political correctness gone mad

[fixed_truth]

Lolz. Um yeah that's the thing with non verifiable internal perceptions, people can take the piss.

[xor]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

non verifiable internal perceptions

What are your thoughts on trans-racialism?

[Ab]

A reminder that Kelli-Jay Keen got assaulted in Auckland for pointing out that women need places where they can be protected from men like that.

[fixed_truth]

Yeah, the nazi was all about protecting woman from non- trans men.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by xor

What are your thoughts on trans-racialism?

I think it's a long way from society even thinking about changing the rules regarding race classification.

[xor]

lol, how subjective.

[fixed_truth]

The classification of race is something that has always evolved over time and across disciplines.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

the nazi

Can you please stop with the dramatic exaggeration and taking the "everyone I disagree with is a Nazi" position?

You can disagree with someone without them being "a Nazi". You're just Godwin'ing your own argument, and it doesn't actually help your credibility or make you more convincing. As soon as the discussion becomes about "Nazis" on one side and "groomers" on the other, it's just polar opposites and there is no chance of reaching a sensible middle ground and ending the hysteria.

Being a Nazi is not a necessary condition for thinking biology is important in some contexts. Just like being a groomer is not a necessary condition for being transgender. I don't think I'm stating anything profound here, it should be obvious. If anyone thinks otherwise, go ahead and state your case.

And for the record, I mentioned you not to ridicule your position, but to see what you think of allowing such glaring loopholes when all that is required is for someone to say they are a different gender and society is obliged to accept it.

If rules are changed without consideration for how people will exploit them (because people always do), then the rules won't last long, and any "win" for people's rights will be short-lived.

[fixed_truth]

I called her a Nazi because her twitter profile pic was her/barbie wearing a Nazi uniform.

Also, gender neutral bathrooms. Next.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...VMlRg&usqp=CAU

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Also, gender neutral bathrooms. Next.

Gender-neutral toilets and toilets from which males are excluded. Everybody wins.

[fixed_truth]

I'm genuinely interested in the logistics of ensuring males don't use the female only toilets.

Genital inspectors? Somehow reversing the sex self-identification law which was unanimously passed by government and then make people show their birth certificate to use the toilet?

[Ab]

Maybe it should be left up to women. It’d certainly be a thorny problem. But to even start talking about the real-world logistics requires that we first admit that female-only spaces should exist, which would be the biggest step. Like I said, Keen got assaulted for making that point.

[StN]

*New from Caroma* - todgercam, with electro-shock aversion technology...

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Ab

But to even start talking about the real-world logistics requires that we first admit that female-only spaces should exist, which would be the biggest step.

Parliament unanimously passes bill allowing change to birth certificates
As a society we're okay for people to change the sex on their birth certificate. This to me seems incompatible with stopping them using a specific bathroom, let alone how this would even be possible.

[Ab]

When I hear the word "bathroom" in this context I can't help but feel like I'm talking to a Very Online American person.

[Ab]

Stephen King is cancelled

[Lightspeed]

The problem with considering what should exist is there are a great volume of things that should exist, that don't. Things our communities desperately need, if we care about the wellbeing of all our members.

So we have to ask, why is this one thing so paramount? Why do we have so much energy for this one thing that should exist?

The answer is it's very effective at compelling scared old folk into voting conservative, so a few can continue to squeeze society for all its worth, laughing at our petty demands for "things that should exist". 🤣

There are other answers too, but they still all largely revolve around the interests of the wealthy.

[fixed_truth]

The reason why you're concerned about transpeople right now is the same reason your parents were concerned about gay people and your grandparents were concerned about black people. You're being manipulated by millionaires who are being paid by billionaires, to make sure that you are stuck in a wage cycle for the rest of your life, happy to get the crumbs that trickle down to you.

I really hope these made up culture wars continue to not get traction in NZ

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

So we have to ask, why is this one thing so paramount? Why do we have so much energy for this one thing that should exist?

Just to clarify - is the "this one thing" protected female spaces like toilets, health facilities, women's prisons, and sporting competitions? or am I misreading you?

[Lightspeed]

I was responding to this:

Originally Posted by Ab

Maybe it should be left up to women. It’d certainly be a thorny problem. But to even start talking about the real-world logistics requires that we first admit that female-only spaces should exist, which would be the biggest step. Like I said, Keen got assaulted for making that point.

The one thing being female-only spaces. Sorry, I think I started responding then walked away for a couple of hours before hitting reply.

We could swap out "female-only spaces" for the interests of children, elderly, disabled, etc., etc., and come up with equally expansive lists.

[Cyberbob]

Much like how these conversations play out in real political settings, this is largely a group of men discussing how women would like to be treated.
They're the subject matter experts, and they're barely consulted.

[Lightspeed]

It's shocking how even now women are under-represented in clinical trials, it's only since really the 90s there was a real effort to ensure women were represented in trials at all.

But we're not going to resolve these obvious problems by focusing on the symptoms alone. We need to address the underlying phenomena that skews social resources so dramatically, rather than indulging it, which is what this kind of culture war nonsense is.

Winding down escalating inequality barely gets a look in between all these outrages.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

Much like how these conversations play out in real political settings, this is largely a group of men discussing how women would like to be treated.
They're the subject matter experts, and they're barely consulted.

