All Blacks vs Wallabies 3

mr selfdestruct · 16th September 2009, 14:01

1. Tony Woodcock (57 Tests)
2. Andrew Hore (42)
3. Neemia Tialata (36)
4. Brad Thorn (32)
5. Tom Donnelly
6. Adam Thomson (11)
7. Richie McCaw – captain (75)
8. Kieran Read (11)
9. Jimmy Cowan (27)
10. Dan Carter (61)
11. Josevata Rokocoko (59)
12. Ma’a Nonu (41)
13. Isaia Toeava (25)
14. Cory Jane (6)
15. Mils Muliaina (76)

Reserves:

16. Aled de Malmanche (1)
17. John Afoa (19)
18. Jason Eaton (12)
19. Rodney So’oialo (59)
20. Brendon Leonard (11)
21. Stephen Donald (16)
22. Hosea Gear (1)

BoyWonder · 16th September 2009, 18:46

Tom Donnelly, I would just like you to know that we are all counting on you.

Pimp-X · 16th September 2009, 21:26

Glad to see Jane and Toeava starting.

Would like to see Gear starting.

Stephen Donald and Brendon Leonard on the bench, blowing each others frumpet - right where they should be.

This shit's looking up finally eh wot eh wot?

Griven · 17th September 2009, 10:05

Our backline is screwed if Nonu doesnt drop it, Toeava will and if by some miracle it makes it past those 2 it will end up in Joe's hands then on the ground shortly after. I predict our only backline try will be a Carter kick-pass to Jane.

Clearly they are blaming the lifters and lineout callers for our woes here and Franks and Ross are the scape goats. So our best open play lock is not even in the 22. Not sure what Kaino did to get dropped for Thompson but Read deserved the boot more if they have such a hardon for getting him into the team. Ross should at the least be on the bench considering how much a positive influence Eaton has been off the bench as of late. Not even going to comment on playing Tialata who's been shit all year much in the Rokokoko vein.

blynk · 17th September 2009, 14:16

Thomson is probably better in the lineout than Kaino, and that is really what they going for.
The problem is that we are not playing SA this week. We are playing Oz, just by that we should do better in the lineouts. I wouldn't change everything just to get the line out to work but screws up general play.

Talking about the lineouts though, I hate to say it but what about ditching Thorn. He doesn't really rate in the lineouts, he's one of these guys that is probably quite a work horse, but hasn't really stood out much (to me).
Maybe they should have put Thorn on the bench to come in with some impact & had Ross and someone.

Rokocoko had a way better game catching the ball last week. He took some pretty good catches and a couple at speed. He did drop a couple when Habana slammed into him, but I don't put that down to his handling.

xor · 17th September 2009, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

Talking about the lineouts though, I hate to say it but what about ditching Thorn. He doesn't really rate in the lineouts, he's one of these guys that is probably quite a work horse, but hasn't really stood out much (to me).

Agreed. There's still 2years to go until the World Cup and he's already an old fulla. He's more of a flanker than a lock.

Australia to win +7

Helious · 18th September 2009, 19:48

NZ to absolutely dick Aus.

12+

Helious · 19th September 2009, 08:22

just a little over 12 hours until kick off. whoot

Helious · 19th September 2009, 19:37

less than an hour to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deh · 19th September 2009, 20:38

cant find any streams, how about you helious?

orpheus · 19th September 2009, 21:20

lol @ woodcock

"fuck this shit guys i want an orange!"

BoyWonder · 19th September 2009, 22:16

Outstanding

Wish they had played like that all season!

Helious · 19th September 2009, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helious

NZ to absolutely dick Aus.

12+

haha, i knew this was going to happen

it's awesome to be right. I fucking can't stand Deans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deh

cant find any streams, how about you helious?

I watched it with my brother at his place eh bro(sky). before i left i checked and yeah, it looked like they were getting taking down as quickly as they were getting put up.

JERI · 19th September 2009, 22:22

3-0

GG Wallabies

Quote:

Wish they had played like that all season!

Yeah I know

Cyberbob · 19th September 2009, 22:23

woot!

good win

wugambino · 19th September 2009, 22:27

awesome effort from the fowards at the breakdown, cory jane was the man to. Huge turnaround wish we played like that last week

badassmofo · 20th September 2009, 01:44

Absolute garbage, scrums were shit, backline was static, kicking was horrible. Still got a long way to go.

herp · 20th September 2009, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

Talking about the lineouts though, I hate to say it but what about ditching Thorn. He doesn't really rate in the lineouts, he's one of these guys that is probably quite a work horse, but hasn't really stood out much (to me).

