political correctness gone mad

[Ab]

Dee Snider is cancelled

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/...d-by-sf-pride/

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by Ab

Dee Snider is cancelled

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/...d-by-sf-pride/

I bet he's not gonna take it...

[fixed_truth]

Neil Degrasse Tyson with some insightful commentary on gender identity

[Ab]

Male cyclist accuses British Cycling of genocide for blocking him from women’s competition

https://flip.it/RirBwv

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Neil Degrasse Tyson with some insightful commentary on gender identity

Why didn't Neil argue that just saying you're a woman makes you a woman?

He seems to be deferring to testing for some sort of scientific basis of fairness. He's /not/ advocating for self-selection. He's advocating for fairness, just on a different basis (he suggested testosterone). He said that fairness is what makes things interesting. On that part I agree. He's entitled to his opinion, and his opinion might not be the most popular, but sure, let's allow it.

And now what?

He didn't say men can become women. He said he can determine who's a woman based on their hair/clothes/upper lip. He didn't mention hand size, which I might suggest is a good basis for knowing who has man hands and who doesn't. He almost said that wearing long earrings and having long hair makes you a woman, but at the same time didn't. He just said he doesn't care.

But anyway, thanks for sharing. Everyone's opinion matters. None are necessarily superior. Some dude with experience in astrophysics is not an expert in gender or social fairness by way of his star studies. Just like his vaccine takes were bad and many people groaned when he spoke up with his "yay science but I'm a fucktard" views. That's cool. People are allowed to be wrong, even if they're experts in other things.

[fixed_truth]

I think that you've missed some of what he's said. He's saying that when we look a someone and decide if they are a man or woman it's not necessarily based on some direct manifestation of their sex, it's more about how they present themselves. Also he specifically responds to the hosts statement that today people being born male can say "I believe I'm a woman". He clearly states that people should be free to decide where they sit on the man/woman gender spectrum.
With sports yes he's exploring if whether sex is the fairest categorisation.

[DrTiTus]

Have you seen the movie "Kinky Boots"? It's a good movie, IMHO, and is based on a true story relating to how drag performers couldn't wear women's shoes because they weren't built for the shape of men's feet and couldn't support their larger mass.

I think it's a more useful story than Neil's reckons, because it is about acceptance/tolerance, as well as pointing out that men are not the same as women. That's my position. I don't care how people present, but I don't confuse "presenting" with "being". If we would simply replace the phrase "I identify as a woman" with "I prefer to be feminine", the whole ridiculous argument could stop going around in circles.

Replace the gender spectrum of "man/woman" with "masculine/feminine" and suddenly this whole problem disappears. I don't care if I'm pissing next to a feminine man. If it's got a willy, don't be silly - it's a man.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

He clearly states that people should be free to decide where they sit on the man/woman gender spectrum.
With sports yes he's exploring if whether sex is the fairest categorisation.

For hundreds of millennia women have been oppressed by men in virtue of our different bodies and evolutionary drives. We, societally, have relatively recently - in historical terms - acknowledged that this oppression is unfair, and accordingly have created protected spaces for girls and women, including but not limited to physical places, clubs, hospitals, schools, and sporting competitions where they are free from the possibility of that oppression occurring. There are places where men should not go, and yes that restriction applies to men who think they're women.

[Lightspeed]

Yeah, that was a shortcut to general equality, general justice. We're trying to keep women safe, while also keeping the rest of the oppression and injustice that a few enjoy. Sanctuaries from exploitation should be far and few between. Not afforded to everyone. Just special classes.

[fixed_truth]

@Dr T. If you don't care with how people present, how do you decide who uses what toilet or changing room?

Also people that have gone through MTF genital reconstructive surgery have no willy, so you're okay calling them women?

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

@Dr T. If you don't care with how people present, how do you decide who uses what toilet or changing room?

Given that I've said that I'm more in favour of the notion of feminine/masculine rather than the false concept of changing what one "is", then naturally men belong in men's private spaces, and women in women's private spaces. Whether you're masculine/feminine, dressed as a fairy or a lumberjack, it shouldn't matter. You are what you are. Since men's toilets have both urinals and stalls, I don't have a problem with inviting anyone to use men's toilets. Men are not complaining about trans-men coming into men's toilets - it's the women complaining about trans-women, so if they want their space, let's be gentlemen and allow anyone into "our" toilet space. Would you have a problem with that solution?

