Argentina to join tri nations?

[Ezekiel 25:17]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...E083027AF100A7

What is everyone's view on Argentina joining the tri (quad?) nations competition?

Personally I think it's a step that has to be done. They showed last year that they can stand toe to toe with the best teams around and with more iinternational matches against NZ, Aus and SA I can see their performance lifting up another level over a few years.

Put the compeitition back to one home and one away game against each side instead of the current 3 games.

South Africa seem keen to see it happen - and they are probably who it will make it the hardest on (travel time wise).

Go Agentina!

[blynk]

I definately prefer Argentina joining over playing 3 games against each.

or
Maybe they should start a competition for some lower teams (US, Japan etc) where the winner will be the forth team in the competition. It will give that team more exposure than what they would only get every 4 years at the world cup.

[caffiend]

I'm generally for it, and think the '1 away - 1 home' game scenario could work well. Although, it would still mean 3 away games for each team, across 3 vastly different time zones; so scheduling (keeping in mind the Super 14 and other test matches) would be very important - especially in a World Cup year.

In some ways I think it would be developmentally better for Argentina if they were allowed 2 franchises to make a 'Super 16' tournament. On one hand it would allow more international experience for more Argentine players, but on the other - try and schedule that mofo!

[farns]

They definitely deserve to play in either the 3N or 6N, they usually only get like 2 days together as the Pumas and often dont have all their best players at once due to the tightass French clubs they play for, but still manage to beat fully professional national teams with far more training and money.

They would get thumped by everyone in the 3N IMO though for a good few years, unless the Japies are having one of their shocker years, so much as Id like to see them here maybe its best for their national development that they play in the 6N where they would slot comfortably into mid-table.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Argentina is in the Southern Hemisphere <_< ... in fact it isn't much higher than NZ. They couldn't play in the 6 nations because they'd be on the other side of the world. Unless they had no home games I suppose.

Sure, they might get spanked a bit in Tri Nations. But that is the way you get better. More games against better competition. I don't think they'd be too far off the pace.

For tri nations:

For us the time zone thing wouldn't be so bad. Argentina is about the same distance east as South Africa is West. It's the trip (or t.v. rights) between Argentina and South Africa that would be a bitch!

But if you just spaced the draw so they stopped over in NZ/AUS for a game then I don't see why it would be any worse than currently. At the moment atleast one team is playing two weeks in a row, one in SA then one in AUS/NZ. So they still have to deal with that travel time.

[farns]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 25:17

They couldn't play in the 6 nations because they'd be on the other side of the world. Unless they had no home games I suppose.

Yeah but pretty much all their players play in the European Competition, Im not sure there would be room for all their squad among the various Sanzar provincial teams and we probably couldnt pay them as much as the NH anyway.
I cant see more than 3 or 4 at best getting into NZ S14 teams (given players of equal ability the unions would maybe pick Kiwis) unless Sanzar makes a quota system

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Yeah you're right actually. With all the Argentina players playing in the 6 nations they wont get released to play Quad Nations anyway. That sucks. Still I suppose the reason they play over seas is because the game isn't developed enough domestically yet (which something like being in the 6nations, tri nations or super 16 would help do).

[farns]

The only reason most of them play overseas is that afaik there is no professional rugby in Argentina, and the NH is where the money is and the forward oriented style of France and UK suits them maybe, plus is prolly easier to get a gig among dozens of Euro teams rather than our pretty competive provincial scene.
It would have been great to see the likes of Federico Mendez (one of the worlds greatest ever scrummaging hookers) play here but I think the Euro culture suits a lot of them better, wheres theres other stuff going on besides boring twats talking about rugby all day. Mendez is a wine merchant I think and one of the hardest bastards ever, on his test debut aged 18! he knocked out the England Lions lock Paul Ackford with one punch lol
Ok so punching isnt big and clever but it must have been somewhat lol to see

[Noodles]

Will this make it quad-nations?