Ask J.K. Rowling what it feels like to speak up. And she's so rich and beloved that she's almost untouchable. When women have an opinion on this subject other than the opinion that is approved by the transgender activist community, the women experience physical violence and threats of rape and murder. Which pretty much demonstrates that male interests are at the heart of it.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

Much like how these conversations play out in real political settings, this is largely a group of men discussing how women would like to be treated.
They're the subject matter experts, and they're barely consulted.

We haven't even managed to agree on a definition of woman, so please, one step at a time. We can't consult with an unidentified mysterious group.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

Much like how these conversations play out in real political settings, this is largely a group of men discussing how women would like to be treated.
They're the subject matter experts, and they're barely consulted.

In parliament women make up 50% of mps. Old fashioned media like forums definitely not many. New media like TikTok, they're the majority

As of the latest data (January 2022), the majority of TikTok users are female (57%). And 43% are male.
In a similar vein, the majority of TikTok creators are also female (53.79%). While 46.21% are male

https://explodingtopics.com/blog/tiktok-demographics

[Lightspeed]

Heh, it puts the push to ban TikTok in a certain light. "Welp, the security threat!" Nek minnut on some Minecraft forum...

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

In parliament women make up 50% of mps. Old fashioned media like forums definitely not many. New media like TikTok, they're the majority


https://explodingtopics.com/blog/tiktok-demographics

So what you're saying is... females are inherently more interested in networks and activities that centre personal connections and interactions with other people? That sounds awfully like gender essentialism. You might need to have some more assumptions interrogated, citizen.

[fixed_truth]

Nah I think it's more of a Gen-Z thing

[Ab]

You're right, GenZ is overwhelming female

[Lightspeed]

Activist GenZ's might be biased in that direction?

How good is your equity Ab, that you're siding with money in the class war?

You're a working man from what I recall, I can't really believe you're not amongst the most of us struggling with less and less every year. You'd think with technology advancing as it is we'd be producing more and more value to enjoy. And yet, those of us who aren't particularly vulnerable are struggling, perish the thought of the genuinely vulnerable amongst us.

Yet here you are, spinning weak quips for the sake of money? I know, I know, there's the very compelling story that suddenly the world cares about women. So compelling.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

It's shocking how even now women are under-represented in clinical trials, it's only since really the 90s there was a real effort to ensure women were represented in trials at all.

This book will blow your mind:

Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men
by Caroline Criado Perez

All sorts of crazy shit, like women are more likely to die in car crashes because car safety designs and airbag sizes are based on average male body sizes and shapes.

[Ab]

Dale Shepherd, 52, has been weightlifting for over four decades and participating in competitive weightlifting events since 2016. He has won numerous competitions, and currently holds nearly two dozen national records, according to The Global Powerlifting Committee (GPC) of New Zealand. In 2016, he placed in the top two spots at the 2016 Nationals, and took four at the 2022 Nationals. In 2010, Shepherd won the title of New Zealand’s Strongest Man.

On 17 June, Dale will compete in the Day of the Deadlifts competition... in the women's category.

that's fair though because self-ID had unanimous support by government

[fixed_truth]

Ha reminds me of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. There's still an official process to follow i.e, apply to amend the sex recorded on his birth certificate. And even if he did there's rules around competitive sport. It's not like it's something inconsequential like using a bathroom that matches your gender.

[Ab]

Pretty sure he's doing it just to draw attention to the fact that him being allowed to do it is insane.

[Lightspeed]

Reminds me of me when I was a kid. I gained few friends with my propensity of pointing out the absurdity in the rules we were expected to follow.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

I'm genuinely interested in the logistics of ensuring males don't use the female only toilets.

this guy has some thoughts

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/stat...10146909532161

[DrTiTus]

“I’ve accomplished my goals” - Lia Thomas wishes to transition back to male after feeling 'guilt'

[Ab]

As tragilarious as that would be, my Internet content skepticism spidey sense is screaming “faaaaake”.

[DrTiTus]

Yes, it most likely is a poor imitation of the truth, if we consider objective reality. But it's dressed up as a real article, and it kinda sounds like a real article, even if you can tell it's not. You might be confusing "fake" with "not true", and one is determined by logic and evidence, while the other is determined by society. It might be "not true", but it's still a real news article. What is a real news article anyway? In some cases, articles contain both true and not true statements. This is clearly evidence that truth is a spectrum and can be decided arbitrarily.

Since news is decided by society and the internet is part of society, if the internet presents something as a real news article, it ought to be accepted as real. News articles are just social constructs. They are just a human behaviour and can be written by anyone however they wish. Logic and evidence are something different. You're just stuck in the past, clinging to outdated traditions, and fake news is sick of being invisible and treated like a fraud or somehow dangerous. Fake news is news! Fake news has always existed, it was just ignored by those in charge - why won't you accept fake news as news? Look back in history - many primitive cultures had stories which were not true that were accepted as real. If that's not a fucking slam dunk as to why fake news should be treated the same as real news, well then you must be a bigot.

Fake news is news! Fake news is news! Fake news articles deserve the same recognition as all articles!

[Ab]

+1 for effort, -1 for not using the words “symbol”, “simulacrum”, or “Irigaray”