There is also the option of the disabled toilets for anyone who feels uncomfortable/awkward. I often use the disabled toilet if the men's is full. It's never been a problem. Yet I'm not disabled. Maybe if I was at a handicap convention I would avoid it because there are more likely to be wheelchair users, but if there's no wheelchair in sight, the disabled toilet is usually free. And you can roll a joint in there in peace. If someone complained, then yeah, I'd apologize and go to the men's instead. I wouldn't say that I identify as disabled because my vision isn't perfect, or I'm "neurodivergent" or some other new age disability.

Also people that have gone through MTF genital reconstructive surgery have no willy, so you're okay calling them women?

That's not quite how the logic works, it's only an implication based on the presence of penis, nothing mentioned about not having a penis. But no, I would consider them a feminine [feminised] man who has had genital reconstructive surgery. Still not a woman. People are born as either male or female, and that can't be altered. It can be disguised, but never changed.

Breast implants are quite an old/accepted surgery now, yet people still differentiate between "real" tits and "fake" tits. Someone with fake tits knows they're fake. They won't try to claim they are natural and get upset and notify your employer if you point out that they're not real and you can see the scars. Unless you're at work, and you start asking if their tits are real for no reason, in which case it's sexual harassment, and not really anything to do with the authenticity of their tits.

As far as toilets go, again, I'm happy to welcome MtF into the men's and they can use a stall. Or there is the disabled toilet. Or if they're respectful or "pass" as a woman - rather than being all "girlhood" and making a scene and saying "I'm a lady" all the time - then it's very likely women wouldn't have a problem either. It's not my space, and I'm not the one complaining about my space being invaded by non-women.

The key is just to respect others and not cause problems. If a building is empty (let's say you're the janitor) you can use any toilet you want and no one will complain. If someone is complaining about your behaviour, then its up to you to correct/adjust your behaviour. If no one is complaining, then continue as you are. If you are a trans-woman receiving complaints about being somewhere, then I think if you're socially aware you should respect that and don't go in that space. I consider myself socially stunted, and even I know that. Falling back on "I have rights!" is where we're at, but if someone chose to transition, since "choices have consequences", then live with it and stop causing unnecessary problems.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

Given that I've said that I'm more in favour of the notion of feminine/masculine rather than the false concept of changing what one "is", then naturally men belong in men's private spaces, and women in women's private spaces.

My question is to do with implementation of the rule i.e., how do you verify that the person using the women's toilet or changing room was actually born female?

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

That's not quite how the logic works, it's only an implication based on the presence of penis, nothing mentioned about not having a penis.

How do you DrTiTus, when standing at the urinal verify whether you're in the presence of a real penis rather than a prosthetic, so you can ask them to sit down and to pee?

[DrTiTus]

*I* don't because I'm not in the women's changing room complaining about men being in there. If women are complaining about [trans]men being in there, I assume it's because there are obvious [non-passing] men in there. In which case, you don't need to be a genius to know who is a male with a long hair and a dress or whatever. I'd like to think you can spot who is who. If it's not obviously a man, I'd guess the women wouldn't be complaining because they wouldn't know either. And we're not talking about FtM using prosthetics. We're talking about men in the women's changing room who have a real penis.

I'm not suggesting there needs to be toilet police, I'm just suggesting some of these entitled men stop acting like "their rights" give them an excuse to be in women's spaces where they clearly don't belong and are being told they're not welcome. As I've stated repeatedly, I have no problem allowing anyone in the men's toilets. We're not the ones complaining, or at risk, or whatever. Women don't want men in their spaces, but some of these weirdos are insisting they still go in there despite knowing they're not welcome.

What part of "men are not welcome" do they not understand? I think the confusion stems from people enabling their weird behaviour by telling them that "yes, sir, you are in fact a woman". That's not me doing it, that's you. So you're part of the problem from my perspective. If people acknowledged the reality that men are men, and women are women, this could have been solved already.

[DrTiTus]

Sorry I wrote [trans]men implying men who are trans, but I meant men who are trans-women. Easy mistake.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

*I* don't because I'm not in the women's changing room complaining about men being in there. If women are complaining about [trans]men being in there, I assume it's because there are obvious [non-passing] men in there. In which case, you don't need to be a genius to know who is a male with a long hair and a dress or whatever. I'd like to think you can spot who is who. If it's not obviously a man, I'd guess the women wouldn't be complaining because they wouldn't know either.