Thorn hasn't stood out? The guy plays every test like his life is literally on the line, did you not see that chase down he made on one of the (saf/aussie) wingers earlier this year where he stopped a certain try with no all blacks in sight? The guys a fucking machine, easily in the top2 forwards with McCaw by a wide, wide margin.

What I'm trying to say is, how dare you fucking say that.

Kryten · 20th September 2009, 07:55

Fantastic game to be at - only the second test I've been to and both have been complete smashings of Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

I hate to say it but what about ditching Thorn.

Funny you should bring up Thorn. There was a period in the second half when the AB's where defending on our try line and I was deliberately just watching Brad Thorn. He was fucking EVERYWHERE and was getting involved in just about every phase - I didn't see another forward get as involved as he did.

It's no wonder Isaac Ross has had a good season, he's got a bloody good teacher and example of how to play his position right there next to him.

xor · 20th September 2009, 08:48

Thorn is a good player, but is he a lock?
He acts like more of a loosie than a lock. Aren't locks also meant to call the lineout? o_O that really cunfuzzled me when they went with a loosie to call it. It's not hard to win your lineout when the other team doesn't compete either.

I still think the French forward pack would be able to walk right through our rucks just as they did when they came here a few months back.

Good win though. McCaw is seriously a cowboy. I swear he was offside with his turnovers

fixed_truth · 20th September 2009, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helious

I fucking can't stand Deans.

While I don't hate him, I think his record shows that Henry was the right man for the job *ducks*

Helious · 20th September 2009, 12:59

I don't hate him either, I just can't stand him. He's so smug. At least Henry has a degree of humility.

And yes, the record speaks for itself.

herp · 20th September 2009, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

Aren't locks also meant to call the lineout?

No

Oh and take Thorn out of our scrums and we're proper fucked.

xor · 20th September 2009, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by herp

No

Oh and take Thorn out of our scrums and we're proper fucked.

orly

herp · 20th September 2009, 13:44

Yeah I bet you believe only the props push in the scrum too.

wugambino · 20th September 2009, 13:50

Thorn is a juggernaut, he does so much work clearing out around the ruck and tackling around the fringes. He has a huge physical presence and it's no coincidence that the side of the scrum he is on (woodcocks) is often the dominant side.

If I was picking an all black team he would be the 3rd name I wrote down after mccaw and carter.

re Deans vs Henry , it's not an apples for apples comparison given the lack of depth in Australian rugby.

xor · 20th September 2009, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by herp

Yeah I bet you believe only the props push in the scrum too.

haha you're funny. I'd like to take you out for a steak dinner. Then afterwards if things get hot and heavy you'd like to crouch, touch, hold and engage with some anus?

What good is a lock if they don't even call the lineout?

Helious · 20th September 2009, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wugambino

re Deans vs Henry , it's not an apples for apples comparison given the lack of depth in Australian rugby.

fair comment. Australia has a very young side. in a year or twos time it'll be interesting to see how they've matured as for a lot of them they'll be peaking. i'll be keeping an eye on their development, f0 sh0. i still don't like deans ;p

Madman · 20th September 2009, 16:37

wtb players commiting at the breakdown... almost every single time the Aussies turned the ball over it was because there was 4-5 Aussie players and 1, maybe 2 ABs trying to fend them off. So we either lose it or get pinged for not releasing.

wugambino · 21st September 2009, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

What good is a lock if they don't even call the lineout?

I dont know if you have ever heard brad thorn talk but his voice is pretty husky (ah-la steve price, darryn lokyer) and would not be audible in a packed stadium.

wugambino · 21st September 2009, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madman

wtb players commiting at the breakdown... almost every single time the Aussies turned the ball over it was because there was 4-5 Aussie players and 1, maybe 2 ABs trying to fend them off. So we either lose it or get pinged for not releasing.

we were the team in black bro

we smashed them at the breakdown looking at the stats we won 91% of our rucks to their 80% (incidentally we had nearly twice as many rucks a further indication that we took a dump on them)

blynk · 21st September 2009, 10:33

Yeah, I recall seeing a number of turnovers because the ABs powered over. There were a few close ones where Oz somehow managed to keep.

