played it safe.

Now you're a Joe Rocks hater too?! What did he do wrong in the last 3 Tri Nations games that got up ya nose?

[herp]

If by "Donald takes risks" you mean "Donald runs around like a headless chicken having brain explosions every time he touches it" then I agree 100%.

[JiggaRoll]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

So Slade had a good 20 minutes, therefore demands selection? He just looked better than Cruden which let's face it, wouldn't have been hard. You could have put Stephen Brett in for that 20 minutes and he would have looked like he single handedly won the match too.

I think your Donald blinkers are making your judgement of Slade's performance a little harsh. Don't think anyone is saying he came on and won the match for us. The dude came on in his début match, 20 mins to go with his side down 22-9 and played a solid game in a pressure situation. Many people probably took this as a good indicator that he can at least handle that level of rugby.

Hopefully they start Donald for a few of the big matches so we can see if he really has improved his game like you say.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by JiggaRoll

Hopefully they start Donald for a few of the big matches so we can see if he really has improved his game like you say.

I agree, he's only ever started one match and that was against Australia with Carter at 12 which didn't work and Carter reverted to 10 and Nonu/Smith at 12/13.

We won't get any indication of whether he's up for it now by playing any of the Northern Hemisphere teams really.

Slade was good in that 20 minutes but that's all it was, 20 mins. All I'm saying is I don't think 20 mins is enough to go on to commit him to such a pivotal position for the next 5 Test matches and he's played at 10 bugger all in the ITM Cup. If he'd played at 10 for Canterbury for the whole season it may have been different.

[xor]

Jesus mr selfdestruct, did Stephen Donald sign a rugby ball for you?

[xor]

I'll be looking forward to see what the AB's do with SBW. He's bigger than a flanker!

[QWERTY?]

he knows that only the most awesome of folk come from waiuku.

[SickBo@Work]

Read somewhere Donald had bulked up to 104kgs?

[QWERTY?]

yeh saw that in the herald, hes bigger, faster, better.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by xor

Jesus mr selfdestruct, did Stephen Donald sign a rugby ball for you?

No. I just find it funny how all All Blacks fans are so cut throat about players, gotta be the best in your position on debut or you're out, no leeway. A bad day is inexcusable, no 2nd chances.

[Deadmeat]

Originally Posted by mr selfdestruct

Now you're a Joe Rocks hater too?! What did he do wrong in the last 3 Tri Nations games that got up ya nose?

I'm a roko hater not because he's done anything wrong but because i'm wet for a Gear / Jane manbaby 3 way...

[Lord Pidgington]

Slade's got Canterbury clutch and should have been the chosen #10 to work towards being DC's RWC understudy.

All other options are flakey. I won't be putting any money on games where DC ain't starting.

[mr selfdestruct]

Originally Posted by Lord Pidgington

Slade's got Canterbury clutch and should have been the chosen #10 to work towards being DC's RWC understudy.

All other options are flakey. I won't be putting any money on games where DC ain't starting.

Yeah bro Slade was awesome against Waikato, I especially liked his line break where he kicked the ball straight into Anesi's hands and his 6 clearance kicks that got charged down or went straight into touch.