Look up cis women being harassed in bathrooms because they express themselves on the masculine side of the gender spectrum e.g. are butch lesbians, or have short hair, or small breasts, or are muscular or just dress or look androgynous. These people aren't obliviously female.

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

I'm not suggesting there needs to be toilet police, I'm just suggesting some of these entitled men stop acting like "their rights" give them an excuse to be in women's spaces where they clearly don't belong and are being told they're not welcome. As I've stated repeatedly, I have no problem allowing anyone in the men's toilets. We're not the ones complaining, or at risk, or whatever. Women don't want men in their spaces, but some of these weirdos are insisting they still go in there despite knowing they're not welcome.

In NZ transwomen do have the right to use the bathroom that matches their gender. And outside of extremist groups like familyfirst and voices for freedom I haven't heard of any problems with this.

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

part of "men are not welcome" do they not understand? I think the confusion stems from people enabling their weird behaviour by telling them that "yes, sir, you are in fact a woman". That's not me doing it, that's you. So you're part of the problem from my perspective. If people acknowledged the reality that men are men, and women are women, this could have been solved already.

We've been over this quite a lot and again the ship has long sailed on this one and unfortunately your view doesn't have much support

[DrTiTus]

If women are complaining about androgynous women (who they may confuse with men) in their changing rooms, as you claim, then aren't you in fact suggesting that women don't want men in their changing rooms? If you're saying it's hard to police, then sure, I agree, but the fact remains that men are unwelcome.

I've seen a lot of backlash from NZ women about men in women's changing rooms. Including from a butch lesbian that's pretty androgynous (she might even beat me in an arm wrestle). If you only follow people with pronouns you probably don't see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Let's just blame it on "the algorithm", but I assure you, men who self ID as women are not welcomed into changing rooms by all women.

-

You're confusing legal status with reality. If I self-ID as a woman, and go through the motions to change my birth certificate [which I have no intention of doing], you are saying that I am in actual fact a real woman?

That's absolute horse shit. Legal status and reality are two different things. If the courts find a man guilty of something that he didn't do, legally he's guilty, but in reality he's not. Governments are just as fallible as Neil DeGrasse Tyson. You really need to stop outsourcing your thinking to other people. But given your logical error earlier, I fear you're not using logic, but emotions. We don't want these mentally ill men to unalive themselves, so we let them into women's changing rooms. Tax take for an alive person over 40 years of employment is greater than the cost of an ACC sexual assault payout and they don't usually go to court anyway, ho ho, so it makes financial sense. (Or some horrible reasoning - I just made that up as a bad example of how government policy could work, even if it's absolute bollocks).

I understand that the Government has allowed this, but this Government is absolutely insane. If you disagree with that, then that's just something else we disagree on, but there's no need to open THAT can of worms right here.

But to summarise: men are men, women are women, and people who try to say otherwise are fucked in the head, including this Government.

[fixed_truth]

We're going around in circles now so I'd just like to point out that the self ID law was passed unanimously by PARLIAMENT i.e., all 120 sitting MPs so to me it seems there's not any significant concern from their constituents.

[DrTiTus]

I mean they also said a mountain was a person, and gave him a name, so fucked in the head is about right.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Yeah, that was a shortcut to general equality, general justice.

No it was to give women spaces where they are protected from men.

[Lightspeed]

Oops, my mistake. Equality and justice aren't on the table at all, are they?

We're protecting women not for women's sake, but for our betters to enjoy unspoiled.

What's better than having power over a weak woman? Having power over a powerful woman.

[Ab]

Disney’s “The Little Mermaid” remake slammed for not acknowledging the horrors of slavery

https://flip.it/qQ3_8H

[Ab]

such inclusiveness

[Cyberbob]

"Negative, I am a meat popsicle."

[Ab]

The Baltimore university removed its “LGBTQ Glossary” from its website after being accused of erasing women over the glossary’s strained definition of the term “lesbian” as a “non-man attracted to non-men.”

On Wednesday, the university was backpedaling.

“The LGBTQ Glossary serves as an introduction to the range of identities and terms that are used within LGBTQ communities, and is not intended to serve as the definitive answers as to how all people understand or use these terms,” the university said in a statement on its website.