I saw Thorn alot more this week, but how many lineouts did he take? Even with no opposition. I believe it was 1.
Like I said, he is a workhorse and does a lot around the middle, but is not really an option in the lineout. Is his workload justifiable enough?
If our lineouts are 50/50, then all teams need to do is keep kicking the ball out. If others can get a lineout in our 22 and win them, it starts to put a lot of pressure on us.
Yes, it would be a hard call to drop him.

herp · 21st September 2009, 10:49

We were 10/10 on our own throw in the weekend and won 2 from Australia. What are you complaining about exactly?

Thorn got 1 yes, but the other lock only got 2, McCaw got 1 and Thompson got 1. Read got 5. Does that mean Read should be playing lock then as we threw to him 50% of our lineout ball? There are 5 jumpers in our team and Thorne is strong enough to be an expert lifter as well as the height to lift higher than the props. I know I've defended him enough, but these calls to drop him are ridiculous.

And xor is trying to troll with the "he doesn't call lineouts." Noone is that stupid.

ZoSo · 21st September 2009, 10:56

Eaton's two steals were pro. That was a highlight of the game for me, along with Cory Jane.

buckies · 21st September 2009, 11:48

Cory Jane was solid under the ball, but he still lacks the acceleration and pace to be an international wing.

Roko was still average, and should still be dropped. He turned over and dropped the ball a few too many times, and any 1 of the 15 players on the field could have scored that try of his.

I talked about the Thorne issue on Sat night coincidentally. He is an absolute work horse of a lock but is the line out the key first and foremost in that position? I think the line out doesn't matter, provided you have an alternate jumper or two in your loosies to turn to (i.e. Read).

I must say that Read + Thompson is far greater than Soialo + Kaino.

Our backline is still flat and crap. Until that is fixed I can't see us being a champion team again. We scored tries from some individual brilliance, but that match could have easily only been won by 12 points or so (as lady luck certainly went our way).

Kill Roko, get Smith or Kahui back at 13. Keep Nonu at 12. Halfback is still anyone's spot for the taking based on form. Change backline strategy please. Roko replacement will be tough to call. Gear? Masanga?

blynk · 21st September 2009, 13:55

We were 10/10 because Australia did not compete at all. A bit like what we did when we were against the boks. We got 2 near the end against the throw which was great.
I believe we had a superior lineout that Australia, but we all knew it was never going to be as bad as what it was against the boks.

Do you pick a lock for their jumping skills first? That depends on the rest of the team. If we had Thompson & Read against SA, then we would definately want Thorn, however we need to have a back up in case we need to win those lineouts. If you have Soialo (which I don't believe will start again) & Kaino, then I think you need to lineout locks.

Obviously it is a hard decision, you need to way up whether losing lineouts is more acceptable than some of the work they do around the field.
I think lineouts are more important than scrums in a way. You can get some good field distance if you can get the ball out and win against the throw.

mr selfdestruct · 21st September 2009, 17:14

So much talent in Aussie team, just lacking experience, I think it Australia will be WC 2011 champs.

buckies · 21st September 2009, 22:09

Yea boi I'm thinking the same. Wish I could bet on Aus now to win the 2011 world cup, as it'd be the longest odds they'll ever have and I reckon they'll peak nicely by then if they stick with their coaching staff and core group of players.

herp · 21st September 2009, 22:51

You can bet on the world cup winners on betfair.

buckies · 22nd September 2009, 11:50

Odds are complete shit though:

New Zealand 2.36
South Africa 5.3
Australia 6.2
England 13.5
France 15

Aussie should be much higher - IMO $8. I got SA at $5.50 at the start of the last world cup, so considering their form this year it seems absurd for them to be $5.30.

How can we put NZ at $2.36? Granted we're the home nation but we don't even know if McCaw will last till the world cup and still be in current form. Furthermore Carter could get injured anytime during the tournament. If either of these eventuate we stand no chance.

16th September 2009, 14:01	#1
mr selfdestruct The Deliverator	All Blacks vs Wallabies 3 1. Tony Woodcock (57 Tests) 2. Andrew Hore (42) 3. Neemia Tialata (36) 4. Brad Thorn (32) 5. Tom Donnelly 6. Adam Thomson (11) 7. Richie McCaw – captain (75) 8. Kieran Read (11) 9. Jimmy Cowan (27) 10. Dan Carter (61) 11. Josevata Rokocoko (59) 12. Ma’a Nonu (41) 13. Isaia Toeava (25) 14. Cory Jane (6) 15. Mils Muliaina (76) Reserves: 16. Aled de Malmanche (1) 17. John Afoa (19) 18. Jason Eaton (12) 19. Rodney So’oialo (59) 20. Brendon Leonard (11) 21. Stephen Donald (16) 22. Hosea Gear (1) __________________ My real signature is not nearly as legible as this one.