[edit]Never mind, mentioned in the first post, i'll shut up now[/edit]

[Juice]

The Pumas have the worst deal in international rugby as far as fixtures or cash go. SANZAR is unlikely to want to share their slice of the TV pie with a fourth country unfortunately. All the professional Argie players are in Europe and last year there was a proposal for them to join the 6 nations based in France with no games back home. Not sure why it didn't come off but they would easily be top 3 in that competition from day one. Given some decent cash and a professional domestic competition I think they'd soon be on par with the rest of the southern hemisphere teams. I always get twitchy when the AB's have to play in Argentina.

[CCS]

I say no. I haven't forgotten the Falklands!

[farns]

Yep you are right, Argie probably wouldnt get owned in the 3N - I forgot the travel factor - I dont know when was the last time, if ever that Aus or SA beat them in Buenos Aires and the ABs struggle too, so they should win a good few home games.
I dont know how the independent Euro clubs (not centrally controlled like the Sanzar provinces)could be induced to release them for games, maybe the Argie union's cut of the Sanzar sponsorship would be enough to make Argie rugby professional enough to pay them top dollar to play at home.

As far as them playing in SH,Aus,NZ or starting a pro-league in Argie I spose it depends how big the new sponsorship deal is, which has to be split among 4 unions now instead of 3. They have to be lured out of the NH comp.
I dont know how much of a TV market they would bring with them, it might boost existing viewers interest at least short term but rugby is not big in Argie and although its a populous country, maybe the market just wouldnt grow enough there to get a good sponsorship deal and wages for the players of all 4 countries.
Also doesnt Rupert Murdoch own the 3N and S14 (well he pays Sanzar), if he doesnt think it adds up having Argie in, I dont see what pressure the IRB can bring to bear on him or any other TV network.

[farns]

Originally Posted by CCS

I say no. I haven't forgotten the Falklands!

[farns]

Stick it up your Junta! was another beauty from the Sun and not really topical but nevertheless:

[slippers]

I don't think some of you guys realise how good Argentina are.
Argentina are ranked 6th in the world.

Ahead of England, Wales, Scotland and Italy.

On current form, Argentina would be able to beat Australia or South Africa away.

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 94.59
2(2) FRANCE 87.17
3(3) AUSTRALIA 85.55
4(4) SOUTH AFRICA 84.71
5(5) IRELAND 84.36
6(6) ARGENTINA 79.61
7(7) ENGLAND 79.11
8(9) Ranking Climber WALES 75.74
9(12) Ranking Climber ITALY 75.31
10(8) Ranking Faller SCOTLAND 74.23

This proves they deserve it.

BTW the French Rugby season is finished before 3N starts so its really only the last 2 weeks of the UK that would have to releaase players - BUT it would be in their finals. Thats a bit tought.

I dont see it happening in 2008 but it will happen.

[CCS]

It'll be Goose Green all over again.

[caffiend]

World rankings systems in many sports are flawed, and don't show the whole picture, you only need to see the FIFA world rankings before the Football World Cup vs the actual results to see that. USA was ranked at 4th or 5th or something ridiculous, but IIRC didn't make the final 16.

It will be the same at RWC07. I personally believe they won't make it past pool play with Ireland and France in the same one.

[slippers]

Yeh I agree with u on the pool play thing - but that actually confirms the rankings ability to predict results.

Do you dispute that any of the teams ranked lower are worse than Argentina?

The IRB World Rankings have an 85% success rate at predicting results.

Argentina have a shot tho and if they DO happen to get thru then they could go all the way to the final.....but more than likely even if they do get thru theyll be knocked out by the ABs in the quarter finals.

[Ard Righ]

I think Argentina could make a good go at a 4N comp in the Southern Hemisphere. At the moment, I think the most international play they get is in the Pan-America Cup or something.

[slippers]

I really dont see how the argument that they wont be able to get their good players released comes into it eh.

If you remember last year we played Ireland and Argentina BEFORE the tri-nations so obviously they ARE available.... whats up with that?

[blynk]

Originally Posted by caffiend

World rankings systems in many sports are flawed, and don't show the whole picture, you only need to see the FIFA world rankings before the Football World Cup vs the actual results to see that. USA was ranked at 4th or 5th or something ridiculous, but IIRC didn't make the final 16.

But soccer only takes 1 goal and you're out. Like when the random nobody african team gets into the final stages. That is more unlikely in rugby.