The university also said the glossary failed to go through the proper channels before being posted on the Office of Diversity and Inclusion page.

“While the glossary is a resource posted on the website of the Johns Hopkins University Office of Diversity and Inclusion (ODI); the definitions were not reviewed or approved by ODI leadership and the language in question has been removed pending review,” the statement said.

The university’s retreat came after blowback from gender-ideology critics like author J.K. Rowling, who noted that the definition of “gay man” included the word “man.”

“Man: no definition needed,” Ms. Rowling tweeted. “Non-man (formerly known as woman): a being definable only by reference to the male. An absence, a vacuum where there’s no man-ness.”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...s-lesbian-non/

[StN]

[Ab]

Dublin Pride caught out retroactively photoshopping trans messages into historical photography in the week of its anniversary

https://twitter.com/NotAllGays/statu...03948387033088

[Lightspeed]

Aahahaha! I love how they bring up Stalin as a warning. Trans using Photoshop, before you know it, Holodomor!

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Ab

Maya Forstater won her case, if anyone is interested:

https://mforstater.medium.com/press-...d-99365009baa1

Six-figure compensation ordered:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1...a8776fcf1a5481

[Ab]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-...ners/102568570

This article contains details of a 14-year-old who found the experience of menstruation distressing, was hospitalised with anorexia, experienced suicidal thoughts, and who eventually did commit suicide.

At all points the deceased is referred to as a boy, never as what she was: a mentally-ill girl.

[Ab]

Roger Waters slammed and under investigation for use of fascist imagery in "The Wall" stage show

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rt-2023-05-26/

Irony is dead

[Lightspeed]

In Germany. That's just something you get into trouble for there.

[Ab]

It's an outrage competition among activists to see who has the most oppression points. Waters has always been a dick, and deserves to be torched for his support of Putin's invasion of Ukraine. But just noticing in 2023 that The Wall contains fascist imagery, and pretending that it's there in support of fascism, is retarded.

[Lightspeed]

I think it's just illegal in Germany? Cause like, they had some thing that happened there about fascism? That's what I heard anyhow.

I guess I'm curious as how all the former performances by Pink Floyd went down in Germany.

[Ab]

You can buy the 1982 movie of The Wall from Amazon Germany



Oh lol this is so meta, you can also buy a dual-disc set including the 1990 Live in Berlin concert from which this shot of Waters in character as Pink making some sort of lifted-arm gesture is taken




As well as the famous 1990 Berlin concert, Waters also performed The Wall in its entirety eight times in Germany in 2011 and twice in 2013. Nobody cared. But now there are oppression points to be claimed. No, I'm more offended than you!

[Lightspeed]

I suppose before then Waters hadn't come out in favour of an authoritarian regime currently engaged in an effort to expand its power militarily.

[Ab]

Like I said, the guy sounds like a dick. Waters has always been a jerk. But this is performance outrage. Nobody really believes that he's endorsing Nazism. It's just more tribal virtue-signalling.

[Lightspeed]

I guess your edge card gets pulled when you stand for an authoritarian regime that's out stealing kids. 🤷

[StN]

Chess?

I am more than a little confused as to how there may be a perceived advantage going one way but not the other.

[Ab]

Off the top of my head:

The best men at chess are better at chess than the best women at chess. Without women-only chess competitions and events, no woman would ever get to win. Seeing women win at chess encourages women to play chess who otherwise wouldn't.

Competitive men are toxic dicks. Women want places to play where they won't be made to feel shit by a toxic dick. Even if that toxic dick thinks that he's a woman. Or, in fact, is faking thinking that he's woman because he's not good enough to win money in a men's comp but good enough to win money in a women's comp.

[Lightspeed]

Report: There’s no College of Satire Writers, so we’re allowed to call Jordan Peterson a hateful little bitch without consequence

The Ontario Divisional Court has upheld the College of Psychologists’ determination that, due to his hateful tweets and comments, training on social media etiquette will be required for Jordan Peterson, that mean, spiteful little ho. And we’re allowed to call him that because there is no College of Satire Writers.

“The college adequately and reasonably considered [that teary eyed motherfucker from the Joe Rogan podcast]’s statements in light of the context of the College’s mandate to regulate the profession in the public interest,” wrote Justice Paul Schabas (our emphasis added).