16th September 2009, 21:26	#3
Pimp-X Drunken Annoying Superhero Bastard	Glad to see Jane and Toeava starting. Would like to see Gear starting. Stephen Donald and Brendon Leonard on the bench, blowing each others frumpet - right where they should be. This shit's looking up finally eh wot eh wot? __________________ If there is one movement I could get behind in this world, it would be the discrimination and abuse of fucking idiots.

21st September 2009, 17:14	#37
mr selfdestruct The Deliverator	So much talent in Aussie team, just lacking experience, I think it Australia will be WC 2011 champs. __________________ My real signature is not nearly as legible as this one.

16th September 2009, 18:46	#2
BoyWonder	Tom Donnelly, I would just like you to know that we are all counting on you.

17th September 2009, 10:05	#4
Griven	Our backline is screwed if Nonu doesnt drop it, Toeava will and if by some miracle it makes it past those 2 it will end up in Joe's hands then on the ground shortly after. I predict our only backline try will be a Carter kick-pass to Jane. Clearly they are blaming the lifters and lineout callers for our woes here and Franks and Ross are the scape goats. So our best open play lock is not even in the 22. Not sure what Kaino did to get dropped for Thompson but Read deserved the boot more if they have such a hardon for getting him into the team. Ross should at the least be on the bench considering how much a positive influence Eaton has been off the bench as of late. Not even going to comment on playing Tialata who's been shit all year much in the Rokokoko vein.

17th September 2009, 14:16	#5
blynk	Thomson is probably better in the lineout than Kaino, and that is really what they going for. The problem is that we are not playing SA this week. We are playing Oz, just by that we should do better in the lineouts. I wouldn't change everything just to get the line out to work but screws up general play. Talking about the lineouts though, I hate to say it but what about ditching Thorn. He doesn't really rate in the lineouts, he's one of these guys that is probably quite a work horse, but hasn't really stood out much (to me). Maybe they should have put Thorn on the bench to come in with some impact & had Ross and someone. Rokocoko had a way better game catching the ball last week. He took some pretty good catches and a couple at speed. He did drop a couple when Habana slammed into him, but I don't put that down to his handling.

18th September 2009, 19:48	#7
Helious	NZ to absolutely dick Aus. 12+

19th September 2009, 08:22	#8
Helious	just a little over 12 hours until kick off. whoot

19th September 2009, 19:37	#9
Helious	less than an hour to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

19th September 2009, 20:38	#10
deh	cant find any streams, how about you helious?

19th September 2009, 21:20	#11
orpheus Jedi Knight	lol @ woodcock "fuck this shit guys i want an orange!"

19th September 2009, 22:16	#12
BoyWonder	Outstanding Wish they had played like that all season!

19th September 2009, 22:23	#15
Cyberbob	woot! good win __________________ ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ

19th September 2009, 22:27	#16
wugambino Electric Boogaloo	awesome effort from the fowards at the breakdown, cory jane was the man to. Huge turnaround wish we played like that last week

20th September 2009, 01:44	#17
badassmofo	Absolute garbage, scrums were shit, backline was static, kicking was horrible. Still got a long way to go.

20th September 2009, 08:48	#20
xor	re:Thorn Thorn is a good player, but is he a lock? He acts like more of a loosie than a lock. Aren't locks also meant to call the lineout? o_O that really cunfuzzled me when they went with a loosie to call it. It's not hard to win your lineout when the other team doesn't compete either. I still think the French forward pack would be able to walk right through our rucks just as they did when they came here a few months back. Good win though. McCaw is seriously a cowboy. I swear he was offside with his turnovers

20th September 2009, 12:59	#22
Helious	I don't hate him either, I just can't stand him. He's so smug. At least Henry has a degree of humility. And yes, the record speaks for itself.

20th September 2009, 13:44	#25
herp	Yeah I bet you believe only the props push in the scrum too.

20th September 2009, 13:50	#26
wugambino Electric Boogaloo	Thorn is a juggernaut, he does so much work clearing out around the ruck and tackling around the fringes. He has a huge physical presence and it's no coincidence that the side of the scrum he is on (woodcocks) is often the dominant side. If I was picking an all black team he would be the 3rd name I wrote down after mccaw and carter. re Deans vs Henry , it's not an apples for apples comparison given the lack of depth in Australian rugby.

20th September 2009, 16:37	#29
Madman	wtb players commiting at the breakdown... almost every single time the Aussies turned the ball over it was because there was 4-5 Aussie players and 1, maybe 2 ABs trying to fend them off. So we either lose it or get pinged for not releasing.

21st September 2009, 10:33	#32
blynk	Yeah, I recall seeing a number of turnovers because the ABs powered over. There were a few close ones where Oz somehow managed to keep. I saw Thorn alot more this week, but how many lineouts did he take? Even with no opposition. I believe it was 1. Like I said, he is a workhorse and does a lot around the middle, but is not really an option in the lineout. Is his workload justifiable enough? If our lineouts are 50/50, then all teams need to do is keep kicking the ball out. If others can get a lineout in our 22 and win them, it starts to put a lot of pressure on us. Yes, it would be a hard call to drop him.

21st September 2009, 10:49	#33
herp	We were 10/10 on our own throw in the weekend and won 2 from Australia. What are you complaining about exactly? Thorn got 1 yes, but the other lock only got 2, McCaw got 1 and Thompson got 1. Read got 5. Does that mean Read should be playing lock then as we threw to him 50% of our lineout ball? There are 5 jumpers in our team and Thorne is strong enough to be an expert lifter as well as the height to lift higher than the props. I know I've defended him enough, but these calls to drop him are ridiculous. And xor is trying to troll with the "he doesn't call lineouts." Noone is that stupid.

21st September 2009, 10:56	#34
ZoSo	Eaton's two steals were pro. That was a highlight of the game for me, along with Cory Jane.

21st September 2009, 11:48	#35
buckies	Cory Jane was solid under the ball, but he still lacks the acceleration and pace to be an international wing. Roko was still average, and should still be dropped. He turned over and dropped the ball a few too many times, and any 1 of the 15 players on the field could have scored that try of his. I talked about the Thorne issue on Sat night coincidentally. He is an absolute work horse of a lock but is the line out the key first and foremost in that position? I think the line out doesn't matter, provided you have an alternate jumper or two in your loosies to turn to (i.e. Read). I must say that Read + Thompson is far greater than Soialo + Kaino. Our backline is still flat and crap. Until that is fixed I can't see us being a champion team again. We scored tries from some individual brilliance, but that match could have easily only been won by 12 points or so (as lady luck certainly went our way). Kill Roko, get Smith or Kahui back at 13. Keep Nonu at 12. Halfback is still anyone's spot for the taking based on form. Change backline strategy please. Roko replacement will be tough to call. Gear? Masanga?

21st September 2009, 13:55	#36
blynk	We were 10/10 because Australia did not compete at all. A bit like what we did when we were against the boks. We got 2 near the end against the throw which was great. I believe we had a superior lineout that Australia, but we all knew it was never going to be as bad as what it was against the boks. Do you pick a lock for their jumping skills first? That depends on the rest of the team. If we had Thompson & Read against SA, then we would definately want Thorn, however we need to have a back up in case we need to win those lineouts. If you have Soialo (which I don't believe will start again) & Kaino, then I think you need to lineout locks. Obviously it is a hard decision, you need to way up whether losing lineouts is more acceptable than some of the work they do around the field. I think lineouts are more important than scrums in a way. You can get some good field distance if you can get the ball out and win against the throw. Last edited by blynk : 21st September 2009 at 13:59.

21st September 2009, 22:09	#38
buckies	Yea boi I'm thinking the same. Wish I could bet on Aus now to win the 2011 world cup, as it'd be the longest odds they'll ever have and I reckon they'll peak nicely by then if they stick with their coaching staff and core group of players.

21st September 2009, 22:51	#39
herp	You can bet on the world cup winners on betfair.

22nd September 2009, 11:50	#40
buckies	Odds are complete shit though: New Zealand 2.36 South Africa 5.3 Australia 6.2 England 13.5 France 15 Aussie should be much higher - IMO $8. I got SA at $5.50 at the start of the last world cup, so considering their form this year it seems absurd for them to be $5.30. How can we put NZ at $2.36? Granted we're the home nation but we don't even know if McCaw will last till the world cup and still be in current form. Furthermore Carter could get injured anytime during the tournament. If either of these eventuate we stand no chance.